Open letter re:Logos maintenance support aka bug supression
Several years ago, Logos was so bug ridden that it was frustrating to use. Many forum regulars complained, Logos heard the complaints, and the quality of Logos development improved dramatically along with the documentation. I don't know about others, but I am beginning to see hints of the old frustration in inaccurate information in the Help file, long standing bugs that elicit comments like "I'll add this to the list of threads in the case" or "we have a case; the work around is" ...,, the frequency with which I encounter small but new to me errors, even the ratio of bug reports to the requests for assistance in the forums.
I understand that Faithlife has many products to support with a small staff. And I understand that several major undertakings -- merger with WordSearch, reworking of Factbook, new charting package, the sermon manager/builder project, darkmode -- have to be straining the staff. However, I also know that losing control of the documentation and the bugs can increase overhead and decrease reputation.
Can we please have some development cycles that place some emphasis on working through the backlog of small errors, that tackle enough of them for we the users to genuinely see progress rather than fingers in the dyke?
Thanks for your time and consideration.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
Comments
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Yes, please!
The other thing I hear a lot is "that bug isn't in the new features we've written for version X, so we won't be addressing it. We need to focus on our new code." Yeah, well, if you're constantly writing new code and never getting it up to good quality, then it will become the old code with bugs in it that will never be addressed because you'll then be working on the next new code.
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Yes, 1000x yes. Fix bugs first or you're building your new features on stuff that's already broken.
-Donnie
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We're devoting a good portion of our resources right now to bug fixes, not just new ones but ones that have been around for a while and are getting fresh attention due to Logos 9.
We'll continue to keep a steady stream of bug fixes prioritized as we move into next year to ensure that we're keeping the quality of life good while we advance various Logos 9 features based on your feedback.
Please keep reporting things you're seeing, new and old alike, and we'll continue to get as many as we can prioritized.
If there's something you think is being overlooked or underprioritized, feel free to flag it by emailing me (phil@faithlife.com) so I can review it with the team.
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Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:
We're devoting a good portion of our resources right now to bug fixes, not just new ones but ones that have been around for a while and are getting fresh attention due to Logos 9.
We'll continue to keep a steady stream of bug fixes prioritized as we move into next year to ensure that we're keeping the quality of life good while we advance various Logos 9 features based on your feedback.
Excellent! [:D]
Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:Please keep reporting things you're seeing, new and old alike, and we'll continue to get as many as we can prioritized.
Will do. [Y]
Is it safe to assume that stuff on feedback.faithlife.com that has received no (public) response from FL does not need to be re-reported? (E.g., https://feedback.faithlife.com/boards/logos-com-website/posts/fix-language-tagging-for-slavonic-and-russian-on-logos-com & https://feedback.faithlife.com/boards/logos-mobile-app/posts/fix-the-verse-selector-for-sirach-ecclesiasticus)
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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Phil while you are at it, can you look at Bible links from Pbb files. On the first click of a Bible verse in a Pbb when opening a layout it does not go to the correct book and chapter in the Bible. You have to click te Bible link twice to get it to work.
Reported this several times and it has not been fixed as yet.
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
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Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:
We're devoting a good portion of our resources right now to bug fixes, not just new ones but ones that have been around for a while and are getting fresh attention due to Logos 9.
Thanks Phil. That is exactly what I needed to hear. I'll watch (and test) the beta's carefully to see the bugs ticked off.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:
We're devoting a good portion of our resources right now to bug fixes, not just new ones but ones that have been around for a while and are getting fresh attention due to Logos 9.
We'll continue to keep a steady stream of bug fixes prioritized as we move into next year to ensure that we're keeping the quality of life good while we advance various Logos 9 features based on your feedback.
Thank you!
Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:Please keep reporting things you're seeing, new and old alike, and we'll continue to get as many as we can prioritized.
If there's something you think is being overlooked or underprioritized, feel free to flag it by emailing me (phil@faithlife.com) so I can review it with the team.
Will do.
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SineNomine said:
Is it safe to assume that stuff on feedback.faithlife.com that has received no (public) response from FL does not need to be re-reported? (E.g., https://feedback.faithlife.com/boards/logos-com-website/posts/fix-language-tagging-for-slavonic-and-russian-on-logos-com & https://feedback.faithlife.com/boards/logos-mobile-app/posts/fix-the-verse-selector-for-sirach-ecclesiasticus)
You don't need to report it again, but you can bring it to my attention if you feel like it's an important issue that we're not prioritizing like we should.
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Lynden Williams said:
Phil while you are at it, can you look at Bible links from Pbb files. On the first click of a Bible verse in a Pbb when opening a layout it does not go to the correct book and chapter in the Bible. You have to click te Bible link twice to get it to work.
Reported this several times and it has not been fixed as yet.
Thanks. Checking.
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Wonderful news. I get the keenest sense that this quality upgrade is really the best unannounced feature of L9 because it mostly seems rock steady. Thank you FL!
The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter
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Thanks Phil, did you see this Cosmetic Bug: Visual Filter Padding - Faithlife Forums (logos.com)
Never Deprive Anyone of Hope.. It Might Be ALL They Have
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Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:
You don't need to report it again, but you can bring it to my attention if you feel like it's an important issue that we're not prioritizing like we should.
That works. [Y]
I'm still building my trust in Faithlife that items added to the new Feedback site, especially the Logos.com and Mobile boards, get seen by relevant people whether or not they get a public response.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:
If there's something you think is being overlooked or underprioritized...
Phil, see: https://community.logos.com/forums/t/196631.aspx
Thank you,
Donnie
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Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:
you can bring it to my attention if you feel like it's an important issue that we're not prioritizing like we should.
I do feel it's an important issue, but for lack of communication from Faithlife, I straight up don't know what level of prioritization this has: https://community.logos.com/forums/t/195544.aspx (i.e., fixing duplicates and other errors in Factbook since the release of L/V9).
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:
If there's something you think is being overlooked or underprioritized, feel free to flag it by emailing me (phil@faithlife.com) so I can review it with the team.
Phil, is there any way you could look into this bug report? It has been around for years. I posted just some of the prior reports to it. I also included an mp4 video that can be downloaded showing it, it seems very reproducible. Many of us are hopeful it could be an easy fix. You can imagine, if someone is working with their personal books, to frequently have to exit Logos or Verbum and restart every time they need to do another recompile is very aggravating. It's also aggravating that there has been no comment from FL personnel at all; I am pretty sure that goes the same on the other threads I posted where the bug was reported over the YEARS.
Is there any way you can help with this Phil? Thanks!
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<Sigh>. I guess I have to lower my expectations on this bug being fixed. I was hoping for at least an acknowledgment given Phil's heartfelt communication on the need to acknowledge and focus on bugs. Speaking as one of the nameless user rabble, it's really not worth it to post bugs, most don't ever get acknowledged, nor are expectations set on whether they will ever be fixed. I guess that's why it's just less frustrating to stop using functions that don't work right - makes you wonder if FL people even use a lot of what this software intends to offer.
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Pater Noster said:
makes you wonder if FL people even use a lot of what this software intends to offer.
Jokingly, I always surmised, the Logos user (there's at least one) at Bellingham didn't get too deep into Bible study. But, it's more likely, like other larger companies, they buffer the coder-group .... else nothing would get done.
I don't bother with Logos bugs too much:
1. It's their work-product, not mine. I say, go for it (top-quality bug production).
2. If they wanted bug-suppression, they'd make it straight-forward for reporting, and then feedback on status (some bugs are dangerous to fix, without more bugs).
3. Besides, counting bug-years demonstrates software lovability!
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Pater Noster said:
<Sigh>. I guess I have to lower my expectations on this bug being fixed. I was hoping for at least an acknowledgment given Phil's heartfelt communication on the need to acknowledge and focus on bugs.
Phil did say to email him about them, and posted his email address. He didn't promise to come back and check this thread.
Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:If there's something you think is being overlooked or underprioritized, feel free to flag it by emailing me (phil@faithlife.com) so I can review it with the team.
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Donnie Hale said:Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:
If there's something you think is being overlooked or underprioritized...
Phil, see: https://community.logos.com/forums/t/196631.aspx
Thank you,
Donnie
This is being fixed. I think it'll ship with 9.2.
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SineNomine said:Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:
you can bring it to my attention if you feel like it's an important issue that we're not prioritizing like we should.
I do feel it's an important issue, but for lack of communication from Faithlife, I straight up don't know what level of prioritization this has: https://community.logos.com/forums/t/195544.aspx (i.e., fixing duplicates and other errors in Factbook since the release of L/V9).
I believe this is still in flight. Many have been fixed, but some require changes that are blocked by tooling bugs. I'll see if I can get a clearer ETA.
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Pater Noster said:Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:
If there's something you think is being overlooked or underprioritized, feel free to flag it by emailing me (phil@faithlife.com) so I can review it with the team.
Phil, is there any way you could look into this bug report? It has been around for years. I posted just some of the prior reports to it. I also included an mp4 video that can be downloaded showing it, it seems very reproducible. Many of us are hopeful it could be an easy fix. You can imagine, if someone is working with their personal books, to frequently have to exit Logos or Verbum and restart every time they need to do another recompile is very aggravating. It's also aggravating that there has been no comment from FL personnel at all; I am pretty sure that goes the same on the other threads I posted where the bug was reported over the YEARS.
Is there any way you can help with this Phil? Thanks!
I see if we can fix this one soon.
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Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:SineNomine said:Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:
you can bring it to my attention if you feel like it's an important issue that we're not prioritizing like we should.
I do feel it's an important issue, but for lack of communication from Faithlife, I straight up don't know what level of prioritization this has: https://community.logos.com/forums/t/195544.aspx (i.e., fixing duplicates and other errors in Factbook since the release of L/V9).
I believe this is still in flight. Many have been fixed, but some require changes that are blocked by tooling bugs. I'll see if I can get a clearer ETA.
Thank you, Phil! I did check before I posted and I observed that most of the first few had been fixed, which prevented me from assuming that the thread was being ignored. I will continue to add to it if/as I find more relevant things to add to it.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:
You don't need to report it again, but you can bring it to my attention if you feel like it's an important issue that we're not prioritizing like we should.
FL has been very quiet about this thread:
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