Collector's has too many CLASSIC COMMENTARIES??

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mike | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Oct 29 2018 9:36 AM

I feel that the Collector's Edition has way too many Classic Commentaries, too many fluffs still. (for me at least)

What do you guys think?

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 29 2018 9:50 AM

Mike, I have most of the Classic Commentaries and it is true that you will probably not use a lot of them although you never know (even if you had enough time in your life) but there are some really good resources mixed within them. Of course each of us probably have a different definition of what is good.

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Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 29 2018 9:58 AM

To be honest I am pleased it is included in the Collector's Library. After all it is a Collector's Edition as the name suggest. Some folks will be happy other's will not be.

I look at the savings If purchased individually but other's I appreciate may take a different view.

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 29 2018 10:05 AM

mike:

I feel that the Collector's Edition has way too many Classic Commentaries, too many fluffs still. (for me at least)

What do you guys think?

You're getting roughly a 90% reduction on Collectors. The Classic Commentaries retail for about $2 per volume (e.g. the 23-volume Ephesians is $46). So in a base package, each volume is only adding about 20c to your price, which I'm sure is worth it.

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SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 29 2018 10:22 AM

If you want a massive collection... not everything will be a gem.

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DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 29 2018 10:25 AM

If you are a true collector then you will iappreciate classics. 

mike:

I feel that the Collector's Edition has way too many Classic Commentaries, too many fluffs still. (for me at least)

What do you guys think?

Posts 1825
mike | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 29 2018 11:51 AM

WOW ..

I counted after purchasing Collector + Baptist Portfolio + P&C Diamond = 1801 resources....

And 750+ of those resources are CLASSIC COMMENTARIES. my goooodness..... (And I thought I already have too many Classic Comms)

I don't know what to say... So sad...

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SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 29 2018 12:00 PM

mike:

And 750+ of those resources are CLASSIC COMMENTARIES. my goooodness..... (And I thought I already have too many Classic Comms)

I don't know what to say... So sad...

So you would prefer to have only ended up with 1051 new resources?

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mike | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 29 2018 3:23 PM

SineNomine:

So you would prefer to have only ended up with 1051 new resources?

Well yes, if they adjust the price without me having to pay those unwanted Classic Commentaries.

It's literally 58% of my total new resources purchased today.... 58 percent of just Old Classic Commentaries.

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 29 2018 3:29 PM

mike:

Well yes, if they adjust the price without me having to pay those unwanted Classic Commentaries.

It's literally 58% of my total new resources purchased today.... 58 percent of just Old Classic Commentaries.

If you're earlier count was correct, it's 42%, not 58%. But I'll wager it's not 42% of the value. As I said earlier, those 750 volumes of classic commentaries will have added only about $150 to your base package cost, which I'd guess was only 10-15% of the cost of your upgrade.

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mike | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 29 2018 11:09 PM

Correct Mark, 42% of purchased resources today are Classic Commentaries.

But I don't think each volume of each classic commentary is priced at 20cents. Your statement is true but only half the truth. The way base package works is that Logos wants to us to assume (and we do likewise) that each resources is priced equally with the others. As in, if I paid $1000 and I get 1000 resources, that means I paid $1 per resource. It doesn't matter if that was the Mobile Ed or the Classic Commentary. Because the image that Logos is throwing to us is that, through buying base package, we can buy the resources as cheap as $2-3/resource. That is the cheapest way to buy a resource, if you don't mind waiting for every 2 years.

What I can't imagine is the amount of Classic Commentaries (or fluffs) in Collectors... imposing the highest burden to the most loyal customers. I don't mind if the Silver or Starter have the the most Classic Commentaries, because they paid the least. But to impose "unwanted" resources to pump up the resource numbers so they can inflate the price, is sad.

Just my feelings.

ps: I finally bought the Ultimate package to support, but that doesn't mean I'm completely happy.

Posts 352
Batman | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 30 2018 12:57 AM

I'm not fortunate enough to be able to afford that edition. I really can't afford Bronze, but, keep upgrading. To be honest, I have never been thrilled with Logos. I knew when I got L3, and loaded it, it was not going to be as easy to use as all my previous Bible software. Sadly, that has discouraged me, and I have not made much use of it in the 9 or 10 years I have had this thing. And the money I have poured into this is ridiculous. And what's worse, the more I pour into the more i HOPE i'll start using it, 
Well, this just may be the version I have been waiting for, The update was included with the subscription rate (no, not free, but, no additional cost) so that was awesome. Then the $57 (with tax) to get the new resources in Bronze was awesome. But, the real excitement comes from the speed at which things are found. Esp. when I want a quick trip to the passage I was looking for. For the past 9-10 years it has been faster to google the passage I want. Translation: what a waste of a fortune spent on worthless software. 
With the search engine much speedier (the blink of an eye) I can FINALLY feel excited that I can actually use my Bible. 
Now, hopefully this will mean I can make use of many of the resources. Of course, not liking to read, I could see me using this in Heaven, and still not using all the resources when eternity ended (ie, with over 2000 resources, I'll NEVER use a small percentage of them). So, yes, I agree, there are way too many (in general) resources. 
But, now that I may actually be able to use the software, as it was intended, I am thinking I might be able to scan many of the resources now, get several perspectives. And that is what this was built for to start with. So, yeah, it is way too much, but, well worth just having it. 

The Collector's Edition would add 6100+ resources to my library. So, in that vein, yes, way too many. But, that's their bread and butter, and steak and lobster, and and and. The purpose for so many Classics, is because it's pretty much royalty free, meaning, it's a whole lot cheaper to toss into a huge bundle. It's to imagine a bundle costing more than this, but, if they used more modern scholarly books it would be much higher in price. Of course, even if free, there is more to cost than price of material. There is labor to "digitize", and "computerize" and update/upgrade them. Labor intense costs a fortune. While volunteers would be awesome, it's not realistic. So, they go the most cost effective way possible. This is why so many Classics vs. modern items (which I assume is what your real question was). 

Hope that answered that one. But to be clear, yeah, I agree, way too much anything in that one. For me anyway. 



mike:

I feel that the Collector's Edition has way too many Classic Commentaries, too many fluffs still. (for me at least)

What do you guys think?

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 30 2018 2:22 AM

mike:
The way base package works is that Logos wants to us to assume (and we do likewise) that each resources is priced equally with the others. As in, if I paid $1000 and I get 1000 resources, that means I paid $1 per resource. It doesn't matter if that was the Mobile Ed or the Classic Commentary. Because the image that Logos is throwing to us is that, through buying base package, we can buy the resources as cheap as $2-3/resource.

That may be how you view it, but it's not how dynamic pricing works. Dynamic pricing works by calculating the cost of the components, not just counting them. Classic commentaries only retail at $2/volume, and therefore they're priced at approximate 20c in a base package. Likewise, a commentary set that retails at $30/volume will add approximately $3/volume to a base package.

mike:
What I can't imagine is the amount of Classic Commentaries (or fluffs) in Collectors... imposing the highest burden to the most loyal customers. I don't mind if the Silver or Starter have the the most Classic Commentaries, because they paid the least. But to impose "unwanted" resources to pump up the resource numbers so they can inflate the price, is sad.

There's another, much more generous, way of looking at this. Public domain resources used to be very overpriced in Logos (unless you bought on CP), and one of the consequences of this is that base packages could have a few hundred public domain texts added, and then say that this was worth $2,000. But fairly recently FL slashed the cost of many PD resources, which means they've got to add in hundreds more PD texts than they would have previously to get to the same retail amount. That may be part of the explanation as to why you think you're seeing more than previously. Hypothetically, in the past you might have had 200 recent works and 100 PD works. Now you've got 200 recent works and 150 PD works. Your percentage has gone up quite a lot - but you've not missed out at all.

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Mike Pettit | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 30 2018 3:45 AM

Some of us like classic works, one reason why the base packages are so cheap is that they contain a broad mixture of stuff, some of which I have no interest in but you might.

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Batman | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 30 2018 7:45 PM

Nicely put, Mike.
That's one thing that makes making Logos (and other products, really) difficult. Some people are extremely content with whatever. Then there are more picky types, like myself. Then there are the extremist types, who it seems are never ever happy (I may be classified here, too).   What interests you wont interest someone else, and to try to assemble a library that will work and keep things floating, is a tough job. 

Mike Pettit:

Some of us like classic works, one reason why the base packages are so cheap is that they contain a broad mixture of stuff, some of which I have no interest in but you might.

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Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 30 2018 8:58 PM

Is your main concern (1) that you don't want to pay for content you don't plan to use or (2) that you don't want this content cluttering your library, searches, guides, etc.

If the former, the answer is that even if you don't consider this content valuable, you're still getting a great value for the money for the content you do consider valuable. It would be impossible for us to construct packages that you'd love 100% of, and custom building your own package wouldn't be as economically viable in most cases. So you have to decide which options serves your needs better.

If the latter, we're working on a feature that we hope to include in a future release that may help with this. It would allow you to send some resources to the cloud and not have them installed on your local machine. They'd be in a separate category in your library and in a separate section in search, without taking up space on your drive, bandwidth to download updates, or CPU cycles to index. (Over time we'd hope to integrate cloud resources into other parts of the app like various guide sections. Eventually, we may explore streaming cloud resources, if there's enough interest in it and it's technically feasible. But initially you'd need to download a resource to view search results or open it in the web app.) This could be a possible solution to your problem, if it falls more into the second category above.

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mike | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 30 2018 10:38 PM

Well, it's actually both. But now since I have made peace with myself, because I know I can't do or change anything, I just accept it. Now it's just the second one.

1. I know it is quite impossible to create the perfect package for both your company and the customers. But I just wish that the Classic Commentaries should be given more at the lower levels of BPs rather than the highest level BP such as Collector. Don't put the burden to Collector's buyers, because those who buy Collector are probably your best investors. That way we're given the sense of "getting better resources" & appreciated because there are less Classic Commentaries in the highest BP. I don't know... Just a thought. Trying to give you a proposal of solution while you still keeping your workers alive. 

2. Now.. this is the real problem. Your company has been around for awhile. And you haven't really thought about customers who have really large library. And there are plenty of them I'm sure. Now, the problem with us is that, 99% of the time, we never fully utilize all of our resources. We're never given the tools to actually explore the large resources we have to connect them with the Guides or Illustrations or Cultural Concepts and what not. So..instead of hiding them I would rather see them more useful. Maybe you can better create official Collections for Classic Commentaries. Or create a better Parallel Passage drop down. (a resize-able one, like you guys did with Guide's section, where you can resize the window)... or take over Mark Barnes' Custom Collections and update them yourself whenever you come out with new resources. That way they're not as bad and we can actually remember that we have them. Remember people resources are growing higher every 2 years... please help us explore them.

Thanks

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 30 2018 10:47 PM

mike:
Now, the problem with us is that, 99% of the time, we never fully utilize all of our resources. We're never given the tools to actually explore the large resources we have to connect them with the Guides or Illustrations or Cultural Concepts and what not.

Isn't this the area that they have clearly been working on with:

  • Ancient Literature
  • Biblical Theologies
  • Catholical Topic Index . . .

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 30 2018 11:08 PM

MJ. Smith:

mike:
Now, the problem with us is that, 99% of the time, we never fully utilize all of our resources. We're never given the tools to actually explore the large resources we have to connect them with the Guides or Illustrations or Cultural Concepts and what not.

Isn't this the area that they have clearly been working on with:

  • Ancient Literature
  • Biblical Theologies
  • Catholic Topical Index . . .

Yes. We're always looking for ways to enrich the content in your books and extract value out into guides, search, and tools.

  • Ancient literature
  • Apparatuses
  • Bibles
  • Biblical theologies
  • Commentaries
  • Church documents
  • Confessional documents
  • Cross references
  • Dictionaries and encyclopedias
  • Ecclesiastical writers
  • Grammars
  • Illustrations
  • Journals
  • Lexicons
  • Music
  • Personal letters
  • Sermon outlines
  • Sermons
  • Systematic theologies

We have a list of other kinds of resources and content we'd like to mark up in the future (e.g., prayers).

What would you like to see us do more of?

Posts 1825
mike | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 30 2018 11:29 PM

First, perhaps integrate those Classic Commentaries into them. Tag them and make sure they appear in your list? (you know when I said classic commentaries, they aren't all commentaries, they often have monographs and others too)

Edit: Example: this... Would you please incorporate these type of resources into your above-list?

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