OT: Oldest Christian Books allegedly Found In A Jordanian Cave

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fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 12 2011 2:14 PM

Rosie Perera:
Oh my, here we go again: Nails used to crucify Jesus found?

You said it! Crucifixion nails having mystical powers? Yeah... I can think of one very definite *mystical' power they would have had: they would have made a high priest -- or any Jewish priest for that matter -- ritually unclean. If Caiaphas touched one, he'd be barred from entering the Temple and performing his duties. 

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

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TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 12 2011 3:38 PM

fgh:
You said it! Crucifixion nails having mystical powers? Yeah... I can think of one very definite *mystical' power they would have had: they would have made a high priest -- or any Jewish priest for that matter -- ritually unclean. If Caiaphas touched one, he'd be barred from entering the Temple and performing his duties. 
LOL yeah that's what I was thinking.  I had a roll my eyes moment when he said that.  

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 12 2011 3:45 PM

There have been 30 or so other nails venerated as those from Jesus' cross: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Nails

They can't all be authentic. And as far as I'm concerned, it's not worth making any of them an object of veneration or speculation.

Posts 103
Lonnie Ritchie | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 13 2011 8:52 AM

James's "wait and see" attitude on these recent discoveries is very prudent and practical.  It's far too early to get excited.  "Wait and see" is a good posture for now.

Lonnie

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 13 2011 10:03 AM

Rosie Perera:
Why are reputable news outlets starting to sound more and more like supermarket tabloids? Whenever they have a question mark on the end of the story title, you know it's going to be another one of these wild speculations.


Maybe they really aren't that reputable. 

Rosie Perera:

There have been 30 or so other nails venerated as those from Jesus' cross: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Nails

They can't all be authentic. And as far as I'm concerned, it's not worth making any of them an object of veneration or speculation.

"They can't all be authentic."?

Zip it!    I'm trying very hard not to say the same about 30 or so Bible translations that disagree with each other. Devil

Oops. It just slipped out. Embarrassed   Get back to the topic , Matthew  Angry

Whether Mark Shea is an scholar or entertainer (He is really very much both), he makes a great point about the timing of the press reports and asks the important question of "what does it really matter?".

"He claimed to have found the ossuary of somebody named "Jesus." For a first-century tomb, this is sort of like finding the ossuary of somebody named "Bob." But wait! There was more! The tomb also had ossuaries of people with first century equivalents of "Mary," "John," "Bill," "Susan," and "Jim." And DNA tests revealed . . . that they were related to each other!" - -Mark Shea @ http://www.insidecatholic.com/feature/tabloid-biblical-archaeology.html

 

 

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Posts 103
Lonnie Ritchie | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 13 2011 11:17 AM

Whoopdy do, whoopdy do!!!  So what?  There has to be some waiting time before too much is made of such "discoveries."

Lonnie

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 13 2011 11:33 AM

Lonnie:
Whoopdy do, whoopdy do!!!  So what?  There has to be some waiting time before too much is made of such "discoveries."

Why do we need to wait before pointing out that these nails are obviously phony? I was amazed when he held one of the nails between his thumb and index finger. Who on earth would ever believe that the Romans would attempt to nail someone to a cross with an 8d nail? I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and allow that it could have been a 10d nail, still quite insufficient to be driven through the heel of the hand or the foot and into the cross with even minimum holding power.

CNN must be very desperate for ratings to give publicity to such garbage.

Posts 103
Lonnie Ritchie | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 13 2011 12:35 PM

Jack, yours is a very well-taken and astute point.  With it, I surely agree.  I guess I didn't make myself clear enough before, but what I mean to say is that before we get too excited about such things as though they were likeunto The Dead Sea Scrolls discovery, let's wait before ballyhooing them.  Most turn out to be hoaxes anyway.

Thanks.  Peace grace, love.

Lonnie

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Michael Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 13 2011 1:05 PM

And among them were some of the earliest posts to Logos forums.

 

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 103
Lonnie Ritchie | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 13 2011 1:54 PM

Amen!!!

Lonnie

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Dan Sheppard | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 13 2011 2:37 PM

So if these lead codices turn out to be fakes, that means we were all mis-lead?

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TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 13 2011 3:02 PM

groan

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 13 2011 3:34 PM

Lonnie:
what I mean to say is that before we get too excited about such things as though they were likeunto The Dead Sea Scrolls discovery, let's wait before ballyhooing them.  Most turn out to be hoaxes anyway.

Agreed. I usually tend to regard these amazing new discoveries are fakes until someone credible proves otherwise. 

Posts 308
James W Bennett | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 13 2011 8:44 PM

Dan Sheppard:

So if these lead codices turn out to be fakes, that means we were all mis-lead?

ROTFL...

Have to tell that one to my daughter.

---

James W Bennett

http://syriac.tara-lu.com/

Posts 496
Greg Masone | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 23 2011 9:53 PM

There seem to be new developments on the lead codices. Apparently various testing of the codices suggest they may be very old and may even be early Christian documents. Below are the links where I found this news. I have not any other news items announcing this yet.

Tests Support 'Jordan Texts' Authenticity

The Earliest Christian Documents

It will be interesting to hear the results of further testing, especially if the full collection can be obtained and analyzed.

 

Posts 187
Rev. D. | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 24 2011 6:04 AM

Greg,

Thanks for sharing this information because I hadn't heard it yet. And, even if they wind up not being Christian in origin, it is still a really cool find that I'd be interested in reading, providing I can get a great deal in Community Pricing Wink.

Have a blessed weekend and thanks again!

Christina

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Posts 69
Daniel Presley | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 24 2011 7:49 PM

The metal plates seem to be infested with rust. Do you think they will be able to recover any writings from the damage of the rust?

In God we trust.

Dan

Posts 95
Rick Brannan | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 24 2011 8:39 PM

Greg Masone:
There seem to be new developments on the lead codices. Apparently various testing of the codices suggest they may be very old and may even be early Christian documents. Below are the links where I found this news. I have not any other news items announcing this yet.

Hi Greg.

An important countering opinion to the thinking that these lead codices are genuine is found in Dr. James Davila's blog, here:

http://paleojudaica.blogspot.com/2011_06_12_archive.html#1608255452773079360

The thing to remember is that they're testing the metal, not the content. There have been obvious forgeries located in the same supposed collection of codices, and forgers are known to use ancient sources (lead) when they can find it.

Davila keeps up to date on this stuff, as does Logos' own Dr. Michael S. Heiser, whose latest blog entry on the lead codices can be found here: http://michaelsheiser.com/PaleoBabble/2011/06/lead-codices-update-2/ 

Rick Brannan | Twitter: @RickBrannan
my books in print

Posts 496
Greg Masone | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 24 2011 9:49 PM

Hi Rick.

Thanks for the additional links. I'm just updating according to what I've heard.

Posts 1633
Allen Browne | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 22 2011 6:42 PM

Ben Witherington linked a video clip debunking these lead codices as fake:

http://www.patheos.com/community/bibleandculture/2011/09/22/the-lead-codices-hoax-exposed/

 

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