Effect of Windows 11 on operation of LOGOS?

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Posts 130
Russel Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 29 2021 2:06 PM

I've never gotten Logos/Verbum to work with Wine.  I use a Virtual Machine to run Windows 10 so that I can use Verbum in Linux.  I also use the VM to remote in to my work computer when I have to.  I always find it amusing that I am controlling my work Windows computer remotely in a Virtual Machine in Linux at home...so, three "computers"!

Posts 250
Randall Lind | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 29 2021 2:23 PM

Russel Taylor:

I've never gotten Logos/Verbum to work with Wine.  I use a Virtual Machine to run Windows 10 so that I can use Verbum in Linux.  I also use the VM to remote in to my work computer when I have to.  I always find it amusing that I am controlling my work Windows computer remotely in a Virtual Machine in Linux at home...so, three "computers"!

I had to install wine 32 bit to get Logos to install but it would not run. I clicked on the icon and it disappears but nothing popped up home screen etc. I am going to need a windows machine. Then it came to me like an idiot Logos web app is the same thing. So as long as you can use a browser you have Logos. The only thing is they need to get audio working. ESV hear the word audio bible says not yet supported. I understand the smart people at FaithLife said we will support Windows and Apple then let make a web browser app then we don't need to invest in Linux or whatever comes down the road.

The web app also helps people with slow computers etc login and use everything you own hosted on their server. I couldn't get Quicken to work either so I will need at least one Windows PC for me.

Posts 130
Russel Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 29 2021 2:26 PM

The web app is also great for Chromebooks.  The Android app works with them as well, but the web app is easier to use on the Chromebook.

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 29 2021 2:29 PM

Randall Lind:
Then it came to me like an idiot Logos web app is the same thing.

Please bear in mind that quite a bit of desktop functionality is not currently available in the web app

Posts 348
danwdoo | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 29 2021 11:32 PM

To bring the thread back to the original point, I'm running Logos on the legit build of Windows 11 and it runs fantastic. Maybe even a hair snappier than it was on Windows 10 (startup). No issues found whatsoever.

Posts 250
Randall Lind | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 30 2021 3:56 AM

Graham Criddle:

Randall Lind:
Then it came to me like an idiot Logos web app is the same thing.

Please bear in mind that quite a bit of desktop functionality is not currently available in the web app

True but, I am sure it will get better over time. I am not anti-windows but if for some reason you don't use Windows or Mac it is a great app.

Posts 250
Randall Lind | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 30 2021 3:58 AM

danwdoo:

To bring the thread back to the original point, I'm running Logos on the legit build of Windows 11 and it runs fantastic. Maybe even a hair snappier than it was on Windows 10 (startup). No issues found whatsoever.

What type of hardware are you using cpu etc? 

Posts 29
John Patterson | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 30 2021 6:18 AM

As usual, MS announced Windows 11 with their usual vague language. "Faster", "more productivity", "better", without any specifics. Because of this, I always wait until after the first major update to the OS before installing it. And even then, with caution.

Posts 250
Randall Lind | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 30 2021 10:47 AM

A tech guy I follow on Youtube figure out how to bypass TMP with a registry hack. This allows you to then signup for Windows insider and download Windows 11 dev. I put it on my Dell Optiplex (Logos PC) and I really like it.  the guy name is Chris Titus and he has a YT channel his site is https://christitus.com/ and it the first article.

Posts 2748
mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 30 2021 3:41 PM

Looks like Windows 11 will probably be a bump free update for Logos. They said there might be some little cross Win 10/11 compatibility things developers will have to contend with but whatever they are working on currently should be supported when Windows 11 arrives. 

Maybe some jazzed up interface things going forward. Sounds pretty good. 

The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter

Posts 348
danwdoo | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 30 2021 11:43 PM

I'm using positively Old Testament hardware for the beta build. 3rd gen 2.2GH i7 from back when Moses led the children of Israel out of Egypt (bought this machine in 2013!). The machine has 8gb RAM (Because it can't handle more), but was upgraded to a speedy SSD several years ago, which was one of the best technology purchases I've ever made.

Back on May 2nd, I posted stats on the same machine under Windows 10 in a discussion about slow Logos performance. The specs at that time were:

Startup: 0.571 seconds
Showing Main Window 12.227

I just ran the numbers again under Windows 11 and received:

Startup: 0.469 Seconds
Showing Main Window 11.111

So not a big change, but this is still beta code and will likely gain even more efficiencies at release. General operation of Logos feels reasonably responsive in all the testing I've done.

Posts 250
Randall Lind | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 1 2021 1:29 AM

danwdoo:

I'm using positively Old Testament hardware for the beta build. 3rd gen 2.2GH i7 from back when Moses led the children of Israel out of Egypt (bought this machine in 2013!). The machine has 8gb RAM (Because it can't handle more), but was upgraded to a speedy SSD several years ago, which was one of the best technology purchases I've ever made.

Back on May 2nd, I posted stats on the same machine under Windows 10 in a discussion about slow Logos performance. The specs at that time were:

Startup: 0.571 seconds
Showing Main Window 12.227

I just ran the numbers again under Windows 11 and received:

Startup: 0.469 Seconds
Showing Main Window 11.111

So not a big change, but this is still beta code and will likely gain even more efficiencies at release. General operation of Logos feels reasonably responsive in all the testing I've done.

Microsoft patched the registry so my last post doesn't work anymore. However, I am running Windows 11 on a Dell Optiplex 3020 i5-4570 4 cores with 8gb of ram. It has TMP 1.2 so I guess they let me install it because TMP 1.2 was listed as the soft floor. I am hoping it will be able to run the release as well. This PC is not slow may be old but it runs nicely. My other two machines will have to stay with 10 or maybe switch to Linux. I will replace one of them with a Windows 11 machine more than likely. I am waiting for 11 to come out instead of trying to guess what Acer or Dell has TMP 2.0 etc.

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Veli Voipio | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 5 2021 5:16 AM

mab:

Looks like Windows 11 will probably be a bump free update for Logos. They said there might be some little cross Win 10/11 compatibility things developers will have to contend with but whatever they are working on currently should be supported when Windows 11 arrives. 

Maybe some jazzed up interface things going forward. Sounds pretty good. 

This is my guess too. Logos seems to use standard guidelines in programming. I look forward to it, with some professional caution.

Now when I am back in my log cabin I checked my laptop. I bought the laptop in the last half of 2017. The checks show that, it has TPM2.0 and the compatibility check app showed it is ready for Windows 11. Normally my hardware is good when bought but it becomes some versions old in a couple of years.

Gold package, and original language material and ancient text material, SIL and UBS books, discourse Hebrew OT and Greek NT. PC with Windows 8.1

Posts 1136
Dale E Heath | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 5 2021 12:53 PM

I've been running Logos on a 10 yr old HP with 8GB, and a 1TB SSD that I installed about a year ago. Very happy with start up and performance. I'll stay on Windows 10 for another 4 years and purchase a new machine then, If I'm still alive and lucid. Next machine will have 2 monitors.

Posts 250
Randall Lind | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 6 2021 12:48 AM

Dale E Heath:

I've been running Logos on a 10 yr old HP with 8GB, and a 1TB SSD that I installed about a year ago. Very happy with start up and performance. I'll stay on Windows 10 for another 4 years and purchase a new machine then, If I'm still alive and lucid. Next machine will have 2 monitors.

I hope since I can run Windows 11 DEV on my Dell Optiplex which has an i5-4570 and TPM 1.2 it can run the final. I have seen a video where if it a DIY computer you will be able to use TMP 1.2 where OEM makers Dell, HP, etc you need TMP 2.0. I can't see how they can have two different standards. DIY means you build it.

It is smart to wait until Windows 11 is out. I have never seen a computer maker etc list TPM as a selling point. So how is an avg user and not a major geek suppose to know which computer has TPM and which version? AMD calls it FTPM and other OEM's (computer makers) call it something else so that's another issue. The location in bios is not clear either. I consider myself someone that knows tech. I am not an expert, but I do help people and know my way around streaming devices, computers, android phones, etc. I have never heard of TPM just researching that since Windows 11 was announced.

Posts 1189
Kiyah | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 6 2021 1:57 AM

Randall Lind:
I have never seen a computer maker etc list TPM as a selling point. So how is an avg user and not a major geek suppose to know which computer has TPM and which version? AMD calls it FTPM and other OEM's (computer makers) call it something else so that's another issue. The location in bios is not clear either. I consider myself someone that knows tech. I am not an expert, but I do help people and know my way around streaming devices, computers, android phones, etc. I have never heard of TPM just researching that since Windows 11 was announced.

I think the very point is that they expect the average user to just buy a new PC. Requiring TPM 2.0 and not 1.2 along with the arbitrary processor generation cut-off (my processor has TPM 2.0 but is 6th generation so I don't meet the requirements for reasons unstated) doesn't make much sense to me unless the point is to help out OEMs by stimulating new PC sales. To my knowledge (and I've been looking) Microsoft has given no technical reason for why they won't allow pre-8th gen processors to run Window 11 (though they're letting 7th gen processors run the developer build to help them with testing).

Posts 250
Randall Lind | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 6 2021 2:11 PM

I was watching an expert Paul Thurott who writes about Microsoft and their products. He does a 10-15 min show every day on Youtube anyway he said They wanted TPM 2.0 in Vista and since no one wanted Vista they walked back a lot of stuff.

Posts 5547
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 6 2021 3:37 PM

Kiyah:
I think the very point is that they expect the average user to just buy a new PC. Requiring TPM 2.0 and not 1.2 along with the arbitrary processor generation cut-off (my processor has TPM 2.0 but is 6th generation so I don't meet the requirements for reasons unstated) doesn't make much sense to me unless the point is to help out OEMs by stimulating new PC sales.

SineNomine:

And, as the article MJ suggested notes, you don't need TPM 2.0 anyway.

MJ. Smith:

read Why Windows 11 is forcing everyone to use TPM chips (msn.com) before panicking ... there is a fair chance your setup is fine.

Microsoft does not require TPM 2.0 to run Windows 11. Microsoft requires TPM 1.2 to run Windows 11. Microsoft requires that new devices sold with Windows 11 already on them have TPM 2.0.

Microsoft doesn't require 8th gen or newer Intel chips for a device to run Windows 11, either.

Posts 250
Randall Lind | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 6 2021 3:46 PM


Microsoft does not require TPM 2.0 to run Windows 11. Microsoft requires TPM 1.2 to run Windows 11. Microsoft requires that new devices sold with Windows 11 already on them have TPM 2.0.

Microsoft removed TMP 1.2 from the documents and also they did mention 8 gen only but now seem to be walking that back. My chip is not listed i5-4570 and I have TMP 1.2 and it runs the dev build from Windows Insider fine but no word on if It will be able to run the final in the fall or holiday season when it is released. I would say a lot of low-income people like me may be left out. Someone gave me a Dell Optiplex 6 months ago if it wasn't for that I would not be able to run Windows 11 at all.

Posts 1189
Kiyah | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 6 2021 5:39 PM

SineNomine:

Microsoft does not require TPM 2.0 to run Windows 11. Microsoft requires TPM 1.2 to run Windows 11. Microsoft requires that new devices sold with Windows 11 already on them have TPM 2.0.

Microsoft doesn't require 8th gen or newer Intel chips for a device to run Windows 11, either.

I'm just going by what's on their website. If you click on the compatible processors link, all of the Intel Core processors listed are 8th gen and later.

Here's the Windows Insider blog post where they discuss the system requirements and their decision to allow 7th gen processors to install the Developer build for testing purposes (while not yet updating the official system requirements for the final release).

Some key excerpts:

"The intention of today’s post is to acknowledge and clarify the confusion caused by our PC Health Check tool, share more details as to why we updated the system requirements for Windows 11 and set the path for how we will learn and adjust. Below you will find changes we are making based on that feedback, including ensuring we have the ability for Windows Insiders to install Windows 11 on 7th generation processors to give us more data about performance and security, updating our PC Health check app to provide more clarity, and committing to more technical detail on the principles behind our decisions."  ...

... "Using the principles above, we are confident that devices running on Intel 8th generation processors and AMD Zen 2 as well as Qualcomm 7 and 8 Series will meet our principles around security and reliability and minimum system requirements for Windows 11. As we release to Windows Insiders and partner with our OEMs, we will test to identify devices running on Intel 7th generation and AMD Zen 1 that may meet our principles. We’re committed to sharing updates with you on the results of our testing over time, as well as sharing additional technical blogs."

As of now, I don't see any more up-to-date info on Microsoft's website than this. If you have more updated info, please share the links. But according to their website, their current system requirements are TPM 2.0 and 8th gen or later Intel and equivalent processors, while they are currently allowing 7th gen processors to install the Developer build to test and decide if some 7th gen processors may also be compatible. The problem for me is they haven't given any good reasons why they don't think 6th gen or earlier processors that have TPM 2.0, 2 cores, and are 1GHz or faster won't meet their requirements around "security, reliability, compatibility, video conferencing, multitasking, playing, creating, building, learning and more." So the processor generation cut-off seems arbitrary.

They're even suggesting that people buy new PCs right on their website in the system requirements:

This seems like what the processor gen cut-off is really about, call me cynical (and a former corporate financial analyst).

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