Revelation Commentaries - Please Lower Your Bids!

Page 2 of 3 (45 items) < Previous 1 2 3 Next >
This post has 44 Replies | 3 Followers

Posts 6699
Forum MVP
Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 7 2012 2:54 AM

Logos: How about contacting the 160.00 bidders and pointing them to this thread or sending them a message related to this thread.

Lynden Williams Communications https://www.lyndenwilliams.net 

Posts 675
Into Grace | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 7 2012 6:22 AM

If you bid under $50:

($10, $20, $30 and $40) PLEASE raise your bids to $50. Let's get this set moved to the production line.

 

If you bid $160 or $170:

PLEASE lower your bids to $50.  Thanks for your time. Smile

 

Posts 485
Randy Lane | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 7 2012 6:41 AM

Unless they are forum readers (which I predict/think only includes may 20%-30%), how do we (forum readers who want the bidders to lower their bids) know who they are to contact them?

Posts 485
Randy Lane | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 7 2012 6:42 AM

Oops, I did not see that you suggested Logos do so.

Posts 178
DavidS | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 7 2012 8:48 AM

I believe there is a misunderstanding about Community Pricing. The following is a description of CP.

http://www.logos.com/communitypricing/about

Publishing by the Numbers

If it costs $4,000 to produce an electronic edition of a book, the costs can be covered by 4 people paying $1,000 each or by 1,000 people paying $4 each. The more likely scenario, though, is that no one wants to pay $1,000 and there aren’t 1,000 people interested in the title, even at $4. But there may be 200 people who would pay $20 each.

Community Pricing is about finding the lowest price that covers the production costs.

We have asked our customers: “What is the most you would pay for an electronic edition of this title?” By multiplying the number of customers who would pay a specific amount or more with that price, we are able to generate a chart showing estimated revenue for the product at each price point.

 

I believe the $160 bidder would be included in the numbers at the highest number of bidders. To use the example above, if 1 bidder bids $1000 and 999 bid $4 then the production costs would be met and it would go to production. So it is a matter of how many bids that is a problem. If lower bidders raise their bid to the current price point then progress is made. Higher bidders lowering their bid to the price point makes no difference.

If I am wrong let me know.

Posts 485
Randy Lane | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 7 2012 8:55 AM

You are totally correct. I said pretty much the same thing is a post to this thread yesterday.

What I do not understand is what logic is used to afix the price, $160 in this case. The price affixed to the Revelation set is probably discouraging many users from bidding. They think the price will be at/near $160, so the skip the item. While getting users to change change htier bids to $50 if they have a higher bid in place will not cause the item to go into production, the hope is that it will decrease the price that is affixed to the set and thereby the set will be more attractive to people who have yet to place a bid.

Posts 11530
Forum MVP
NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 7 2012 9:11 AM

David Snyman:
I believe the $160 bidder would be included in the numbers at the highest number of bidders. To use the example above, if 1 bidder bids $1000 and 999 bid $4 then the production costs would be met and it would go to production. So it is a matter of how many bids that is a problem. If lower bidders raise their bid to the current price point then progress is made. Higher bidders lowering their bid to the price point makes no difference.

This has been discussed in several threads right now. Mathematically you are correct. And if someone found a couple of $160 bidders, they could bring this over the top @160 and then we'll see. It seems, though, that all those who are willing to pay $160 have bid so - and the commentary stalled in CP.

The idea of the group suggesting those high-bidders to lower their bid is psychology: they believe that many potential bidders are scared away by the $160 price point - and given the impression that resources go over at the current price point and then maybe reduce by a slight percentage (i.e. only a couple of dollars), those bidders in the <$100 range might refrain from putting in a bid at all. Flipping the price point to $50 would - so the theory goes - attract these bidders and create the momentum needed to bring the set over the top.

This may be true or not - after all, the argument assumes that the "scared-away" not-bidders don't understand CP, since they won't lose anything by bidding their individual maximum.   

Assuming that the production cost is probably not very different to the successful sets, and many people may tend to collect all the classical commentaries of all relevant books / all NT books / all books, I wonder why the $50 bidders didn't overtake the $160ers long ago. But maybe Logos did put the production cost based on a high initial estimate and will re-evaluate (some CPs in the past had a history that could support such conclusions), thus driving the set nearer to 100% - in this case it would need only a small number of $160 bidders to get this into production, and the price might fall considerably nevertheless.   

Mick

Running Logos 9 latest (beta) version on Win 10

Posts 3731
BillS | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 7 2012 9:31 AM

Joshua G:

I wish we were able to see the amount of bids. I would find it interesting to know exactly how many $160 bidders there are.

Hi Joshua, not to pick on your post, but because you captured the focus on $160 bidders so succinctly, I'm responding to yours. We're looking in the wrong direction. Let's forget $160 bidders... They're already in at $50, too. Instead, let's attract new $50 bidders by explaining the value. Why is this series even worth $50? It's still higher than the "average" cp offering. Let's sell the value there is. Let's focus on getting the new bidders it'll take to get this going. That's what'llput this over the top & get it rolling. Sell the value. I don't remember George Somsel's original explanatation of the value of some of these volumes, but as a scholar I respect his input carried weight with me... would like to see a reprise of explanation of the value...

Many blessings to you all,

Grace & Peace,
Bill


MSI GF63 8RD, I-7 8850H, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 2TB HDD, NVIDIA GTX 1050Max
iPhone 12 Pro Max 512Gb
Fire 10HD 64GB 7th Gen

Posts 8899
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 7 2012 10:43 AM

NB.Mick:
after all, the argument assumes that the "scared-away" not-bidders don't understand CP

Remember that they may not even have heard of it. They may just be searching the website for Rev commentaries. If they then find a whole collection for $50, they may click on it and find out about CP, but if they see $160 for a set they've never heard of, they probably just move on, never realizing they could have bid something lower. In my time here I have seen a number of posts by people who have used Logos for years before finding out that CP exists.

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 11530
Forum MVP
NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 7 2012 11:43 AM

fgh:

NB.Mick:
after all, the argument assumes that the "scared-away" not-bidders don't understand CP

Remember that they may not even have heard of it. They may just be searching the website for Rev commentaries. If they then find a whole collection for $50, they may click on it and find out about CP, but if they see $160 for a set they've never heard of, they probably just move on, never realizing they could have bid something lower. 

That may well be true. Maybe a facebook posting now or then or a tweet like "commentary set - set your own price" would help.

Running Logos 9 latest (beta) version on Win 10

Posts 485
Randy Lane | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 7 2012 12:02 PM

Maybe a Logos Blog write-up that clearly explains the workings of CP woudl lure a few that have placed high bids to lower them, and the benefits of doing os. That would reach the desktops of all Logos 4 users, a far wider audience than these forums.

Posts 50
JAIN THOMAS | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 8 2012 12:12 PM

If the bid pass @ $160, the people who are bidding @ $10 to $150 won't get this set. If you are lowering your amount to $50 (the next highest point) you can definitely make a change. If we do a joint effort, we can beat $160 within few days

Posts 1032
Mike Pettit | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 8 2012 12:39 PM

In response to this endless and inane babbling about reducing bids I have increased mine to $160, if you want more people to bid then this is where you need to put your effort, a high indicative price should have absolutely no impact on this process and to suggest otherwise perpetuates a misunderstanding of CP.

 

Posts 452
Mitchell | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 8 2012 12:52 PM

Mike Pettit:

In response to this endless and inane babbling about reducing bids I have increased mine to $160, if you want more people to bid then this is where you need to put your effort, a high indicative price should have absolutely no impact on this process and to suggest otherwise perpetuates a misunderstanding of CP.

Harsh - but somewhat deserved. Everyone who reads these forums that has bid $160 has either lowered their bids or made an informed decision not to do so. There's no reason to have a new thread about it every other day.

Posts 645
Dean J | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 8 2012 12:59 PM

Judging from how much the $50 peak has grown (it didn't exist eight months ago), especially recently, I would suggest that this is a worthwhile exercise, even if some people decide to react (and thereby prove that CP bidders don't always bid according to the model). This might have stayed in limbo for years - as it is, there is a good chance of it making it in the near future.

Rewind six months. I'm new to logos. I see the Daniel commentaries. I don't bid because I think 'that's too much'. Logos was a learning curve, and reading the fine print on how CP works wasn't a priority. Fast forward a few months. I now understand how CP works.  I place bid on Daniel commentaries. 

The fact is, many people don't understand how CP works, and we are factoring that in. 

It's also the case that the two peaks have moved very close together in recent weeks, and this is no doubt behind the push to see that lower bid tip the balance. We are the ones taking our time to try to promote this, because we want to see this set become a reality. It is a measure of the importance of this set. 

Posts 246
BriM | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 8 2012 1:42 PM

Mike Pettit:
a high indicative price should have absolutely no impact on this process and to suggest otherwise perpetuates a misunderstanding of CP.

Whilst true in a theoretical sense, this statement doesn't take account of the fact that people are put off bidding by the high price. I doubt that enough bidders will be found to tip it at $160 but they will likely get on board once the headline price becomes $50.

For CP to work in the way intended, I think that the bids should be blind - with no indicative price shown at all. Then people can bid what they would be willing to pay without being put off bidding because they think it out of their reach. That said, the current method at least gives people an idea of what might be a reasonable price to go for. It just seems to have got stuck in this case...

Posts 15805
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 8 2012 2:17 PM

BriM:
Whilst true in a theoretical sense, this statement doesn't take account of the fact that people are put off bidding by the high price. I doubt that enough bidders will be found to tip it at $160 but they will likely get on board once the headline price becomes $50.

Caveat: to cover 100 % of estimated cost with $ 50 bids needs 220 % more Logos community bids than covering estimated production cost with $ 160 bids.

Looking at => http://www.logos.com/product/8522/classic-commentaries-and-studies-on-revelation noticed this classic set is a bigger than several others with 12,448 pages in 27 volumes by 20 authors so estimated production cost is higher.

Compared to hard copy purchase, a bid of $ 90 has a discount over 90 % (while needing 78 % more Logos community bids).

When $ 160 stalled in community pricing progress, wonder where projected price would be today if initial plea to reduce bids had been $ 90 instead of $ 50 ?

Note: looks like projected price drop to $ 90 can be achieved by $ 50 bidders raising their bids to $ 90; yet still need many more Logos user bids.

A bid of $ 90 is less than a penny per page (0.7 cents) while a bid of $ 50 equates to 0.4 cents per page.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 645
Dean J | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 8 2012 4:57 PM

I've raised mine up to 90 - I guess it can't hurt!

Posts 2964
tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 8 2012 6:12 PM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

BriM:
Whilst true in a theoretical sense, this statement doesn't take account of the fact that people are put off bidding by the high price. I doubt that enough bidders will be found to tip it at $160 but they will likely get on board once the headline price becomes $50.

Caveat: to cover 100 % of estimated cost with $ 50 bids needs 220 % more Logos community bids than covering estimated production cost with $ 160 bids.

Looking at => http://www.logos.com/product/8522/classic-commentaries-and-studies-on-revelation noticed this classic set is a bigger than several others with 12,448 pages in 27 volumes by 20 authors so estimated production cost is higher.

Compared to hard copy purchase, a bid of $ 90 has a discount over 90 % (while needing 78 % more Logos community bids).

When $ 160 stalled in community pricing progress, wonder where projected price would be today if initial plea to reduce bids had been $ 90 instead of $ 50 ?

Note: looks like projected price drop to $ 90 can be achieved by $ 50 bidders raising their bids to $ 90; yet still need many more Logos user bids.

A bid of $ 90 is less than a penny per page (0.7 cents) while a bid of $ 50 equates to 0.4 cents per page.

Keep Smiling Smile

For me, it is not the cost per page that makes a deal good or bad.  What makes a deal good or bad is the cost per what is written on the pages.  I personally do not think that this set is worth $90.  Heck, I do not believe that it is worth $50, but I raised my bid to $50 to help move it into production.  But if the set sells at $50, I will cancel my order.

Posts 645
Dean J | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 8 2012 6:34 PM

I'd be willing to pay $50 just for Elliot alone; I also really want Bousset, Hort and Trench. This is a very interesting collection of books which are not easily found elsewhere. 

Page 2 of 3 (45 items) < Previous 1 2 3 Next > | RSS