Bible reference searches in non-Bible resources

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 24 2011 3:32 PM

Kevin Becker:

Thanks Louis, is there a character that is short for superset?

More importantly would it be possible to get a developer to look at this. In some cases where a chapter break is poorly placed this is a serious search limitation! Perhaps if the ~ could include adjacent chapters where the Bible reference had a specific end verse.

It's a similar problem to L3 in that Passage Guide searches need to be specific as possible. I Jn 2:28-3:3 is less likely to produce a meaningful article on 1 Jn 2:28 than 1 Jn 2:29, which the default <1 Jn 2:28> would find. So <superset 1 Jn 2:28> is appropriate for this case (see 1. References).

Dave
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Kevin Becker | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 24 2011 3:44 PM

Louis St. Hilaire:

I'll ask whether this is actually what was intended. As I noted, the function appears to be the same as %narrow-intersect% in Libronix. If the reason for this is really just to exlude overly broad chapter-level ranges, then it seems like references that specify a verse and only span a single chapter are precise enough to be included by "~".

Thanks!

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Nord Zootman | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 25 2011 12:32 PM

It's too bad that they left the scripture index out of this version.. I have this in a different software and it is included there.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 25 2011 7:39 PM

Nord Zootman:
It's too bad that they left the scripture index out of this version.

What do you mean?

Dave
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Nord Zootman | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 25 2011 8:01 PM

The original post said "Unfortunately, this particular book is missing the Scripture index found in the print edition, so I find myself going to the print edition to find Scripture passages" I don't have this in LOGOS so I can't verify that, but it appears that they did not include the index (presumably because it can be searched). At least one other company includes the index in their digital copy.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 26 2011 4:20 AM

Nord Zootman:
The original post said "Unfortunately, this particular book is missing the Scripture index found in the print edition, so I find myself going to the print edition to find Scripture passages"

You can click the Quote button to include the text to which you are responding (prevents misunderstandingsBig Smile).

Dave
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Nord Zootman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 26 2011 6:52 AM

Thanks Dave - not sure how I missed that!

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Harry Hahne | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 26 2011 10:20 PM

Dave Hooton:
So <superset 1 Jn 2:28> is appropriate for this case (see 1. References).

This works, at least in this instance. I really expected <~1 John 2:28> to work.

I think it would be more intuitive if a person could type in a Bible reference and find it whether the verse is an exact match or part of a range.

I still think this type of search works inconsistently. In the Wallace Greek Grammar, if I search <Bible ~1 John 2:28> it does not find 1 John 2:28-3:3 (page 525). But if I change the search to <Bible ~1 John 2:18> it finds 1 John 2:18-19, which is on the same page.

 

 

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Harry Hahne | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 26 2011 10:23 PM

Could someone explain the 3 types of search operators as they apply to the Bible: Intersection, subset and superset. These are listed here (under 1. References).

 

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Jerry M | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 26 2011 10:33 PM

Harry Hahne:

Could someone explain the 3 types of search operators as they apply to the Bible: Intersection, subset and superset. These are listed here (under 1. References).

 

I don't know the answer to your question, but I enjoyed reading your Logos 4 operation tips on your balboa website.  Do you plan to update that?

 

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 27 2011 1:31 AM

Harry Hahne:

Could someone explain the 3 types of search operators as they apply to the Bible: Intersection, subset and superset. These are listed here (under 1. References).

Forum http://community.logos.com/forums/p/19846/149311.aspx#149311 has an example of intersection, subset, and superset.  Also, wiki Searching for Bible Verses and other References section has a table illustrating intersection, subset, and superset.

Keep Smiling Smile

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Kevin Becker | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 27 2011 4:40 AM

Harry Hahne:

This works, at least in this instance. I really expected <~1 John 2:28> to work.

I think it would be more intuitive if a person could type in a Bible reference and find it whether the verse is an exact match or part of a range.

I still think this type of search works inconsistently. In the Wallace Greek Grammar, if I search <Bible ~1 John 2:28> it does not find 1 John 2:28-3:3 (page 525). But if I change the search to <Bible ~1 John 2:18> it finds 1 John 2:18-19, which is on the same page.

Harry, this caught me by surprise too!

The main issue is that the range 1 John 2:28-3:3 crosses a chapter boundary.

The <~BibleRef> syntax excludes ranges that cross chapter boundaries. The idea is so that <~1 John 2:28> would not return a tagged range like 1 John 2-4. Normally this is a pretty good idea because a wide swath of text isn't very likely to have relevance to our search for one verse. But in the cases where a chapter boundary interrupts a paragraph this distinction can interrupt a regular <BibleRef> search. Louis' post that he's going to ask development about having a reference like this one included in the ~ search is good news!

Anyway I hope that information will make the links by KS4J more understandable. EDIT: The Detailed search page is, well details, it would be easy to miss the pertinent info, so for those who don't know what to look for this screen-grab is from that wiki page. The chart explains the differences.

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Bradley Grainger (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 28 2011 11:24 AM

Louis St. Hilaire:

<bible superset 1 Jn 2:28> appears to get all references you're looking for.

You can also use <bible intersect 1 Jn 2:28>, which performs a full intersection and finds references that span chapter boundaries. (This is off by default, because ~ is faster, and typically returns more relevant results.)

The difference between using "intersect" and "superset" is that <bible superset 1 Jn 2:20-29> won't find 1 Jn 2:28, because v28 is not a "superset" of vv20-29. However, "intersect" will find that reference.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 28 2011 3:13 PM

Bradley Grainger:
You can also use <bible intersect 1 Jn 2:28>, which performs a full intersection and finds references that span chapter boundaries. (This is off by default, because ~ is faster, and typically returns more relevant results.)

Bradley, this is the sort of information that should be in L4 Help - even Louis was struggling!

Dave
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Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 28 2011 3:18 PM

Dave Hooton:

Bradley Grainger:
You can also use <bible intersect 1 Jn 2:28>, which performs a full intersection and finds references that span chapter boundaries. (This is off by default, because ~ is faster, and typically returns more relevant results.)

Bradley, this is the sort of information that should be in L4 Help - even Louis was struggling!

Yeah!  I immediately marked Bradley's post as a favorite so I could find it again.

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steve clark | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 28 2011 3:29 PM

Dave Hooton:
Bradley, this is the sort of information that should be in L4 Help - even Louis was struggling!

Dave,

You might want to update the wiki page Search Help , i found differing result counts.

Using the tilde yields

While using Intersect yields

Also i tried intersection (as it was in italics) and got this

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 28 2011 3:45 PM

I just made changes to both wiki Search articles ie. http://wiki.logos.com/Search_HELP & http://wiki.logos.com/Detailed_Search_Help#Searching_for_Bible_Verses_and_other_References

Dave
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steve clark | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 28 2011 3:57 PM

Thanks Dave!

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