British Bibles on Pre-Pub NEB and REB
Comments
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It is wonderful news, REB is a favourite of mine, i have pre ordered both i just hope enough people preorder them to get them under contract soon it is sad when things are on the edge of production levels.
-dan
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Finally. Love the REB
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Disclosure!
trulyergonomic.com
48G AMD octacore V9.2 Acc 120 -
I was hoping that they would be available for the mobile devices like the ios and android platforms, but as usual for Oxford books they aren't. Still have to ponder it.
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My bad - I see they updated the pages and it is available for the iphone. Now I have to ante up the money and get it.
I have the NEB from way back in the 70's - does anyone have a quick overview of the differences betweenthe NEB and the REB?
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http://www.bible-researcher.com/reb.html
http://englishbibles.blogspot.com/2005/04/reb-revised-english-bible.html
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Roth, the REB is said to be good for the Pauline Epistles and the Apocrypha.
Smith, for which parts of the Bible (or even verses) do You use it? Do You find presbyterial or reformed bias in it?Disclosure!
trulyergonomic.com
48G AMD octacore V9.2 Acc 120 -
I use it for the whole thing. I find it readable and well done. No translation is perfect and while I have a few issues with it, I have issues with all the available translations from time to time.
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Unix said:
Do You find presbyterial or reformed bias in it?
No, I don't find the REB having a sectarian bias; the revision had a broadly ecumenical team on it. I use 6 Bibles consistently with occasional dips into others depending on the purpose.
- NRSV - my first standard for study
- NAB/NABRE/CEV/RSV - my standard for liturgy
- JPS - my standard for Old Testament
- JB/NJB - first favorite of two for reading
- NEB/REB - my second standard for study - the assigned translation as an undergraduate
- Community - second favorite for reading
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Do you think the British English to be any kind of hindrance for American readers? I don't have any experience with this translation, but was interested in a translation that uses a higher level of English.MJ. Smith said:/REB - my second standard for study
"For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power"
Wiki Table of Contents0 -
Being Canadian maybe i have a i higher level of education to some in the US, I do not know, but i can tell you that the translation is no more difficult than the New Jerusalem Bible or for that matter the New Revised Standard Version. There is the standard variant spellings, but few obscure words and none that I can think of you would't encounter in the KJV which is generally regarded at university level for proper comprehension.
-Dan
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Bump
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from an Irish Catholic site (note these are all deemed readable by us lay folks ... British vs. American is really not an issue ... if you can read any of them you'll be okay with the NEB/REB):
Bibles highly regarded for accuracy and readability
The
following seven English translations of the bible have appeared since
1950. All have a reasonably high degree of accuracy and readability.- The Revised Standard Version (RSV) was commissioned
in 1937 and completed in 1952 was the work of American scholars. It
was based on the American Standard Version, itself a revision done in
1901 of the King James Version and became accepted on both sides of the
Atlantic as a dignified and accurate translation. - The New Revised Standard Version (NRSV 1990) made
use of newly found manuscripts and it does have a good balance between
accuracy and readability, but it did not find the same acceptance as its
predecessor because of its uncompromising use of inclusive language
(using ‘their’ to avoid ‘his/her’ and the addition of ‘and sisters’
where translators considered the text was addressed to women as well as
men). - The Jerusalem Bible (JB 1966) was the work of a
distinguished literary panel of Catholics working in England under the
editorship of Alexander Jones. It was a translation of the French Bible de Jérusalem
incorporating all its scholarship and excellent notes and had a
freshness that was free from traditional biblical language. This has
been adopted as the liturgical text in the Lectionary (except the Psalms
which are The Grail England 1963 translation) in the Lectionary throughout most of the Catholic English speaking world, except the USA. - The New Jerusalem Bible (NJB 1985) edited by Henry
Wansbrough OSB is a completely fresh translation that uses inclusive
language wherever possible, but without the rigour of the later NRSV.
However JB (1966) continues to be the accepted liturgical text. - The New English Bible (NEB 1970) initiated by the
Church of Scotland in 1946 and completed in 1970 was an attempt to break
away from the mould of ‘biblical English’. It is a
‘thought-for-thought’ version as distinct from ‘word-for-word’ that has
freshness and modernity. The Bible Society and most of the mainstream
churches participated in revising this and it reappeared as the - Revised English Bible (REB 1989): while its solutions to translation problems are apt, it moves more towards paraphrase than accurate translation.
- The Good News Bible (GNB 1976) was sponsored by the American Bible Society. Published on both sides of the Atlantic – sub-titled Today’s English Version in the USA and in Britain as Today’s Good News
– its purpose was to make the bible accessible to people whose English
is less sophisticated. This has led to some loss of the rich biblical
imagery and vocabulary (God’s ‘right hand’ and ‘mighty arm’ become
simply his ‘power’; ‘reconciliation’ becomes simply ‘making friends’,
but the difficult suitcase word ‘righteousness’ is retained. Excellent
for young people and those for whom English is a second language.
Illustrated throughout with thoughtful and witty line-drawings that
combine humour with reverence. - The New American Standard Bible (NASB 1971) was a revision of the 1901 American Standard Bible
that took special care to reflect the original Greek and Hebrew words.
Sometimes people feel it overdoes this, even to the point of obscurity.
For example, in 1 Thess 4:4 it retains the word ‘vessel’ where it is
clear that what is meant is ‘body. Compare: NASB: (God wants) “each of
you to know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and
honour” with NJB: (God wants) “each one of you to know how to control
his body in a way that is holy and honourable”.
Even judged by the principles it lays down for itself, NASB 1971 is not - The New American Bible (NAB) is the official
American Roman Catholic version. The Old Testament was translated in
1970, but was heavily criticised which led to a radical new translation
of the New Testament published in 1986. However, two features of the
translation were disallowed by Vatican guidelines in 1997 and 2001 – the
use of dynamic equivalence (that is, not sufficiently accurate in
rendering the verbal shape of the original language) and inclusive
language. A new translation was then done of passages for use in the
liturgy, the Amended Revised New American Bible, and this work is
continuing. - The New International Version (NIV 1978, Revised 1984)
is an explicitly Protestant translation – the deuterocanonical books
are not included - undertaken to meet the perceived need of having an
updated Bible in contemporary English but which preserved traditional
evangelical theology on contested points. It is from original
manuscripts. It involved 100 scholars from the USA, Canada, the United
Kingdom, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa. The translation work
was done under the auspices of the International Bible Society and
Zondervan Publishing House. The range of theologians includes over 20
different denominations such as Baptists, Evangelicals, Methodists and
many more.
fully successful. At Mark 15:39 it inserts the definite article where
the Greek does not have one: it translates - “Truly this was the Son of
God”. What the pagan centurion actually said, with a strange poignancy,
was: “Truly this was a son of a god” - which the Christian can
understand on a totally different plane.=====
Note that the ESV appears to be accepted in Africa and the Community Bible in the Philippines.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 - The Revised Standard Version (RSV) was commissioned
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MJ. Smith said:
The Jerusalem Bible (JB 1966) was the work of a
distinguished literary panel of Catholics working in England under the
editorship of Alexander Jones. It was a translation of the French Bible de Jérusalem
incorporating all its scholarship and excellent notes and had a
freshness that was free from traditional biblical language. This has
been adopted as the liturgical text in the Lectionary (except the Psalms
which are The Grail England 1963 translation) in the Lectionary throughout most of the Catholic English speaking world, except the USA.This is misleading……quoting form WIKI, but confirmed in the introductory material in the JB...
This French translation served as the impetus for an English translation in 1966, the Jerusalem Bible.
For the majority of the books, the English translation was an original
translation of the Hebrew and Greek; in passages with more than one
interpretation, the French is generally followed. For a small number of
Old Testament books, the first draft of the English translation was made
directly from the French, and then the General Editor produced a
revised draft by comparing this word-for-word to the original Hebrew or
Aramaic.The footnotes and book introductions are almost literal translations from the French._________________________
So the French translation influenced choices in matter of interpretation but it is still directly from original languages. It was the official translation for the Catholic church in Canada till the early 1990s when the NRSV was adopted, still in use today with minor changes for the liturgy.
-Dan
PS: I know this is just copied off a website, but it has always upset me that people consider JB a translation from french (yes the study material was, translation is from the hebrew/greek, with a few small exceptions, which were reviewed in light of the original languages before publication).
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Dan Francis said:
PS: I know this is just copied off a website, but it has always upset me that people consider JB a translation from french (yes the study material was, translation is from the hebrew/greek, with a few small exceptions, which were reviewed in light of the original languages before publication).
You're correct - I should have caught that.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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The NEB is almost there, the REB seems to have stalled. These are must have Bibles.
It is amazing the original NEB is more popular that the REB. I suppose because it is the more radical of the two.
Cambridge are you watching this?
Could this be the start of the NEW ENGLISH BIBLE REVIVAL (at least on Logos)?[;)]
Time to get these resources out of pre-pub
Fellow Logos users we need your help
Thanks
P A
http://www.logos.com/product/24552/the-new-english-bible-with-the-apocrypha
http://www.logos.com/product/24537/the-revised-english-bible-with-the-apocrypha
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P A said:
It is amazing the original NEB is more popular that the REB.
How do you know? If REB costs them more it will have a lower percentage even if the number of buyers is the same. And it's not unthinkable that REB does cost them more. Since it's a revision, they may well have to pay both NEB and REB royalties for it. Plus it's cheaper, so that reason alone will make it need more orders to reach the same percentage.
The bottom line is, you can never look at two progress bars and assume that you know which one has most orders. There are too many factors you don't know.
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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fgh
You could be right my friend,
however the price of the NEB is higher than the REB, so it seems people are willing to pay more for NEB to get it into production sooner.
My preference is for the NEB, however I would like to have both.
Can someone from Logos adjudicate on this?
Why is the cost of NEB higher than REB?
Does it take more people to get the REB into production than NEB?
The NEB is more popular on Logos than REB! True or False?
P A[:D]
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P A said:
Can someone from Logos adjudicate on this? Why is the cost of NEB higher than REB?
I think Logos never discloses details about product prices. But NEB has simply more pages than REB (for whatever reason) and this may be a strong factor. Also, prices often are made by publishers who maybe want to retain a certain price level accross their media offerings etc.
Have joy in the Lord!
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NB.Mick said:
NEB has simply more pages than REB (for whatever reason) and this may be a strong factor.
Two English Bibles, both with Apocrypha, and one based on the other, can, by definition, not differ all that much in word count. I can only think of two ways to make one nearly twice as many pages as the other:
- Include a lot of notes.
- Use a larger font, wider margins and/or smaller pages.
Judging by the sample pages the correct answer is 2, hence the page count difference is essentially irrelevant to Logos' production costs.
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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The 2 column format of the REB is much more efficient in it's use of space, also poetic formatting can create much less efficient use of the page too. I own both there are not a large difference in the amount of footnotes, other than there being more footnotes in the NEB do to it's rearranging of Biblical texts out of traditional verse ordering. Both remove John 7:53-8:10 to it's own separate page after the close of John.
-Dan
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List of The NEB Translators
General Director: C. H. Dodd. Old Testament Panel: The Rev. Professor W. D. McHardy, The Rev. Professor B. J. Roberts, The Rev. Professor A. R. Johnson, The Rev. Professor J. A. Emerton, The Very Rev. Dr. C. A.Simpson, Professor Sir Godfrey Driver (Convener), The Rev. L. H. Brockington, The Rev. Dr. N. H. Snaith, The Rev. Professor N. W. Porteous, The Rev. Professor H. H. Rowley, The Very Rev. C. H. Dodd (ex officio), and Miss P. P. Allen (Secretary).
Apocrypha Panel: The Rev. Professor W. D. McHardy (Convener), The Rev. Professor W. Barclay, The Rev. Professor W. H. Cadman, The Rev. Dr. G. B. Caird, The Rev. Professor C. F. D. Moule, The Rev. Professor J. R. Porter, The Rev. G. M. Styler.
New Testament Panel: The Rev. Professor C. H. Dodd (Convener), The Very Rev. Dr. G. S. Duncan, The Rev. Dr. W. F. Howard, The Rev. Professor G. D. Kilpatrick, The Rev. Professor T. W. Manson, The Rev. Professor C. F. D. Moule, The Rt. Rev. J. A. T. Robinson, The Rev. G. M. Styler, The Rev. Professor R. V. G. Tasker.
Other translators who participated: The Rev. Professor G. W. Anderson, The Very Rev. Principal Matthew Black, The Rev. Professor J. Y. Campbell, The Most Rev. J. A. F. Gregg, The Rev. H. St J. Hart, The Rev. Professor F. S. Marsh, The Rev. Professor John Mauchline, The Rev. Dr. H. G. Meecham, The Rev. Professor C. R. North, The Rev. Professor O. S. Rankin, The Rev. Dr. Nigel Turner.
Literary Panel: Professor Sir Roger Mynors, Professor Basil Willey, Sir Arthur Norrington, Mrs. Anne Ridler, The Rev. Canon Adam Fox, Dr. John Carey, and the Conveners of the Translation Panels.
Do you recognise any names on the list?
Is Professor W Barclay the same person who wrote the Daily Study Bible?
Is this list correct?[8-|]
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Sometimes waiting for a Pre-pub to cross the line can be frustrating ! [8o|]
It is like watching someone run a marathon[sn]
I feel like I want to throw a wet sponge at them[Y] and shout
Come on NEB , Come on REB you can do it![H][Y]
Still think NEB will win the race[:D][Y]
http://www.logos.com/product/24552/the-new-english-bible-with-the-apocrypha
http://www.logos.com/product/24537/the-revised-english-bible-with-the-apocrypha
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P A said:
Sometimes waiting for a Pre-pub to cross the line can be frustrating !
OK, let's put things in a little perspective here. I've been waiting two years for
and a number of other items that aren't even close.
Then there's
which crossed the line about 1,5 years ago.
And there are plenty of people here who have waited longer still.
When were yours put on prepub again?
Patience is a virtue, they say.
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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NB.Mick said:P A said:
Can someone from Logos adjudicate on this? Why is the cost of NEB higher than REB?
I think Logos never discloses details about product prices. But NEB has simply more pages than REB (for whatever reason) and this may be a strong factor. Also, prices often are made by publishers who maybe want to retain a certain price level accross their media offerings etc.
NEB is more expensive simply because REB has an electronic text to start with. NEB must be scanned in, also NEB is single column format, verses in the margins which means one must put the verse numbers into the text. Also the NEB has much rearranging of the text order in the OT, which may be more complex to reference than the REB that has more often than not accepted traditional verse ordering.
-Dan
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Dan Francis said:
REB has an electronic text to start with. NEB must be scanned in
I think they've stopped scanning. The result wasn't good enough, especially for Bibles. So if there isn't an electronic file, they are in all likelihood typing it in, and I believe they use three or four separate typists for Bibles, and then compare every discrepancy. So that would certainly explain the cost.
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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Good point! It never occured to me that NEB was pre-digital age.
That is why we should get into production as soon as possible. The NEB is a very important historical Bible .
[8-|][Y]
P A
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P A said:
Good point! It never occured to me that NEB was pre-digital age.
That is why we should get into production as soon as possible. The NEB is a very important historical Bible .
P A
Very true and really the first major translation by a broad group to actually critically look at the text and translate it freshly rather than more or less saying we are starting here in the english how should we revise it. I will not say it is the most important translation of the 20th century, but it is definitely one of the most important ones, for it's boldness and early ecumenical translation work. Without it who knows if other groups would have been so bold as to go ahead with fresh translations like the NIV (not one of my top favourites, but a good translation overall, and by far the most popular modern translation in many circles). I do find it funny how peoples view on translations change, i know many conservatives, absolutely hated the RSV when it came out but 50 years later they basically brush it up a bit make some minor changes and rerelease it as the ESV (not a bad thing considering how annoying the thees and thous of the RSV could be).
-Dan
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