[bug?] Logos 10 Baptist Gold does not include Complete Biblical Library Interlinear Bible
Thanks.
Comments
-
Kolen Cheung said:
Logos 10 Baptist Gold includes everything in CBL except the "Complete Biblical Library Interlinear Bible" including the OT and NT volume. Is that intentional or not? Thanks.
I'm not sure if there will be an answer to that - sometimes there were some small fixes to base packages in the past. For those who come to this thread looking for a base package that contains the CBL bundle at a significant discount, I'd like to point them to your other recent thread: https://community.logos.com/forums/t/210696.aspx which discusses the Kerusso base package.
Have joy in the Lord!
0 -
From what I just saw before purchasing, the CBL is missing the interlinears in the Baptist Gold, but it’s included in the Kerusso one. It’s a shame the chose to separate the set in such a way. ☹️
DAL
PS. For $44 more you can add the interlinears and more with Kerusso package.
0 -
DAL said:
From what I just saw before purchasing, the CBL is missing the interlinears in the Baptist Gold, but it’s included in the Kerusso one. It’s a shame the chose to separate the set in such a way. ☹️
DAL
PS. For $44 more you can add the interlinears and more with Kerusso package.
I thought the Baptist Gold contained the complete CBL. I did not even know about the Kerusso package. Perhaps Faithlife will add the interlinears to the Baptist Gold to really make the product complete.
0 -
Pastor Cleghorn said:DAL said:
From what I just saw before purchasing, the CBL is missing the interlinears in the Baptist Gold, but it’s included in the Kerusso one. It’s a shame the chose to separate the set in such a way. ☹️
DAL
PS. For $44 more you can add the interlinears and more with Kerusso package.
I thought the Baptist Gold contained the complete CBL. I did not even know about the Kerusso package. Perhaps Faithlife will add the interlinears to the Baptist Gold to really make the product complete.
I think the Kerusso Package contains everything. I’m not able to check anymore since I have both, but Gold definitely did not include the interlinears.
DAL
0 -
Thats so weird! the incomplete complete biblical library.
I didn't notice it wasn't complete. The tooltips aren't helpful either:
I guess I already incompletely completely own the incomplete complete library. [:^)]
L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
0 -
We've taken a look at this and have determined those were accidentally missed. We'll be updating all Baptist Gold+ packages to include these.
0 -
Mitch Snyder (Faithlife) said:
We've taken a look at this and have determined those were accidentally missed. We'll be updating all Baptist Gold+ packages to include these.
Will there be a price adjustment/refund/credit for those of us who purchased Kerusso Package to complete the set?
Thanks!
DAL
0 -
Mitch Snyder (Faithlife) said:
We've taken a look at this and have determined those were accidentally missed. We'll be updating all Baptist Gold+ packages to include these.
Great! And the price only increased by $1.91 for me which is a bargain to have those interlinears.
0 -
Feel free to contact Customer Service and they can process any adjustments based on these changes.
0 -
By the way, could you take a look at https://community.logos.com/forums/t/210696.aspx about the bug that we cannot compare Logos 10 Kerusso with package like this? Both includes the CBL so it would be great if we can do a comparison before deciding which to buy. (I had to manually compare the included CBL within each to find our the interlinears are missing, so even restricting to CBL only is a cumbersome to compare manually.)
0 -
Mitch Snyder (Faithlife) said:
Feel free to contact Customer Service and they can process any adjustments based on these changes.
Hopefully, whoever tries to contact them can actually get them.... I'm over 24 hours waiting for a response to an email inquiry and tried Chat multiple times through the day, each time getting booted for no rep available, until it just went Agent Offline....
I understand that the Product Launch campaigns can be hectic, but for those of us that need the electronic communication access....I'm emptying my cart and forgetting about the question(s) I had at this point.
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
0 -
Frank Sauer said:
Hopefully, whoever tries to contact them can actually get them.... I'm over 24 hours waiting for a response to an email inquiry and tried Chat multiple times through the day, each time getting booted for no rep available, until it just went Agent Offline....
I understand that the Product Launch campaigns can be hectic, but for those of us that need the electronic communication access....I'm emptying my cart and forgetting about the question(s) I had at this point.
I am sorry about this experience. Just give them some time. In the last launch I recall they open as late as 12am and I contacted within the last half-an-hour. They obviously were exhausted. And given limited human resource, a launch like this is almost always going to be overwhelming (even much bigger corporation shows this.)
Just give them some time to sort it out. It is just that even at 100% capacity you may not be able to please everyone.
0 -
Thanks!Mitch Snyder (Faithlife) said:We've taken a look at this and have determined those were accidentally missed. We'll be updating all Baptist Gold+ packages to include these.
L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
0 -
I notice now, that despite having purchased L10 Baptist Gold at least in part to get the COMPLETE complete biblical library, which is what was advertised, i'd have to pay more money to get it.Mitch Snyder (Faithlife) said:We've taken a look at this and have determined those were accidentally missed. We'll be updating all Baptist Gold+ packages to include these.
its a reasonable 5$. But you guys had committed to one thing, and provided another. Do I(we?) really need to pay more money to get what was promised? Or is this some kind of glitch?L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
0 -
Maybe this deserves its own thread. Maybe its just me that feels this way. Or maybe I am the only one that misunderstood.
But the early purchasers need to know they didn't get everything it seemed like they would get.
L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
0 -
abondservant said:
Maybe this deserves its own thread. Maybe its just me that feels this way. Or maybe I am the only one that misunderstood.
But the early purchasers need to know they didn't get everything it seemed like they would get.In the past I head people in this case can get the extra books for free after contacting CS.
But the fact is that they initially left those titles out of the package, so the dynamic pricing you see doesn't include them. i.e. had it been there the price you see should be slightly higher. But because buying things incrementally does not sum to buying it at once, a property of Logos' dynamic pricing model, the difference would have been smaller than what you're seeing now. e.g. for me it is $2 more now comparing to the package before this fix.
0 -
abondservant said:
I notice now, that despite having purchased L10 Baptist Gold at least in part to get the COMPLETE complete biblical library, which is what was advertised, i'd have to pay more money to get it.
its a reasonable 5$. But you guys had committed to one thing, and provided another. Do I(we?) really need to pay more money to get what was promised? Or is this some kind of glitch?To be fair, they never advertised Logos 10 Baptist Gold to include everything in the Complete Biblical Library. First, Complete is in the name of that collection, not indicating it is complete (in fact you can buy individual volume that has the name Complete there and certainly you wouldn't expect it to be complete CBL.)
If you go to https://www.logos.com/product/205353/old-and-new-testament-39-vols , see "This title is included in the following collections", and previously the Baptist Gold wasn't there. So that's an indicator that it is in fact not complete.
Lastly, some of us did the comparison manually and found out the 2 interlinears are missing, which is how this thread is started in the first place.
In the old days, in each Logos launch, we used to create a spreadsheet tracking the items included and do our comparison manually all the time. The experience has improved a lot now that people can just glance through and for most of the package, a web UI is provided to compare. They are not perfect as seen in this thread, but they already did a lot to help making this decision easier. For the time they saved for a typical person, I bet it worth much more than the $5 dollar mistake here (more like $3 dollar mistake as the original price probably should be $2 more than you paid.) Those manual comparison can easily sink us hours, if not tens of hours of work. (Some even created an online collaborative spreadsheet just to lower the workload per person.)
0 -
Yeah I’m aware of that. Me and another guy did much of the work year after year.
I shouldn’t have to do that, or click on each individual product to see if it’s included. if It says the “complete biblical library is included“ and it isn’t, but then it later is, I shouldn’t have to pay the extra to get what I was promised from go. Double checking logos packages is not my job. Nor should it be. Many items say 19 of 20 resources included. I didn’t even see that. Because they obvi intended to include the whole thing. The whole thing wasn’t delivered. Now they want me to pay 5$ more for a package I’ve already bought, because they didn’t flip a toggle somewhere. See the problem?
I think it was dmb that said something like they will always rip you off on launch day.
I defended them. Maybe I shouldn’t have.
L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
0 -
I think the bottom line is that it is very likely they would match it for free if you give them a call / online chat, or may be even an email.
What I was trying to say is to explain why it isn't a rip off, but just a mistake. And it is still a fair value even if they don't cover that.
I mean we all want it to be right in the first place, they would too, so that they can save time not to have come back and fix and manually adjust case by case for example.
0 -
If my memory hasn't failed me, at some point in the past Faithlife has simply automatically given licenses to everyone who had already purchased Xyz package/library when that package/library turned out to be missing something that was supposed to be included in it.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
0 -
Thats how I remember it going too.SineNomine said:If my memory hasn't failed me, at some point in the past Faithlife has simply automatically given licenses to everyone who had already purchased Xyz package/library when that package/library turned out to be missing something that was supposed to be included in it.
Which is why I'm sending up a flare. This is either a new way of doing business (dislike) or maybe an oversight.L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
0 -
Kolen Cheung said:
Just give them some time to sort it out. It is just that even at 100% capacity you may not be able to please everyone.
Not sure if this was intended the way it reads, so I am going to extend grace in case it was not....
It has now been 3 business days without so much as an automated message response getting back to my email. Before you decided to respond as to the nature of the launch.... I had already made that a part of my statement - and for a better understanding I date back to the early stages with Libronix and have been through at least 7 major launches with Logos. That also means Logos has been through those launches - so knowing the overwhelming traffic via phone, chat and email - they obviously under estimated this launch....
Also, my frustration with the email was that in relation to my initial purchase which was in the start of the launch, my emails were responded to quite quickly - however, when I contact them with questions regarding the accuracy of the pricing (considering there are posted issues related to it), it is crickets....Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
0 -
well it can be more complicated than "they should anticipate that". This is different from the past that we are still in a pandemic, and then an inflation, which change a lot about the job market or may even hinder their ability to hire. Just speculation here but I would give them more benefit of doubt in these difficult times.
And I have a similar experience last round that buying is much easier than getting support at this time. I also am not saying they are blameless saints, that at one point one of the staff clearly was losing patience. No amount of salary or training can ensure everyone can reflect the value of a company all the time.
But in this case if I were you I'd just pay those $5 and move on as consuming more time isn't worth it right now. When they are less busy, may be by then you chat with them and they would reverse the $5 transaction to you. Or alternatively just ask them to match at a later time.
0 -
For the quote, I'm not sure if I'm not communicate correctly as English is not my mother tongue. I just mean that eg if we walk in a ramen shop, no matter how much they want to please everyone, if they are at 100% capacity then someone is going to wait too long and left unsatisfied.
Getting automation is important here and eg the auto comparison is godsend but as long as we need a human to intervene, even if it is their mistake in the first place, send you back to the above situation.
Logos is different than many other software company in this sense. For many others they are selling a simple package / products that doesn't involve so many combinations which is error prone and needs human intervention. For them fixing a bug doesn't require going back to you individually, but just release a new version and complaints will disappear.0 -
Kolen Cheung said:
For the quote, I'm not sure if I'm not communicate correctly as English is not my mother tongue. I just mean that eg if we walk in a ramen shop, no matter how much they want to please everyone, if they are at 100% capacity then someone is going to wait too long and left unsatisfied. Getting automation is important here and eg the auto comparison is godsend but as long as we need a human to intervene, even if it is their mistake in the first place, send you back to the above situation. Logos is different than many other software company in this sense. For many others they are selling a simple package / products that doesn't involve so many combinations which is error prone and needs human intervention. For them fixing a bug doesn't require going back to you individually, but just release a new version and complaints will disappear.
You can have your opinion on poor handling of service.... That does not mean everyone else needs to accept your view, nor accept poor service. In this thread you have also told someone to basically pay extra, because "consuming more time right now isn't worth it" - that may be the case for you - but for someone else that small amount may not be small to their budget. If there was an error it should in fact get as much, if not MORE attention than the sale of product in that person's situation.
You also dismiss the responsibility of Faithlife to communicate in relation to fixing a bug effecting the sales process - well, if you paid attention to my actual initial post, I was emptying my cart - and the questions I had pertained to what was a potentially larger sale originally. My email was asking for assistance with why my adding the Full Feature set upgrade from Silver was going to cost within a dollar or two with only the 15% Discount, in comparison to when I had it in my cart with the 30% launch discount....
So they lost a potential sale with the lack of response. You also go out of your way to confront those who are having issues and continue to make excuses for Faithlife.... Pandemics, Inflation, nor the hectic nature of a Product Launch are valid excuses for poor service! You also ignore the fact that Faithlife Staff of varying levels frequent the forums and have been active in responding to issues, complaints and compliments during and since the launch - yet some are ignored.For the record, I will support FL when it is needed, for example - some comments that may insinuate FL and Linux. I make it clears to those that complain that there is no Linux app, that FL is very supportive to those of us working on getting Logos functioning on Linux. I will also speak up when there are issues.
How about extending the same grace to those who are having issues, that you have been going out of your way to do for Faithlife?
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
0 -
Does anyone know or have a screen shot to show if the circle by the series on the product page indicated a partial series or a complete series? If it showed partial, then the onus is on the purchaser; if it showed complete, then the onus is on FL.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
Frank Sauer said:
That does not mean everyone else needs to accept your view
That goes both ways. Most of the time, like it or not, forum members exactly are doing that–they reframe the point of view to appreciate more on what they have done or why they behave less than perfect. If you want to go the merciless route it is up to you. No one including Faithlife staff will force you to accept anything else. In that case just ask a refund and move on. If you take out the God/Bible element and don't want to treat them as brothers/sisters then fine, as a business transaction, you are only entitled to a refund, nothing more.
Frank Sauer said:you have also told someone to basically pay extra, because "consuming more time right now isn't worth it"
I did say "if I were you". Rationally it really only a matter of how much you value your time. Say it takes you an hour, does spend an hour fighting a $5 worth it? Honestly unless you're in a country where the minimum pay is less than $5/hr, then you are in the territory of not thinking rationally. I understand that, if I were you I would feel that way too. And if I were you that's exactly how I would counsel myself out of that situation. But I am not you for sure.
Frank Sauer said:You also dismiss the responsibility of Faithlife to communicate in relation to fixing a bug effecting the sales process
I never dismissed that, if you read carefully, I'm justifying them why they didn't get back to you yet. I'd be surprised they will never address that. But you are more like impatient rather than sure that they are intentionally ignoring you.
Frank Sauer said:Pandemics, Inflation, nor the hectic nature of a Product Launch are valid excuses for poor service
How about the fact that they are like us, we all are humans. (Again, my point is about them not getting back to you promptly.) If 5000 customers are in my front door and I'm sorry I am not Jesus that can feed y'all at once.
Frank Sauer said:yet some are ignored
which supporting my point that they are beyond capacity. You're the 101% customer. Note that we are not all line in a queue and it is not like a first-come-first-serve thing. If you're slipped through, no amount of time would be enough for them to reply you.
Frank Sauer said:How about extending the same grace to those who are having issues, that you have been going out of your way to do for Faithlife?
I was not on anyone's side. My feeling is that you're not stepping in their shoes and are accessing the situation one-sidedly. All I tried to do is balanced that view. Your voice is loud and clear, no one is disputing that and for the most time I don't feel the need to reiterate the legitimacy of what you claimed (although I've thrown in some of my legitimate problems I experienced.) If you feel otherwise, ok, you don't need to justify to me. I'm a nobody.
0 -
MJ. Smith said:
Does anyone know or have a screen shot to show if the circle by the series on the product page indicated a partial series or a complete series? If it showed partial, then the onus is on the purchaser; if it showed complete, then the onus is on FL.
CBL is scattered around for a few things, namely the NT commentaries, OT commentaries, dictionaries (NT and OT separately) and interlinears.
Each of them are complete series, but just that they missed to include the interlinears.
https://www.logos.com/product/228286/logos-10-baptist-gold
They have a wording of
- Library: 690+ digital books including the New American Commentary Series | NAC (43 vols.), Believers Church Bible Commentary | BCBC (33 vols.), The Biblical Illustrator: Old and New Testament Collection (60 vols.), Old and New Testament, 39 vols. (The Complete Biblical Library | CBL), and more.
This is likely where it would leads someone to believe it is complete, although technically it didn't.
From their response, it is left out unintentionally. Contractually they never lied to claim to include that anywhere, but practically it is very easy to miss.
0 -
Kolen Cheung said:
They have a wording of
- Library: 690+ digital books including the New American Commentary Series | NAC (43 vols.), Believers Church Bible Commentary | BCBC (33 vols.), The Biblical Illustrator: Old and New Testament Collection (60 vols.), Old and New Testament, 39 vols. (The Complete Biblical Library | CBL), and more.
This is likely where it would leads someone to believe it is complete, although technically it didn't.
That probably answers my question ... I would not assume that indicated that all volumes of the series were included, merely that "most" of the series was included e.g. new volumes that are not yet included in the collection, I would not expect to be in the package. But I do see how someone unfamiliar with FL marketing could read it differently.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
Screen shot, no.MJ. Smith said:Does anyone know or have a screen shot to show if the circle by the series on the product page indicated a partial series or a complete series? If it showed partial, then the onus is on the purchaser; if it showed complete, then the onus is on FL.
But I've been around for a while, as you know, and I know to look for that little bubble.
Any way. I've said all I'm going to. They can include it or not. I'm not returning anything. I am just annoyed and not likely to purchase day one again.L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
0 -
abondservant said:
I am just annoyed and not likely to purchase day one again.
I almost waited for the Kerusso webinar before buying anything, but was impatient and a bit more trusting than I am now. I'm not annoyed. I don't feel cheated. I believe all my possessions belong to God, not me, so I cannot be personally cheated, and therefore have no reason to be personally annoyed. BUT ... I will be quite a bit slower to hit "buy" in the future! I am responsible to use the resources entrusted to me as carefully as possible. Waiting would have been wiser. I don't think I failed this time, but if I don't learn and grow from this experience, then I will fail if I repeat this impatient act. This week has been instructive.
0 -
Well said.
I wonder how did you hear about the Kerusso webinar? I never have heard about it, not even from Logos' marketing stuffs.
0 -
MJ. Smith said:Kolen Cheung said:
They have a wording of
- Library: 690+ digital books including the New American Commentary Series | NAC (43 vols.), Believers Church Bible Commentary | BCBC (33 vols.), The Biblical Illustrator: Old and New Testament Collection (60 vols.), Old and New Testament, 39 vols. (The Complete Biblical Library | CBL), and more.
This is likely where it would leads someone to believe it is complete, although technically it didn't.
That probably answers my question ... I would not assume that indicated that all volumes of the series were included, merely that "most" of the series was included e.g. new volumes that are not yet included in the collection, I would not expect to be in the package. But I do see how someone unfamiliar with FL marketing could read it differently.
also so everyone is on the same page, there are only 39 volumes in the cbl. they promised 39, and delivered 37. Now want to charge me for the remaining two. it is what it is.
L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
0 -
SineNomine said:
If my memory hasn't failed me, at some point in the past Faithlife has simply automatically given licenses to everyone who had already purchased Xyz package/library when that package/library turned out to be missing something that was supposed to be included in it.
Yes, this is what should have happened. We'll be adding the missing volumes to all existing purchasers' libraries soon.
I apologise for the delay in doing this, and that people on this thread had to bring it up manually.
0 -
Thank you everyone, the launch day Baptist libraries should be updating in your software shortly. Those two missing volumes will download automatically for anyone who purchase a Gold or higher Baptist package. Anyone who buys one of these moving forward will also have these volumes.
0 -
I search Eventbrite for Logos and then I "follow" everyone that hosts events there, so that I get emails advertising future events.
There is an Eventbrite event tomorrow.
My assumption is that the coupon codes posted in the webinars will not work. I won't be bothering to attend.
0 -
SineNomine said:
If my memory hasn't failed me, at some point in the past Faithlife has simply automatically given licenses to everyone who had already purchased Xyz package/library when that package/library turned out to be missing something that was supposed to be included in it.
Yes, this is what should have happened. We'll be adding the missing volumes to all existing purchasers' libraries soon.
I apologise for the delay in doing this, and that people on this thread had to bring it up manually.
thank you Bradley. I was hoping it was something as simple as that
.L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
0 -
Oddly that doesn't seem to have taken effect quite yet.Mitch Snyder (Faithlife) said:Thank you everyone, the launch day Baptist libraries should be updating in your software shortly. Those two missing volumes will download automatically for anyone who purchase a Gold or higher Baptist package. Anyone who buys one of these moving forward will also have these volumes.
L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
0 -
Thank you for bringing this back up. I made an update on our end. Could you please restart your software and confirm these resources have now updated?
0 -
I was looking at the web page which still showed them unowned when I made the post. Now though, its showing I own them. Restarted and did an "update now" and it downloaded.
Thank you Mitch!!L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
0 -
SineNomine said:
If my memory hasn't failed me, at some point in the past Faithlife has simply automatically given licenses to everyone who had already purchased Xyz package/library when that package/library turned out to be missing something that was supposed to be included in it.
Yes, this is what should have happened. We'll be adding the missing volumes to all existing purchasers' libraries soon.
I apologise for the delay in doing this, and that people on this thread had to bring it up manually.
[Y][Y]
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
0
