NIV Cultural Backgrounds Study Bible

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Andrew | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Oct 25 2018 3:21 PM

Why is this resource "Bible Notes" rather than "Bible Commentary"?  It would be nice if it would show up as a parallel resource for commentaries... 

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 25 2018 4:45 PM

Bible Notes should behave like a Bible Commentary - Study Bibles are the prime example.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Andrew | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 26 2018 8:31 AM

Also, what about "Calendar Devotionals" acting like Lectionaries?  For example, I was expecting "Ancient Christian Devotional: A Year of Weekly Readings: Lectionary Cycle A" to work like a Lectionary...

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 26 2018 2:53 PM

Calendar Devotional have their own daily display format - a bit different from lectionaries as to where they appear on the home page. How, I believe the Ancient Christian Devotional is not tagged with lectionary dates so it doesn't work as a lectionary or as a calendar devotional ... but I'd have to double check.

I checked: Double checked: It is tagged with liturgical dates and tagged as a calendar devotional. Logos does not handle that combination in any way. I have requested that L8 handle this as part of cleaning up the lectionary/saints/calendar devotional mess.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 273
Andrew | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2018 11:19 AM

MJ. Smith:

Bible Notes should behave like a Bible Commentary - Study Bibles are the prime example.

Are there any other forum threads on this topic?

MJ. Smith:

Calendar Devotional have their own daily display format - a bit different from lectionaries as to where they appear on the home page. How, I believe the Ancient Christian Devotional is not tagged with lectionary dates so it doesn't work as a lectionary or as a calendar devotional ... but I'd have to double check.

I think you are right...the Ancient Christian Devotional is categorized as a "Calendar Devotional" but I don't see it listed as a "Daily Devotional"...I don't quite understand.

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Andrew | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 27 2018 11:26 AM

MJ. Smith:

Bible Notes should behave like a Bible Commentary - Study Bibles are the prime example.

MJ. Smith:
[The Ancient Christian Devotional] is tagged with liturgical dates and tagged as a calendar devotional. Logos does not handle that combination in any way. I have requested that L8 handle this as part of cleaning up the lectionary/saints/calendar devotional mess.

Any progress on these?

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 27 2018 11:51 AM

Andrew:

MJ. Smith:
[The Ancient Christian Devotional] is tagged with liturgical dates and tagged as a calendar devotional. Logos does not handle that combination in any way. I have requested that L8 handle this as part of cleaning up the lectionary/saints/calendar devotional mess.

Any progress on these?

It seems there was some progress in changing the datatype to "Calendar Devotional" (used to be monograph) - however, this is no real progress, since this type doesn't solve anything. The reason they can't be added as tiles on the homepage is the same as before: they don't have a YearMonthDay index - as the lectionaries do, and which would make sense for this resource, since the devotions don't follow a calendar year, but the lectionary, which runs for three years, but each Sunday's calender date will be different every year. 

But you can have the RCL on the homepage and link ACD to it in the same link set and have it open in a layout - as discussed (including screenshots) here: https://community.logos.com/forums/p/172798/997806.aspx#997806 

EDIT:

Andrew:
the Ancient Christian Devotional is categorized as a "Calendar Devotional" but I don't see it listed as a "Daily Devotional"...I don't quite understand.
- for this to work, it would need a DayOfYear index (such as Dec, 27). Such an index is not present in the resource and would not make any sense to build: E.g. Easter Sunday, which determines the dates of most other Sundays, fell on March 27 in 2016, but will fall on April 21 in 2019. You'll note that other calendar devotionals which do have that index will read the same text every April 21st, regardless of the liturgical year - this is not feasible for a lectionary-date driven resource, the resource type is simply misleading and should be lectionary - but either there needs to be a homepage tile that understands liturgical dates, or this resource needs to have YearMonthDay index entries built for it to work alone on the L8 homepage.       

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

Posts 273
Andrew | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 3 2019 5:05 PM

NB.Mick:
either there needs to be a homepage tile that understands liturgical dates, or this resource needs to have YearMonthDay index entries built for it to work alone on the L8 homepage.

Isn't there already a Lectionary homepage tile?  Are you saying FaithLife just needs to change The Ancient Christian Devotional type to "Lectionary"?

What type would make sense in order to make Hearing God Through the Year: A 365-Day Devotional a homepage tile option?

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 4 2019 5:44 AM

Andrew:

NB.Mick:
either there needs to be a homepage tile that understands liturgical dates, or this resource needs to have YearMonthDay index entries built for it to work alone on the L8 homepage.

Isn't there already a Lectionary homepage tile?  Are you saying FaithLife just needs to change The Ancient Christian Devotional type to "Lectionary"?

No. The Logos resource types (mainly) are human-understandable representations of the technical indexes applied. 

  • Indexes of the bible variety (which has many various indexes for different counting of verses [so called verse maps] in different bible editions) will be contained in type:bible, type:bible commentary and type:bible notes - this allows various translations and bible notes/commentaries to flow with a bible and to come up in guides
  • Indexes for headwords are needed for type:encyclopedia, type:lexicon and type:dictionary - lexicon headwords typically are a lemma in an old language (like Greek, Latin or biblical Hebrew), dictionary headwords typically in a modern language, like English or Spanish
  • An index for DayOfYear, as discussed above, is needed for a type:calendar devotional - this allows opening the book to a specific date that is the same in every calendar year, such as March 4th. Those resources can be opened from the homepage as daily devotionals - and as discussed above, simply assigning the type will not help when the index is not present in the resource.
  • There are indexes for liturgical dates (e.g. Good Friday, Easter Sunday, Proper 17B and such) contained in some resources, mainly lectionaries, missals and lectionary commentaries. These can thus be linked and flow together, and you can look up the entry for a specific liturgical day in such a resource. Those indexes are available for different liturgical traditions, and the ACD you are asking about even has three of those. However, Logos and Verbum currently have no known functionality that directly applies to opening those in a lectionary tile from the homepage
  • An index called YearMonthDay has been developed to achieve this. It will appear in type:lectionary resources and basically translates the liturgical date into a calendar date in a given year. Lectionary resources often contain those for multiple years - and incidentally, all of those run out at the end of the liturgical year 2018/19 this November. Again: simply assigning the type will not help when the index is not present in the resource. Logos needs to put a YearMonthDay-index into the resource for 2019 and some following years, then assign it type:lectionary.  
    Until they do that, you can't open it directly from the homepage. But you can open a layout with this resource and a functional lectionary, linked together. 

Hope this helps

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

Posts 273
Andrew | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 4 2019 9:55 AM

NB.Mick:
However, Logos and Verbum currently have no known functionality that directly applies to opening those in a lectionary tile from the homepage

Maybe I am using the wrong words to describe what I am suggesting?  I see a Lectionary homepage title option as in the below screenshot.

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 4 2019 9:57 AM

Andrew:
What type would make sense in order to make Hearing God Through the Year: A 365-Day Devotional a homepage tile option?

I wasn't allowed by the publisher to get this resource into my library, so I couldn't check for myself, but since this is a book from the Faithlife ebook store (formerly known as Vyrso), this most probably is type:monograph and has no index whatsoever - correct me if I'm wrong. If this is the case, there is no "type that would make sense" - monographs are the "all else" category and most have no index at all (except for page, which doesn't help at all). Assigning another type would be useless without the index. 

A good idea to make a homepage tile could be a Reading Plan for the resource. 

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 4 2019 10:01 AM

Andrew:

NB.Mick:
However, Logos and Verbum currently have no known functionality that directly applies to opening those in a lectionary tile from the homepage

Maybe I am using the wrong words to describe what I am suggesting?  I see a Lectionary homepage title option as in the below screenshot.

Yes - this works for type:lectionary resources that have a YearMonthDay index. I've asked in another thread that this index be added to ACD.

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 4 2019 1:45 PM

NB.Mick:
Yes - this works for type:lectionary resources that have a YearMonthDay index. I've asked in another thread that this index be added to ACD.

Er... ah... I think you are confusing two things so I hope your request is rejected as it could create a fine kettle of fish:

  • calendar devotionals are tied to the SECULAR calendar which is the same from year to year. These resources run directly off "today's date"
  • liturgical calendar resources are tied to the LITURGICAL calendar which varies in (a) dates included and in the (b) alignment of dates to secular dates. It works off liturgical dates as assigned in the lectionary resources to a secular date in a particular year.

What you need to be asking for is that the liturgical calendar dates (ordo) be split out as a separate entity from the lectionary so that it would be simpler to run devotionals off the liturgical calendar. It would be worth bringing this to the attention of the Verbum staff as they still have to work out the solution for the loss of functionality on the home page. The best solution would be three calendars: secular, liturgical, sanctoral.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 4 2019 2:25 PM

MJ. Smith:

NB.Mick:
Yes - this works for type:lectionary resources that have a YearMonthDay index. I've asked in another thread that this index be added to ACD.

Er... ah... I think you are confusing two things so I hope your request is rejected as it could create a fine kettle of fish:

  • calendar devotionals are tied to the SECULAR calendar which is the same from year to year. These resources run directly off "today's date"

er... yes.... and where's the confusion? ACD is not a secular calendar type of resource, but indexed according to three liturgical calendars

MJ. Smith:

  • liturgical calendar resources are tied to the LITURGICAL calendar which varies in (a) dates included and in the (b) alignment of dates to secular dates. It works off liturgical dates as assigned in the lectionary resources to a secular date in a particular year.
  

I think I know that. I referred to that above. All Logos lectionaries work that way, and assign their liturgical dates to secular dates - e.g. RCL assigns the 1 Sunday in Lent in year C to next Sunday, March 10, 2019. (and to another secular date in other years now gone by - see red box below). Since ACD is indexed to liturgical dates, it shows readings for 1 Sunday in Lent in year C - slightly differing from RCL in reading Joel from the OT instead of Deuteronomy, but other than that it is a typical lectionary order:

 

   

MJ. Smith:
What you need to be asking for is that the liturgical calendar dates (ordo) be split out as a separate entity from the lectionary so that it would be simpler to run devotionals off the liturgical calendar.

I am not arguing against that.

Support for liturgical days would be a great addition to Logos/Verbum. I fully support this as a necessary thing not only for Catholic Christians but for all even remotely liturgically-minded Christians (I read that nearly 100% of pastors in the official protestant church in Germany ["Evangelische Kirche Deutschlands"] preach from the lectionary and follow it in the program of their services - albeit a six year-cycle not compatible to RCL).

But currently, this is not an existing functionality. What Logos built instead was the YearMonthDay index which does exactly what you wrote: it assigns the liturgical dates to secular dates in given years. This is the index missing in ACD to use this as a standalone lectionary resource from a homepage tile just like RCL or any of the others. 

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

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