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Posts 17
The Monk | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Dec 21 2020 1:37 AM

Laudetur Jesus Christus!

I have upgraded to Verbum 9 recently and i was wondering how "Catholic" is the new Factbook tool? I noticed that many of the suggested results this tool offers are from non-Catholic sources, although i have a Catholic Gold library and an Orthodox Platinum library purchased in my software (I am Greek-Catholic :) ).
If Verbum is "Catholic" (in opposition to Logos), shouldn't also the tools it offers be based on Catholic teaching/theology?
Is there a way to tweak the Factbook to check the Catholic/Orthodox resources before the Protestant ones?
I understood from a Morris Proctor Training Course that prioritizing your resources doesn't modify how or from where the Factbook draws its information.

Thank you very much and God bless you!

br. Anastasie

Posts 32095
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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 21 2020 2:26 AM

I don't think Verbum 9 changed the needle on the "Catholicness" from Verbum 8 although the Verbum product is a bit more Catholic than the Libronix Catholic edition. As a Catholic I was taught this maxim ... Lutheran publishers for Bible studies, Anglican publishers for liturgy, Catholic publishers for theology, and Orthodox publishers for patristics (and liturgy). So seminaries didn't teach me to judge "catholicness" by the source of resources. I think of Verbum as ACELO i.e. catholic (small c) - (high)Anglican, Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, (high)Lutheran, Oriental Orthodox. but produced by a quintessentially American home-grown evangelicalism. 

I feel strongly that most Bible study tools should be theologically independent - that theology belongs a step up in hermeneutics so I shouldn't be able to tell a Protestant tool from a Catholic tool. But yes, that is not always what Faithlife provides. We can affect Factlbook's choice of key articles by prioritizing our preferred reference works and by reporting factual errors.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 17
The Monk | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 21 2020 4:49 AM

Thank you for your reply.

Well i am interested in Catholic exegesis, liturgy, etc mainly. I studied theology too (in Romania) and learned that there are many differences between the various Christian Churches. So, that's why i asked that question, because ecumenical studies are not my primary concern. :) 

I understood, as i mentioned in my post, that the Factbook cannot be changed, but what you are telling me is very good news. 

Happy Christmas Holidays & God bless you!

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 21 2020 5:21 AM

MJ. Smith:
I feel strongly that most Bible study tools should be theologically independent - that theology belongs a step up in hermeneutics so I shouldn't be able to tell a Protestant tool from a Catholic tool.

I feel strongly, if Faithlife markets a Catholic product to Catholics (in general), then the product should meet the description (whatever Catholics expect). Or let their Catholic customer know they're offering a largely Protestant update, so the customer can decide.

Granted, in the early days of L4, my definition of honesty was not Bob's (no offense intended).

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 447
Mark Nolette | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 21 2020 8:59 AM

Yes, it would be better if Factbook could be so customized.  If enough customers request this, it may happen.  (Hint, hint!!)  

In the meantime, you can do what I have done and set up a custom layout - or series of layouts - that will do what you want with the resources you specify.  It's a little more work up front, but once done, it's well worth the time.  

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Fr Devin Roza | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 21 2020 12:40 PM

Factbook does modify its content based on your prioritization. 

Posts 293
LogosEmployee
Donald Antenen (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 21 2020 1:31 PM

We've set Factbook in Verbum to prioritize Catholic reference works (e.g. The Catholic Encyclopedia, just released, and Sacramentum Mundi). There was a delay in releasing the former and connecting the latter to Factbook, so that explains some of the lag in these showing up.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 21 2020 1:49 PM

The Monk:
because ecumenical studies are not my primary concern

Please don't misunderstand ... my point was not ecumenical but scholarly - I want the best scholarship available and much of the best is non-sectarian.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 26
LogosEmployee
TL Putnam | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 21 2020 1:58 PM

Br. Anastasie, 

Thank you for commenting. We're working hard to prioritize Catholic resources in Factbook 2.0 for Verbum users. With the upcoming release of the Catholic Encyclopedia, you should see a significant shift in the results you're getting.

As always, if you see something that doesn't seem to fit, let us know. Our goal is for this to be a useful tool for Catholics.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 21 2020 2:01 PM

Denise:
I feel strongly, if Faithlife markets a Catholic product to Catholics (in general), then the product should meet the description (whatever Catholics expect).

Unfortunate much of American Catholicism, many American Catholics don't recognize as Catholic ... and some South Americans come to the US and wonder if the Catholic Church has anything to do with the Church as they know it. In addition, with the multiplicity of rites, there really is no uniform liturgy or expression of theology that is "Catholic" ... some are nearly identical to the Eastern or Oriental Orthodox, some veer towards the traditional Western expression. Which is why I firmly hold that a truly Catholic product meets the needs of the ACELO churches.

And yes, I remember waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting for the first Catholic edition of Libronix, And guessing how much they hadn't understood when they started the project.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 5186
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 22 2020 9:52 AM

The Monk:
If Verbum is "Catholic" (in opposition to Logos), shouldn't also the tools it offers be based on Catholic teaching/theology?

When those tools differ from what is offered in Logos, they are, e.g., the Catholic Topical Index and the pre-created Collections (Catechisms, Chruch Documents, & Church Fathers). Likewise, the Verbum 360 training videos.

Posts 17
The Monk | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 28 2020 3:22 AM

Thank you very much for your replies to my question! Great to see such a lively forum for a great software!

--

I decided to post the question after i was doing a study of the genealogy of Jesus in the Gospel according to Matthew using the Factbook and i didn't understand why the main results, or main article (or how is it called) was primarily from the Anchor Yale Dictionary. Also there were articles suggested from The Oxford Bible Dictionary and some Lexham resource. What really surprised me is that the Catholic Bible Dictionary (one of my favorite resource) wasn't listed, even though it had articles on every name/topic i searched for. Also i have other Catholic resources that i use on my PC and i would really like to first search them, and after i could also check what Protestant authors say.

--

As a Catholic i want and need the Catholic resources first, just as a Protestant brother wouldn't like Catholic books popping up in his searches). I think this is just common sense, not a "sectarian" view. 

--

I learned both from the Faculty of Theology and from my personal studies (including American theologians/exegetes like Scott Hahn, Brant Pitre, etc, and especially fr. John Behr - an Orthodox priest) that you can't separate the Scriptures from dogmatics, Sacraments, etc. This is not about being sectarian, but of really deepen the Faith (for the Catholic faith) in all of its aspects, teachings, history, etc. But maybe this is not the place for this discussion Big Smile

Also thank you for the idea of making different layouts!!! Sounds great.

--

I wish you a blessed holiday of the birth of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ! I attach my best wishes here!

Praying for you,

br. Anastasie 

[PS:The interactive tools were they curated for Catholics or are just imported from Logos?]

Posts 17
The Monk | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 28 2020 3:23 AM

PS: its interesting to see that also Bible Translations are influenced by the translators theology... 

Posts 2773
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 28 2020 6:01 AM

The Monk:

PS: its interesting to see that also Bible Translations are influenced by the translators theology... 

How true!   

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 28 2020 1:46 PM

The Monk:

I decided to post the question after i was doing a study of the genealogy of Jesus in the Gospel according to Matthew using the Factbook and i didn't understand why the main results, or main article (or how is it called) was primarily from the Anchor Yale Dictionary. Also there were articles suggested from The Oxford Bible Dictionary and some Lexham resource. What really surprised me is that the Catholic Bible Dictionary (one of my favorite resource) wasn't listed, even though it had articles on every name/topic i searched for. Also i have other Catholic resources that i use on my PC and i would really like to first search them, and after i could also check what Protestant authors say.

--

Ah, what you really needed to know was how to use prioritization to make your Verbum behave in a way that favored Catholic resources and how to affect the order in which Faithlife tags/aligns/curates resources for appearing in Factbook. The recent release of the Catholic Encyclopedia put it as a primary source of key articles ... above my prioritized resources.

The Monk:
[PS:The interactive tools were they curated for Catholics or are just imported from Logos?]

They are the standard FL products i.e. built by people on the Logos side of the company. The specifically Catholic items are Catholic Topical Index, and Saints.  

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 9
Top8305 | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 29 2020 10:56 AM

It must be said that your firmly held position contravenes Pope Leo XIII's Testem benevolentiae of 1899, condemning “Americanism” in its religious indifferentism and its resistance to acceptance of the Church’s external authority, among other things.
Then there is the One Faith, One Lord, One Baptism thing, you know, Ephesians 4:5. And all that false teaching and false teachers stuff all over the N.T.
Of course, the Ordinary and Extraordinary Magisterium in previous to Vatican II, is also admonishes such a, shall we say, protestantized view of Catholicism.

Posts 9
Top8305 | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 29 2020 10:58 AM

It must be said that your firmly held position contravenes Pope Leo XIII's Testem benevolentiae of 1899, condemning “Americanism” it its religious indifferentism and a resistance to acceptance of the Church’s external authority, among other things.
Then there is the One Faith, One Lord, One Baptism thing, you know, Ephesians 4:5.
Of course, the Ordinary and Extraordinary Magisterium in previous to Vatican II, is also admonishes such a, shall we say, protestanized view of Catholicism.

Posts 5186
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 29 2020 10:59 AM

Top8305:
It must be said that

Actually, given the official Forum Guidelines for the Faithlife Forums, of which this is one, it is not the case that this must be said in this forum.

Posts 9
Top8305 | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 29 2020 11:02 AM

"They are the standard FL products i.e. built by people on the Logos side of the company. The specifically Catholic items are Catholic Topical Index, and Saints."

Regarding "specifically Catholic Items (CTI, Saints), they are rather lacking (even shamedly so) omissions; here are just two of MANY omissions and neglects that any Catholic product or producer should be humilitated by:
Saints, Verbum, Bellingham, WA 2013.

Missing the Feast of the Immaculate Conception, 8 December from the Article on our Lady, (Blessed) "Virgin Mary":

Feast Days
January 1 (Solemnity of Mary, Mother of God)
February 11 (Our Lady of Lourdes)
May 13 (Our Lady of Fatima)
May 31 (Visitation of the Blessed Virgin Mary)
July 16 (Our Lady of Mount Carmel)
August 15 (Assumption of the Blessed Virgin)
August 22 (Queenship of the Blessed Virgin Mary)
September 8 (Nativity of the Blessed Virgin Mary)
September 12 (Most Holy Name of the Blessed Virgin Mary)
September 15 (Our Lady of Sorrows)
October 7 (Our Lady of the Rosary)
November 21 (Presentation of the Virgin Mary)
December 12 (Our Lady of Guadalupe)
December 30 (Holy Family)
March 25 (The Annunciation of the Blessed Virgin Mary)*
July 2 (Visitation of the Blessed Virgin Mary)*
September 24 (The Blessed Virgin Mary of Mercy)*
November 21 (Presentation of the Blessed Virgin Mary)*

Saints. (2013). Bellingham, WA: Verbum.


I submitted this offending omission of a Marian DOGMA on 8 December, 2018. Nothing. NADA.

How is it that the Catholic Topical Index has NOTHING on Redemptive Suffering (Acts 14:22; Heb 12:7, 11; Ps 119:67,71; Isa 38:17; Jn 15:2; 1Pe 1:6-7; 2Co 4:10; Col 1:24 See also Ps 126:5-6; 1Co 4:9-13; 2Co 1:3-5; Gal 4:19; Php 3:18; Col 2:1; 2Ti 1:11-12; 1Pe 4:19; Ro 5:3-4; Heb 5:8; Jas 1:3, etc.)?
My V-Library has 183 references in 162 resources in 128 articles. The much vaunted Factbook has 36 entries.

Redemptive Suffering is a doctrine exhorted by Saint after Saint, Pope after Pope. But the CTI acts like its just not there, not Catholic.

Posts 9
Top8305 | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 29 2020 11:03 AM

The Monk's Question is rightly reasoned. And Verbum needs to get it's act together.

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