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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 8 2022 4:12 PM

Most of your "problems" with factbook will disappear if:

  • you don't hit enter until you have seen the top entry in the select list and know you want it
  • you don't hit enter until you selected another entry in the select list if you don't want the first entry
  • you use the search panel for a search rather than the GO/Command box (or)
  • you use shift-enter when you want to start a search from the GO/Command box

Factbook opens only when you ask for it. Quit asking for it and it will move down in the selection list. It's like a punching bag ... you keep hitting it, it keeps swinging back in your face.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Andrew Batishko | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 8 2022 4:13 PM

David Wanat:
I was unaware of Shift + Enter. That’s good enough for me. Thanks for the tip.

The unfortunate thing is that the people who probably most want to know about the keyboard shortcut are the ones who are not waiting around long enough to see the list of suggestions (which displays the shortcut). Tongue Tied

Andrew Batishko | Faithlife software developer

Posts 1684
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 8 2022 6:04 PM

MJ. Smith:

Most of your "problems" with factbook will disappear if ...

... Factbook would put what you typed first .... like in the rest of Logos (and Verbum).

I reloaded the earlier Verbum9 screen copy below, for illustration.

But I also tested Factbook in Logos7. Typing in 'Testament of Abraham' retrieved the phrase as the first menu choice (excellent). And, pressing Enter indeed went looking for the desired morsel (topic, dictionaries, journals, etc). Again, excellent.  And finally, closing Factbook, and reopening it, did indeed successfully retrieve Testament of Abraham. Excellent. Logos9 could not do any one of these steps correctly.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 8 2022 9:19 PM

DMB:

MJ. Smith:

Most of your "problems" with factbook will disappear if ...

... Factbook would put what you typed first .... like in the rest of Logos (and Verbum).

I reloaded the earlier Verbum9 screen copy below, for illustration.

It is quite true that the solution for xnman is not the solution for DMB as they have different issues with different causes. But then you knew that. 

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1684
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 9 2022 6:00 AM

Actually I don't care .... not my work product.  But I agree with xnman that Factbook needs UI work.  It's certainly not prime-time for the market they're intending (TV dinners ... smiling). And 4 years later.

Posts 9190
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 9 2022 6:51 AM

At the end of the day, L10 will have whatever old and new features they put in it and we’ll have  3 choices: 1) Upgrade by buying or free engine, 2) Upgrade by subscription or 3) Not upgrade.  

I guess we’ll decide whenever L10 comes out ๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ˜๐Ÿ‘Œ

DAL

Posts 1489
David Wanat | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 9 2022 7:23 AM

DAL:

At the end of the day, L10 will have whatever old and new features they put in it and we’ll have  3 choices: 1) Upgrade by buying or free engine, 2) Upgrade by subscription or 3) Not upgrade.  

I guess we’ll decide whenever L10 comes out ๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ˜๐Ÿ‘Œ

DAL

Let’s face it. If we were going for option 3, we would probably not be having these discussions on this thread ๐Ÿ˜‰

WIN 11 i7 9750H, RTX 2060, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD | iPad Air 3
Verbum 9 Ultimate

Posts 1275
xnman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 9 2022 7:46 AM

MJ. Smith:

Most of your "problems" with factbook will disappear if:

  • you don't hit enter until you have seen the top entry in the select list and know you want it
  • you don't hit enter until you selected another entry in the select list if you don't want the first entry
  • you use the search panel for a search rather than the GO/Command box (or)
  • you use shift-enter when you want to start a search from the GO/Command box

Factbook opens only when you ask for it. Quit asking for it and it will move down in the selection list. It's like a punching bag ... you keep hitting it, it keeps swinging back in your face.

I'll just quit using the "Go Box" and live with a "handicapped Logos"....  No problem. FYI...  that's what I've been doing... and I don't use Factbook simply because I have not found that it works for me... 

And there are times I know how Saul of Tarsus felt....  lol  ---- "And he said, “Who are You, Lord?” Then the Lord said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. It is hard for you to kick against the goads.” -- Act 9:5-6.

No offense meant....

xn = Christan  man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".

Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 9 2022 12:01 PM

xnman:
No offense meant....

No offense taken -- but i am a strong believer in the virtue of equanimity.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 6001
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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 10 2022 9:58 AM

xnman:
I'll just quit using the "Go Box" and live with a "handicapped Logos".... 

That seems to be a bit extreme! Why, pray, did you not foreswear the stabbing at the return key and resolve to click on an appropriate offering?

tootle pip

Mike

How to get logs and post them. (now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs)

Posts 1272
John Goodman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 10 2022 1:12 PM

Is it not true that the go box will learn your preferences?

ื’ึทึผืึพื—ึนืฉึถืืšึฐึฎ ืœึนึฝืึพื™ึทื—ึฐืฉึดืึชื™ืšึฐ ืžึดึซืžึถึผึฅืšึธ ื•ึฐึญืœึทื™ึฐืœึธื” ื›ึทึผื™ึผึฃื•ึนื ื™ึธืึดึ‘ื™ืจ ื›ึทึผึื—ึฒืฉึตืื™ื›ึธึ—ื” ื›ึธึผืื•ึนืจึธึฝื”

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 10 2022 4:48 PM

John Goodman:
Is it not true that the go box will learn your preferences?

That's what bit him -- he kept hitting enter too early when Factbook was on top which trained the GO box to offer Factbook everhttps://www.ranker.com/list/best-crab-to-eat/carly-kielhttps://www.ranker.com/list/best-crab-to-eat/carly-kielmore often.  This is what I call a chair to keyboard interface issue. Yes, if he held off and actually chose the option he wanted, the GO box would learn to move that to the top.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1489
David Wanat | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 10 2022 5:18 PM

MJ. Smith:

John Goodman:
Is it not true that the go box will learn your preferences?

That's what bit him -- he kept hitting enter too early when Factbook was on top which trained the GO box to offer Factbook everhttps://www.ranker.com/list/best-crab-to-eat/carly-kielhttps://www.ranker.com/list/best-crab-to-eat/carly-kielmore often.  This is what I call a chair to keyboard interface issue. Yes, if he held off and actually chose the option he wanted, the GO box would learn to move that to the top.

That strikes me more of a design flaw than a feature. People used to the pre-Factbook version of Logos get stuck with something they did not ask for and are inconvenienced. 

WIN 11 i7 9750H, RTX 2060, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD | iPad Air 3
Verbum 9 Ultimate

Posts 1275
xnman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 10 2022 6:18 PM

MJ. Smith:

John Goodman:
Is it not true that the go box will learn your preferences?

That's what bit him -- he kept hitting enter too early when Factbook was on top which trained the GO box to offer Factbook everhttps://www.ranker.com/list/best-crab-to-eat/carly-kielhttps://www.ranker.com/list/best-crab-to-eat/carly-kielmore often.  This is what I call a chair to keyboard interface issue. Yes, if he held off and actually chose the option he wanted, the GO box would learn to move that to the top.

Say what you may.... but my way I don't have to worry about "up jumps Factbook" -- Cool.  Any way... I'll probably learn differently somewhere down the road.

And now...  when I do a Search.... how do I get Factbook not to show up in my Search....  hmmm? Geeked

xn = Christan  man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".

Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 10 2022 7:02 PM

xnman:
And now...  when I do a Search.... how do I get Factbook not to show up in my Search....  hmmm? 

Avoid the Everything search! If you select Shift+Enter from the GO Box you can close the Factbook section and it will remain that way. To get it to disappear you need a suggestion.

Dave
===

Windows 11 & Android 8

Posts 1275
xnman | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 11 2022 5:06 AM

David Wanat:

That strikes me more of a design flaw than a feature. People used to the pre-Factbook version of Logos get stuck with something they did not ask for and are inconvenienced. 

Wasn't there before Factbook.... but I do agree with you. I'll probably try what MJ and such are saying to see if the Go Box actually learns how I would like to work...

Reminds me of Microsoft pushing Internet Explorer on everyone.... it was just a nuisance till Microsoft finally got the message... I just don't like that kind of "Marxism"....  make the programs or functions.... let me choose  how they are used. I don't mind the functions or programs being available... but don't like them forced on me.

Does that make me a bad guy?

xn = Christan  man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".

Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!

Posts 1684
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 11 2022 5:41 AM

xnman:
Wasn't there before Factbook.... but I do agree with you. I'll probably try what MJ and such are saying to see if the Go Box actually learns how I would like to work...

Not quite.  Factbook actually preceded the present confusion (Logos 7, which does as you seem to prefer, with Factbook not intruding).

And I don't know anyone that prefers a single choice every time .... they tend to want this ... but then that.  So, the UI design is flawed from the start.  I think they were trying to appeal to first-time users, plus place their 'Fact'-'book' in showtime lights.

But yes, you are a bad Logosian.  Good Logosians can question Logos for 2-3 posts before expressing agreement that Logos is absolutely perfect.  Smiling.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 11 2022 10:56 AM

DMB:
Good Logosians can question Logos for 2-3 posts before expressing agreement that Logos is absolutely perfect

I've apparently never met a good Logosian Sad

FL is damned if they do; damned if they don't. When Factbook V2 was announced it was described as (1) incomplete and like Wikipedia probably never have a "complete" status (2) a move towards a simple interface for the casual users who had been very vocal that Logos was too difficult for them - the eventual goal being that Factbook could be a logical starting point for all their studies and that other tools could be initiated from Factbook. I am amused by the number of complaints that searching for "basic information" is "too hard" when the solution is simply to get the information from Factbook or use the Bible Browser.

What FL needs is for users who don't find Factbook useful to tell them precisely what information they are looking for that Factbook does not provide. For me, that is semantic and grammatical roles which were available in Factbook V1, treatment of multi-word lexical units, and liturgical use data. FL needs users to tell them why they are running a search rather than using the Browser and what would nudge them towards the Browser.

No, I am not saying Logos is perfect. I am saying that complaints need to have meat to them not just whining if Logos is going to improve. I am saying that using the right tool within Logos is often the solution so keep asking "is there a better way to find ..." And, finally, I am saying I am used to settling for less than perfect computer tools because I am unwilling to pay for the high-end product ... I must similarly recognize that Logos as a product is budget constrained..

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1684
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 11 2022 11:29 AM

MJ. Smith:

No, I am not saying Logos is perfect. I am saying that complaints need to have meat to them not just whining if Logos is going to improve. I am saying that using the right tool within Logos is often the solution so keep asking "is there a better way to find ..." And, finally, I am saying I am used to settling for less than perfect computer tools because I am unwilling to pay for the high-end product ... I must similarly recognize that Logos as a product is budget constrained..

I guess I come from a 'customer' world. Not a 'user' world where responsibilty for a good interface presumably lies with the 'user'.  

- I don't remember (any?) comments on how easy Logos is. Their motto is 'watch another video'; not just 'study the Bible'.

- Using language from Dan's earlier comments, they're big boys (actually 'dogs'). They know exactly what Xnman knows (and more).

I think we'll alway disagree on this?

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Jack McCarty | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 11 2022 11:43 AM

When Jesus didn't follow the forecasted May 24, '88, I realized He didn't write that book!

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