ISBE 1915 edition
I just noticed the ISBE 1915 edition edited by James Orr has just gone on community pricing. I already have this in my library from Ages Software. Will this one be any different from the one by Ages?
Michael Hatcher
visit: www.bellviewcoc.com
iMac 2.8 GHz i7 quad core, 8 GB Ram, 1 TB HD
Comments
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Michael Hatcher said:
I just noticed the ISBE 1915 edition edited by James Orr has just gone on community pricing. I already have this in my library from Ages Software. Will this one be any different from the one by Ages?
The content should be the same. And is preferred over the revision of a few decades ago.
I'm in, but at $25, not the initial recommended $55
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There's a note on the product page:
[quote]
Do you already own the Ages edition of The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, 1915 Edition
that was built for Libronix? The previous edition was created many
years ago, using the best digital files available at the time. We’re
rebuilding the 1915 ISBE from the ground up—this collection contains
new, updated files. Enhance your library with one of the most useful and
trusted reference collections by placing your bid today!So it's probably the same, but retyped for better accuracy. I'm in for $15. This should really be a part of the base packages.
MacBook Pro (2019), ThinkPad E540
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Sorry I missed that---should have looked at it better. Thanks for including the quote.
Michael Hatcher
visit: www.bellviewcoc.com
iMac 2.8 GHz i7 quad core, 8 GB Ram, 1 TB HD
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Here is the link. Edit: Oops I missed your link Todd.
The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, 1915 Edition - Logos Bible Software
"For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power"
Wiki Table of Contents0 -
MacBook Pro (2019), ThinkPad E540
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Todd Phillips said:
There's a note on the product page:
[quote]
Do you already own the Ages edition of The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, 1915 Edition
that was built for Libronix? The previous edition was created many
years ago, using the best digital files available at the time. We’re
rebuilding the 1915 ISBE from the ground up—this collection contains
new, updated files. Enhance your library with one of the most useful and
trusted reference collections by placing your bid today!So it's probably the same, but retyped for better accuracy. I'm in for $15. This should really be a part of the base packages.
If someone already owns this resource and Logos is fixing typos in it (euphemistically put as "rebuilding it...from...updated files"), this should really be a free upgrade. Seems uncharacteristic of them to charge again for it. I could see someone who already owns the 1995 edition but not the 1915 edition (which was quite different) wanting to buy this now just for historic reference. But I already own the 1915 edition and rarely if ever refer to it anyway. I have reported two typos in it (Corintians instead of Corinthians and an4t instead of and) but have never done a systematic search for typos. I'm sure there are tons if it had an4t (an obvious OCR error). Still not worth it to me to pay again for this resource. I think the cost of future typo fixes should be included in the original price. I bought it back in 2007 as part of a Calvin, Spurgeon and ISBE bundle (Ages) for $194.96.
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Randal M Lane said:
The content should be the same. And is preferred over the revision of a few decades ago.
Could you elaborate why you believe the content of the 1915 edition is superior to the update?
Thanks!
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Dave said:Randal M Lane said:
The content should be the same. And is preferred over the revision of a few decades ago.
Could you elaborate why you believe the content of the 1915 edition is superior to the update?
If he's talking about the "revision of a few decades ago" it's certainly not the 1995 update, as that was only 17 years ago. Perhaps there was another poorer quality attempt to revise this content in the intervening years that Randal is referring to? I see on worldcat.org that there's a 1939 (©1929) edition which very few libraries still have a copy of. It was probably lame.
There are some books in history that have a classic year people continue to go back to as the best edition, even when later updates have come out. This was the case with the 11th edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica (1910-1911). People are still collecting it!
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Rosie Perera said:
There are some books in history that have a classic year people continue to go back to as the best edition, even when later updates have come out. This was the case with the 11th edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica (1910-1911). People are still collecting it!
For a minute there I thought you were talking about the 1611 King James [:D][6][:#]
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David Carter said:Rosie Perera said:
There are some books in history that have a classic year people continue to go back to as the best edition, even when later updates have come out. This was the case with the 11th edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica (1910-1911). People are still collecting it!
For a minute there I thought you were talking about the 1611 King James
Oh yeah, that's another one!
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Rosie Perera said:
If someone already owns this resource and Logos is fixing typos in it (euphemistically put as "rebuilding it...from...updated files"), this should really be a free upgrade. Seems uncharacteristic of them to charge again for it.
- We are completely scrapping the original Ages files and starting from scratch—re-keying the every character from the print at our high standards. It sounds expensive, but it's actually cheaper than fixing the numerous problems with the digital files we licensed from Ages.
- If you own the Ages/Logos edition, you will get these new files for free. They will replace your current files automatically, because they will have the same commerce and resource IDs. The note was inadvertently left off the product page and will be added first thing tomorrow. We don't charge you for a new cleaned-up edition of content you already own. It is equivalent to fixing typos.
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Rosie Perera said:
If he's talking about the "revision of a few decades ago" it's certainly not the 1995 update, as that was only 17 years ago.
He's referring to the revised edition (1979–1995). Some don't like it as well because it's not as theologically conservative as the original.
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Phil Gons said:
If you own the Ages/Logos edition, you will get these new files for free. They will replace your current files automatically, because they will have the same commerce and resource IDs. The note was inadvertently left off the product page and will be added first thing tomorrow. We don't charge you for a new cleaned-up edition of content you already own. It is equivalent to fixing typos.
Thank you, Phil! That sounds much more like the Logos I know and love. Sorry for my critical remark that was unwarranted.
What threw me was not any lack of a comment saying we'd get the updated content for free if we already owned this resource; it was the boxed and highlighted comment that specifically implies the opposite:
"Do you already own the Ages edition of The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, 1915 Edition that was built for Libronix? The previous edition was created many years ago, using the best digital files available at the time. We’re rebuilding the 1915 ISBE from the ground up—this collection contains new, updated files. Enhance your library with one of the most useful and trusted reference collections by placing your bid today!"
If a note is added tomorrow morning it should replace that confusing/erroneous one, rather than being added to it.
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Phil Gons said:
He's referring to the revised edition (1979–1995). Some don't like it as well because it's not as theologically conservative as the original.
That is precisely why I value the 1915 edition over the revised edition. [8-|]
I find it very interesting that Logos.com offered the 1915 edition for sale as recent as last week. I have it in my Wishlist and almost purchased it.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Super Tramp said:
I find it very interesting that Logos.com offered the 1915 edition for sale as recent as last week. I have it in my Wishlist and almost purchased it.
Well, now you'll be able to get it for even less in CP!
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Rosie Perera said:
There are some books in history that have a classic year people continue to go back to as the best edition, even when later updates have come out. This was the case with the 11th edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica (1910-1911). People are still collecting it!
There was a major editing and censoring of the content of Encyclopaedia Britannica after the 11th Edition. That is the real reason it has become so highly sought after. Comparing the 11th and 12th editions is an interesting study in historical revisionism.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Oh, YES! [:D] The retail was $70 and the absolute best discount price was a lot higher than the CP price will likely be. [:D] Better product, better price. Logos rocks!Rosie Perera said:Well, now you'll be able to get it for even less in CP!
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Super Tramp said:Rosie Perera said:
Well, now you'll be able to get it for even less in CP!
Oh, YES!
The retail was $70 and the absolute best discount price was a lot higher than the CP price will likely be. Better product, better price. Logos rocks! Bid placed. Likewise Thankful [8-|]
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Please bear with me but why buy ISBE 1915, when it won't have the benefit of the last 90-something years of theological development?
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Tony Kan said:
Please bear with me but why buy ISBE 1915, when it won't have the benefit of the last 90-something years of theological development?
The development of theology over the past 90 years is seen by many as little short of apostacy
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But surely
- technological benefits such as the internet, the pc which have led to useful tools such as Logos, and made so many writers and thinkers much more accessible to a wider audience; and
- archaeological discoveries such as the DSS and the insights that have arisen from an examination of such findings
- The continuing but gradual reapprochment between Jews and Christians
must have led to some progress?
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There is also the impact of relevatism, a denial of historic revelation and a desire not to offend those of other faiths at the expense of truth to balance against the issue that you correctly (in my view) identify as a plus points. It is important to recognise though that people are no smarter now then they used to be.
At least historic thought can be seen in perspective, modern scholorship is hard to judge given the difficulty in seeing what our own blind spots are.
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Tony Kan said:
Please bear with me but why buy ISBE 1915, when it won't have the benefit of the last 90-something years of theological development?
It's more for the conservative stance of the authors. There are other, better works, for newer findings.
FWIW, I bid on this one because I've found it more helpful at times.
The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter
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Tony Kan said:
Please bear with me but why buy ISBE 1915, when it won't have the benefit of the last 90-something years of theological development?
I was thinking the same thing, and when I read Phil's statement:
Phil Gons said:He's referring to the revised edition (1979–1995). Some don't like it as well because it's not as theologically conservative as the original.
I almost spilled my drink because I am thinking that the 1995 version of ISBE is very very very conservative.
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tom collinge said:
I almost spilled my drink because I am thinking that the 1995 version of ISBE is very very very conservative.
[C] But Tom, the 1915 edition of the ISBE is very, very, very, very conservative. [;)]
1 2 3 4
That makes the 1995 edition one "very" closer to the liberal column. [6] I find both editions worthy reference titles. They are both more conservative than the Anchor Yale Bible Dictionary.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Super Tramp said:
That makes the 1995 edition one "very" closer to the liberal column.
I find both editions worthy reference titles. They are both more conservative than the Anchor Yale Bible Dictionary.Could you explain what makes the Anchor Yale Bible Dictionary (which I own) less conservative or - to put it another way - more liberal than the ISBE? Maybe you could cite an example or two.
Thanks
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You could start with source hypothesis for the Old Testament. Anchor states....the long-established identification of J (the Yahwist), E (the Elohist), and P (the Priestly source) still provides the most plausible model for the composition of Genesis. ISBE states....And when critics go so far as to divide J and E and P into many subparts, it becomes all the more impossible to make the names for God a basis for this division into sources.
"For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power"
Wiki Table of Contents0 -
Rosie Perera said:
There are some books in history that have a classic year people continue to go back to as the best edition, even when later updates have come out. This was the case with the 11th edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica (1910-1911). People are still collecting it!
Yes, you are correct. The 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica and the 1828/1913 Webster's Dictionary are very popular among the evangelical homeschooling movement. Both are online free:
http://www.1828-dictionary.com
http://www.1911encyclopedia.org
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Tony Kan said:
But surely
- technological benefits such as the internet, the pc which have led to useful tools such as Logos, and made so many writers and thinkers much more accessible to a wider audience; and
- archaeological discoveries such as the DSS and the insights that have arisen from an examination of such findings
- The continuing but gradual reapprochment between Jews and Christians
must have led to some progress?
CP's (IMO) are less about providing higher-quality resources and more about providing access to historic materials. As has been stated, the revised ISBE is available on Logos, as is other recent dictionaries such as the AYBD. Just expect to pay more for these, as they are still in copyright status.
Some, though, have maintained that older resources are at least equally, if not more, valuable than recent resources. There's probably no end to that debate; but I believe it depends on a case-by-case basis. Any good theology professor will tell you that you should familiarize yourself with the history of theological development - from the ancient church fathers to the beginnings of the Protestant movement to leaders in thought today. Most Bible professors will tell you to do your exegetical research from commentaries that were produced within the last 10-15 years to make sure you are using the most recent research available. As a pastor, I find the best response is somewhere in between. My time is limited, so I cannot read every author on every subject. So, I look at recent resources from publishers/authors I trust, church fathers (such as with the ACCS or Nicene & Anti-Nicene collections), early leaders within my denomination (i.e., John Wesley), and then scan other resources as I find time. Of course, I only preach once every 4-6 weeks, so it makes it easier to do more study than someone who preaches every week. If that were my situation, I'd probably rely on CP titles rarely or never simply due to a lack of time.
Just my two cents.
Pastor, seminary trustee, and app developer. Check out my latest app for churches: The Church App
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What about people who own the 1915 edition done by the Ehesians 4 group? Will they also get the update automatically?
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Shawn Roper said:
What about people who own the 1915 edition done by the Ehesians 4 group? Will they also get the update automatically?
No, they will not get an update. They will need to purchase the Logos edition. I do not think that the E4 edition was ever licensed by Logos, though E4 used Logos technology.
Dell, studio XPS 7100, Ram 8GB, 64 - bit Operating System, AMD Phenom(mt) IIX6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHZ
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Shawn Roper said:
What about people who own the 1915 edition done by the Ehesians 4 group? Will they also get the update automatically?
Logos has given reduced upgrade prices in the past for resources published by AGES software. Those resources were licensed by Logos. The CDs published by E4 were frequently given away free and didn't include a license from Logos. Logos did not assume a contractual responsibility to service unlicensed resources. (Too bad because I've collected 32 E4 CDs. [:(] )
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Slightly off topic, but I tried installing my E4 disc the other day and my computer wouldn't even read it. I assume it is a Windows issue...it was compatible with 95 & 98 (and possibly XP, not sure) but nothing after, from what I can tell. I'm hoping I can get these resources unlocked--I still have the literature that came with it which has the list of what was included.
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"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
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Super Tramp said:Rosie Perera said:
There are some books in history that have a classic year people continue to go back to as the best edition, even when later updates have come out. This was the case with the 11th edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica (1910-1911). People are still collecting it!
There was a major editing and censoring of the content of Encyclopaedia Britannica after the 11th Edition. That is the real reason it has become so highly sought after. Comparing the 11th and 12th editions is an interesting study in historical revisionism.
While the 11th edition is great for comparative study, it had some serious problems of its own. Cf. the entries for Klu Klux Klan and Negro, and the missing entry for Marie Curie, who is only mentioned in passing under her husband's heading.
In the immortal words of the great American poet William Martin Joel:
You can get just so much
From a good thing
You can linger too long
In your dreams
Say goodbye to the
Oldies but goodies
'Cause the good ole days weren't always good
And tomorrow ain't as bad as it seems0 -
Mitchell said:
'Cause the good ole days weren't always good
And tomorrow ain't as bad as it seemsAs much as I like scenes from Italian restaurants,... the oldies but goodies contain much that has not changed. Sometimes their proximity to the past gives a clearer perspective than modern works by scholars who weren't even born when the transcribed events took place.
I agree with Billy the future looks great for packaging and delivery of Logos. [D] Bottle of red, bottle of white.....
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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