Searching for All Forms of Articular Noun in Greek

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Posts 52
Dan Starcevich | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Apr 21 2012 6:26 AM

I am sure this must be covered somewhere but I sure can't seem to hunt it down. How do I do this in Logos 4. I want to find all forms of "sin" in greek, with the article.

 

Thanks!

Posts 1649
Room4more | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 21 2012 6:54 AM

Dan,

‘sin’ with an article is as broad as it is long. I suggest that you pick a version you are familiar with and do a search of ‘sin’ then go from there….

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Gary O'Neal | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 21 2012 7:27 AM

Dan Starcevich:
I want to find all forms of "sin" in greek, with the article.

Dan,

Here's what I came up with - I'm sure those who know the syntactical searches better than me will give better pointers, but I've found the OpenText databases easier to use. Also, I find an example of what I'm looking for, and try to recreate it's structure in my search.

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Posts 52
Dan Starcevich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 21 2012 7:35 AM

thanks for the reply but this is not what I am looking for.

Posts 52
Dan Starcevich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 21 2012 7:36 AM

thanks gary! I will give it a try

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Room4more | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 21 2012 8:04 AM

Dan Starcevich:

thanks for the reply but this is not what I am looking for.

Could you be a little more specific--?

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 21 2012 8:09 AM

HI Dan

Can I just explore a bit further what you are trying to do?

Dan Starcevich:
I want to find all forms of "sin" in greek, with the article.

Do you want to find all the different Greek words "behind" the word "sin" in a particular English translation which then have an article associated with them?

If so, then a possible approach would be:

Find the word "sin" in your translation of choice. I expect you will already have one in mind, if not you can use the Logos search function to find one.

Right-click on the word "sin" and use the Bible Word Study function.

If you look at the "Greek Words" section of the resulting report you will see something like this:

This tells you the different words which are translated as sin and, if you click on any of them, you will run a search against that specific Greek word. Taking ἁμαρτία as an example you get results like this

If you click on the first reference you will open your translation to that point from which you can do a lemma search against that word

giving you something like this

 

If you then extend the search to specify the article I think you get what you want

You would then need to repeat this for each Greek word you were interested in.

More details on use of the search function are at http://wiki.logos.com/Detailed_Search_Help

Apologies if I have misunderstood what you are looking for!

Graham

Posts 584
Gary O'Neal | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 21 2012 8:10 AM

Dan Starcevich:

thanks gary! I will give it a try

Dan,

I exported the results of a lemma search for sin (<Lemma = lbs/el/ἁμαρτία>) and exported it to Excel - then manually sent through and deleted those which were not articular. My final result (from a quick run through) was 90 -- so evidently my original search is missing some. I don't have time to look at this any closer right now--maybe I can later today.

 

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Room4more | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 21 2012 8:23 AM

I think the whole thread is confusing [by definition i gatherd it was a simple request for something not known how to do, i was unaware that he may have been a 'power' user-----my bad/my Apology]:

 

articular (ɑːˈtɪkjʊlə)
adj
of or relating to joints or to the structural components in a joint
[C15: from Latin articulāris concerning the joints, from articulus small joint; see article ]

    Medical Dictionary

articular ar·tic·u·lar (är-tĭk'yə-lər)
adj.
Of or relating to a joint or joints.

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Posts 52
Dan Starcevich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 21 2012 8:28 AM

thanks everyone. I think I have this working now. What I am doing is searching the NA27 text of Romans for every instance of any form of the phrase ὁ ἁμαρτία

 

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Room4more | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 21 2012 8:34 AM

Now that makes sense….glad to hear you got it working.

By the way where did you get the term ‘articular noun’?...thanks

 

Arthrous GR Synonym for "articular."
Articular GR With the article. In reference to a noun. Greek does not have an indefinite article. Nouns either occur with the article (hO) - and are thus articular - or without it. Greek often uses the article in places where the definite article would be awkward in English, and translators generally omit the article in translation in these cases. See Anarthrous.

By definition it would not matter if it does or does not..........

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Posts 52
Dan Starcevich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 21 2012 8:36 AM

thanks room4more. In the context of greek grammar 'articular' means that the noun has with it the definite article. In my study I am trying to see if there is some grammatical marker in Romans or the other Pauline epistles that would indicate whether he is referring to sin as a principle or as an act.

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Gary O'Neal | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 21 2012 8:37 AM

Dan Starcevich:
What I am doing is searching the NA27 text of Romans for every instance of any form of the phrase ὁ ἁμαρτία

Just for kicks--how many have you found? My syntactical search above found 23 -- my spreadsheet showed 31.

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Posts 52
Dan Starcevich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 21 2012 8:39 AM

I probably picked up the phrase "articular noun" in reference to a noun with the definate article when I learned koine greek at DTS

Posts 52
Dan Starcevich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 21 2012 8:44 AM

Hi Gary, I am searching the OpenAText.org test not NA (my bad) and get 23 hits too

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Room4more | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 21 2012 8:45 AM

Dan Starcevich:

thanks room4more. In the context of greek grammar 'articular' means that the noun has with it the definite article. In my study I am trying to see if there is some grammatical marker in Romans or the other Pauline epistles that would indicate whether he is referring to sin as a principle or as an act.

Do not mean to be rude, but it may sound as such. read what I posted about articular[above]....it does or does not have to contain the article, it would be by contextual variance......

such as "if we confess our sin...."....is there an article?

Vines: OUR, OURS

Notes:

 

(1) This usually translates hemon, the genitive of hemeis, "we," lit., "of us," e.g., Matt. 6:9, 11-12. It is translated "ours," e.g., in Mark 12:7; Luke 20:14; 1 Cor. 1:2; 2 Cor. 1:14. (2) In 1 John 4:17, the phrase meta hemon, rendered "our (love)" in the kjv, is accurately translated in the rv "(herein is love made perfect) with us," i.e., divine love in Christ finds its expression in "our" manifestation of it to others. (3) In Luke 17:5, "increase our faith" is, lit., "add faith to us." (4) In Luke 24:22, "of our company" is, lit., "from among us." (S) Hemeteros, a possessive pronoun, more emphatic than hemeis, is used in Luke 16:12, in the best mss. (some have humeteros, "your own"); Acts 2:11; 24:6, in some mss.; 26:5; 2 Tim. 4:15; Titus 3:14, "ours"; 1 John 1:3; 2:2, "ours." (6) In Luke 23:41, "of our deeds," is, lit., "of what things we practiced." (7) In 1 Cor. 9:10, "for our sake," rv (twice), is, lit., "on account of us." \

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Gary O'Neal | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 21 2012 8:52 AM

Dan Starcevich:

Hi Gary, I am searching the OpenAText.org test not NA (my bad) and get 23 hits too

I looked at my search and modified it a bit. It now returns 30 hits for Romans. The one it misses is where postpositive gar comes between the article and noun (7:11). Here's the updated search:

 

 

Actually simpler than my earlier one. Here's my list of hits from the spreadsheet:

 

Romans 4:7
Romans 5:12
Romans 5:12
Romans 5:20
Romans 5:21
Romans 6:1
Romans 6:2
Romans 6:6
Romans 6:6
Romans 6:7
Romans 6:10
Romans 6:11
Romans 6:12
Romans 6:13
Romans 6:17
Romans 6:18
Romans 6:20
Romans 6:22
Romans 6:23
Romans 7:5
Romans 7:7
Romans 7:8
Romans 7:9
Romans 7:11
Romans 7:13
Romans 7:13
Romans 7:14
Romans 7:23
Romans 8:2
Romans 8:3
Romans 11:27

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Posts 52
Dan Starcevich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 21 2012 8:55 AM

I don't think you're rude. No problem. I am not following your argument with reference to the definite article in Greek. I think your reference says that in greek the noun either has the definite article (articular) or does not (anarthous). If it has the article then it indicates that a specific reference is in mind. For example The God instead of just god. It also has other nuances.

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Room4more | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 21 2012 9:25 AM

Dan Starcevich:

I don't think you're rude. No problem. I am not following your argument with reference to the definite article in Greek. I think your reference says that in greek the noun either has the definite article (articular) or does not (anarthous). If it has the article then it indicates that a specific reference is in mind. For example The God instead of just god. It also has other nuances.

[bold,underlined] Correct. If it does not then it can possibly be an application, but it would still have to remain in the context of the verse(s) or passage, and the current audiance....such as Romans 4.7 and so on.....

ok b-fast is ready....going to go stuff myself............

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Gary O'Neal | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 21 2012 9:59 AM

Gary O'Neal:
Here's my list of hits from the spreadsheet:

And add 7:17 and 7:20 to that list.

That's what's always made me uncomfortable with my search results from the syntactical databases--I always wonder if I've accounted for some other form--in this case words coming between the search terms. As I understand its intent, you should be able to include and <Anything> tag, but I've not been able to get this to work. I have the most confidence in small searches like this to do a regular search for one term and export to Excel then manually delete the ones not matching what I'm looking for.

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