A proposal that benefits everyone

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This post has 114 Replies | 6 Followers

Posts 1879
Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Apr 17 2018 6:30 PM

It really bothers me that we are not allowed to purchase older editions of resources which have been replaced by newer editions.  I use BAGD as an example, which has been discontinued since the release of BDAG.  The problem is that there are still many links in resources to BAGD.  To be fair, I offer the following observations:

1. I understand that publishers do not want the older editions competing with the newer editions.

2. I WOULD NOT want the links that originally went to BAGD to be redirected to BDAG.  They are not the same resource, and the original citation was to a specific edition.  Things change and it would not be appropriate to simply redirect citations in this manner.

My solution would be to allow those who have purchased the newer editions, in this case BDAG, to be allowed to purchase the older edition as well.  This way, the publisher is guaranteed the proceeds from the newer edition, and the additional proceeds from the older edition are icing on the cake.

This would seem to benefit everyone involved.  No one would be required to purchase the older editions, the publisher and Logos can only benefit, and those who want the older editions can get them.

I am mainly talking about resources which have already been produced by Logos in the past and have been discontinued.  I do not know that I would expect Logos to spend extra time to create new resources for older editions, but I would still purchase them if they did!

I use BAGD as an example, but I was actually lucky enough to be able to purchase it in an older collection.

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

Posts 353
Virgil Buttram | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 17 2018 6:32 PM

Some publishers have additional reasons for not wanting older editions sold, even if the newer has already been purchased; e.g. NIV1984.

Posts 478
Bobby Terhune | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 17 2018 6:58 PM

A number of years ago I called The University of Chicago Press and asked them about their feelings about Logos publishing BAGD. The fellow I talked to said that he had no problem with that idea. I believe originally when the new BDAG came out, that they asked Logos to pull the older volume.

I too acquired a copy from an older collection, but I think it should be made available since all scholarship from 1958 to 2000 referenced it. 

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Reuben Helmuth | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 17 2018 11:17 PM

Joseph Turner:
allow those who have purchased the newer editions, in this case BDAG, to be allowed to purchase the older edition as well

I like this solution a LOT! I'm unfortunate enough not to own BAGD and come across links to it all the time. As shown by the concordance tool, a single volume of ESS (1Tim) contains 590 citations to BAGD!

Posts 1879
Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 18 2018 4:36 AM

Virgil Buttram:

Some publishers have additional reasons for not wanting older editions sold, even if the newer has already been purchased; e.g. NIV1984.

Do you know what those additional reasons might be?  I would think the NIV1984 would be a perfect example of a resource which the publisher does not want competing with the newer edition.  I don't think I understand your argument.

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

Posts 1166
Rick Ausdahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 18 2018 8:22 AM

Joseph Turner:

Virgil Buttram:

Some publishers have additional reasons for not wanting older editions sold, even if the newer has already been purchased; e.g. NIV1984.

Do you know what those additional reasons might be?  I would think the NIV1984 would be a perfect example of a resource which the publisher does not want competing with the newer edition.  I don't think I understand your argument.

I really like this idea.  It seems like a win-win.  There are so many resources that reference the NIV1984 (even newer resources) I'm often frustrated at not being able to purchase a copy.  What does anyone stand to lose by allowing owners of the newer versions to purchase the older versions? 

Posts 9302
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 18 2018 8:27 AM

Joseph Turner:

Virgil Buttram:

Some publishers have additional reasons for not wanting older editions sold, even if the newer has already been purchased; e.g. NIV1984.

Do you know what those additional reasons might be?  I would think the NIV1984 would be a perfect example of a resource which the publisher does not want competing with the newer edition.  I don't think I understand your argument.

The additional, I'd assume, is more than financial. Credibility of the new (mainly those not-he's). But only surmising.


Posts 353
Virgil Buttram | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 18 2018 8:27 AM

Joseph Turner:

Virgil Buttram:

Some publishers have additional reasons for not wanting older editions sold, even if the newer has already been purchased; e.g. NIV1984.

Do you know what those additional reasons might be?  I would think the NIV1984 would be a perfect example of a resource which the publisher does not want competing with the newer edition.  I don't think I understand your argument.

You can buy the Anglicized NIV1984 or the Anglicized NIV2011, even on Logos. You cannot buy the American NIV1984, you can only buy the American NIV2011. Different rights holders with different motivations. I cannot speculate on what those respective motivations are, I only note that they obviously exist.

Back to the original suggestion re: BAGD, I like it and would like to see it happen.

Posts 2662
Erwin Stull, Sr. | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 18 2018 9:11 AM

I still fail to understand the "Why" in removing older Bibles/Resources/Dictionaries/etc. concerning the word of God. It brings tears to my eyes, and should never happen. In the case of the NIV84, a bible translation that many have grown up on, and many congregations use as their standard translation, it is tragic. I have grown up on the KJV, and our congregation uses that as the standard translation. If the KJV were to be removed, it would be just as bad.

Now, concerning the BAGD. When Logos and I became a family Smile, I was soon introduced to BDAG and other lexical resources, and one thing that I noticed was that in some of the other resources, BAGD was referenced a lot. So, I said to myself "Let's see how much BAGD will cost", soon to discover that I could not buy or save for it at any cost, because it is no longer available. That's not good, and to this day, we can not buy BAGD. Crying

So, all this to say, that I am all in for bringing back the resources, and when they become available, I will save for or buy out right (as I'm sure many others will do). Smile

Posts 888
EastTN | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 18 2018 9:52 AM

Virgil Buttram:

Some publishers have additional reasons for not wanting older editions sold, even if the newer has already been purchased; e.g. NIV1984.

That's true in some cases, but this could be an attractive proposition for many publishers - especially if the older edition is already in the Logos format. They get to charge a little more, and since the older version is only sold in conjunction with the newer edition, sales of the newer edition aren't undercut.

It strikes me a bit like paying for a DVD that includes the "director's cut" of a movie along with the theatrical release version.  I might not spring for the more expensive DVD, but my son - who's a serious movie buff - would most definitely do it.

Posts 1982
Beloved | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 18 2018 3:41 PM

I've been looking to purchasing BAGD for several years now with no luck. I am one who would jump at the opportunity to own it. I'm for anything that FL can do to make this resource reavailable. Is there a Book Suggestion page for this resource?

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.

Posts 344
Leo Wee Fah | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 18 2018 7:02 PM

Joseph Turner:

My solution would be to allow those who have purchased the newer editions, in this case BDAG, to be allowed to purchase the older edition as well.  This way, the publisher is guaranteed the proceeds from the newer edition, and the additional proceeds from the older edition are icing on the cake.

Yes... bring BAGD in please...!

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 18 2018 10:12 PM

+1 Yes for BAGD to use along with BDAG.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 275
Luuk Dondorp | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 18 2018 10:46 PM

Yes

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

+1 Yes for BAGD to use along with BDAG.

Keep Smiling Smile

Yes, please!

Luuk

 

Posts 8149
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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 19 2018 9:54 AM

Luuk Dondorp:

Yes

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

+1 Yes for BAGD to use along with BDAG.

Keep Smiling Smile

Yes, please!

Yes please!

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

Posts 2612
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Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 19 2018 11:39 AM

Yes please

Dell, studio XPS 7100, Ram 8GB, 64 - bit Operating System, AMD Phenom(mt) IIX6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHZ

Posts 2485
Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 19 2018 11:42 AM

I agree!  I see more citations for BAGD then BDAG

Posts 360
Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 23 2018 1:37 AM

I agree also. Having BAGD and BDAG makes sense!  Keep well Paul   

Posts 45
Manuel Maria | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 4 2018 3:03 PM

Me too!

Posts 1982
Beloved | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 4 2018 4:26 PM

I have started a Book Suggestion page for this work, I link to the page here. Show your support by voting.

https://suggestbooks.uservoice.com/forums/308269-book-suggestions?query=A%20Greek-English%20Lexicon%20of%20the%20New%20Testament%20and%20Other%20Early%20Christian%20Literature%2C%20Second%20Edition 

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.

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