Theology/Denomination Tags

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David Wanat | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 12 2022 10:00 AM

Is it currently possible to do searches within denominations?

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Sean Boisen | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 12 2022 10:13 AM

David Wanat:

Is it currently possible to do searches within denominations?

Assuming you mean searches within content annotated for a denomination (typically the denomination of the author) ...

I missed one: some resources have a "subject reference" (Factbook) categorization indicating their denomination, which you can find on the left sidebar in Library > Factbook (like https://ref.ly/logos4/Library?SelectedFacetTermsEscaped=LibraryGroup_SubjectReferences_BeliefSystem%7cBelief%2520System%7cLibraryTermSubjectReference_bk.%2525Anglicanism_Belief%257CAnglicanism). I believe you could make a Collection for those resources with a given subject reference tag, and then search within that collection. That's not quite the same as what you're asking for, since you have to manage this yourself, but perhaps it's a reasonable workaround depending on your use case. 

We have no denomination annotation of content within a resource, and no plans to do so anytime soon as far as I know. 

Posts 594
Andrew Baguley | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 23 2022 11:48 AM

I started the Theology/Denominations Tags project to show what could be done, in the hope that Logos would take it on. Some years later, Logos have taken it on. Here are some thoughts on the progress they have made with it so far.

What Is Working Well

Fullness: The Logos Factbook entries go beyond the initial project in some ways.  The data/information about people stretches to bibliographies, links to works by and about the people, and is broken down in helpful ways (media, sermons, etc.)

Information on J I Packer is great, with instantly available pictures of him at different stages of life.  Similarly, there is a wealth of information on George Abbot, a former Archbishop of Canterbury, with linked dictionary entries, although he isn’t categorised as Anglican, never mind Church of England, despite being listed as an Archbishop of Canterbury.  Clearly, the entry has seen some focus, as it gives his dates of birth and death, going beyond the dictionary entries, which give only his year of birth and year of death.

Denomination: There was initially a reluctance to add much granularity.  My project tried to capture Stream (e.g., Anglican) and Denomination (e.g., Church of England).  It looks like this is now available for many people.  Thanks, Logos.

Subject vs Belief System: There was a question regarding whether I should have categorised resources about the Church of England under Church of England.  I suggested that this was a different category from resources coming from Church of England authors.  It is great to see that Logos reflects that difference, with “Subject: Church of England” quite different from “Belief System: Church of England”.

What Isn’t Working So Well

Country Missing: It would have been great if place could have featured for people.  For some people, this may require multiple entries, as people move, but most people have at least a Main Country, as in my initial project spreadsheet.

Data Hard to Find: While it is easy to find authors from the Anglican Church of Kenya.  (There’s only one: John Mbiti – type “Anglican” in the factbook filter text box, click on “Anglican Church of Kenya”.) It is harder to find authors from the Church of England, as there are so many.  (There is no category under People, so type “England”, click on Church of England”.)  It seems you have to click “More” many times before you can see Gordon J Wenham, for example, under Authors on the Church of England page.

Levels: Authors listed under Anglicanism only includes authors without any further granularity.  Hence, it does not include John Mbiti or the hundreds of authors in the Church of England, despite them being Anglican.

Data Issues

Clearly the data is incomplete and questionable in places, presumably having been automatically generated.  For example:

Douglas A – from Foster, G.H.& D.A. (2015) Renewing the world. Abilene, TX: Leafwood Publishers.

His name is Douglas A Foster, rather than Douglas A.  The citation is misleading, as the book is by Gary Holloway and Douglas A Foster.  The information page shows that it is by Foster Holloway, Gary Holloway and Douglas A.  What chance did the automatic process have with that kind of data accuracy?

Cohen A – curiously this person (?) has no associated media, works or anything else, and is simply listed as a person, neither male nor female, and with no other bibliographic information.  It’s hard to trace how this “person” was created.

Lin Aaron – co-wrote Afghanistan at transition: the lessons of the longest war, which is available from https://ebooks.faithlife.com/product/75423/afghanistan-at-transition-the-lessons-of-the-longest-war   Clearly, the entries are not limited to theology, biblical studies or religion.

“London, England”, Wales and Scotland are in the Factbook filter list, but not England, and there are more entries for London, Wales and Scotland added together than there are for Great Britain – another granularity issue?

In the library, if I filter on Belief System: Lutheranism, I don’t even get all of Luther’s Works, never mind many of the other Lutheran authors in my library.

It is unclear why “Assembly at Glasgow” comes under “Subject: Church of England”.  Glasgow is not in England, there is no mention of the Church of England in the resource and the reference to “General and Synodical Assemblies, Presbyteries, and Sessions” in the resource points to the non-Anglican, but Presbyterian, system it relates to, within the Church of Scotland.

These are only a few illustrative cases of the many problems caused by poor data.

Requests

Resource information: In the Library, clicking a resource allowed the Stream and Denomination to be seen in the initial project, as it also did in the Information screen for each resource.  This was really helpful.  It would be even better if Logos displayed the header data for each author on the information screen.  For example, for Warren W Wiersbe books, it could display “May 16, 1929 - . Baptist, Author, Man, Pastor, Teacher.  1929 –“, as per his Factbook entry.  This would be really helpful.

Searches Using Factbook Entries: Can Belief System and other Factbook categories (e.g., Person: Bishop, Person: Abolitionist, Places: London) be used for searches?  If not, can these be added?

Composite Filters/Searches: The project spreadsheet enabled a (relatively) quick search to be done for resources by Lutheran women, or Baptists born between 1800 and 1900.  I’m not sure how these kinds of composite searches can be done with the current Factbook, or elsewhere in Logos.  Could this be made possible?

With these three facilities and a great deal of work on the data, the initial project could probably be safely retired, although it would still be good if Logos displayed the data more transparently, so that searching, sorting and gaining an overview of the data were easier.

Verdict

Getting Better, Still Some Way to Go

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Sean Boisen | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 23 2022 12:55 PM

Thanks Andrew for kickstarting this project, and for these helpful comments. Some selective responses:

  • "Country missing": this doesn't current fit our data schema, but longer term I hope we'll add it.
  • "Data hard to find": Factbook doesn't have the kind of general query mechanism that would support queries like "show authors associated with the Anglican church" (walking down into the various denominations associated with this tradition), and some of those results might be lengthy enough that simply displaying them would be a poor experience. 
  • I agree that it should be easier to get information about authors from the Library Panel: I'll pass that suggestion along to Mark Barnes, our product manager.
  • We have plans to improve Factbook's data on roles like Bishop, Abolitionist etc.: stay tuned.
  • We're doing ongoing work to improve the quality of Person records: we know there's both a lot of missing and incorrect information. We now have well over 100k authors in our dataset, so it's a massive task.

Overall, the best way to improve the data for now is to report errors you find. There's been a lot of helpful feedback in this thread: https://community.logos.com/forums/p/195544/1202561.aspx. You can also email data@faithlife.com.

Posts 594
Andrew Baguley | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 23 2022 2:11 PM

Sean Boisen:

Thanks Andrew for kickstarting this project, and for these helpful comments. Some selective responses:

...

Thanks, Sean.  Very helpful.

One of the most limiting issues is that filters are only positive: Resources with this attribute

I don't suppose it would be possible to include negative filters: Resources without this attribute (e.g., Anglican but not Church of England, or just NOT Subjects:Fiction)

This would be incredibly useful on the website, as well as in Logos.

Posts 6054
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 23 2022 6:21 PM

Andrew Baguley:

One of the most limiting issues is that filters are only positive: Resources with this attribute

I don't suppose it would be possible to include negative filters: Resources without this attribute (e.g., Anglican but not Church of England, or just NOT Subjects:Fiction)

This would be incredibly useful on the website, as well as in Logos.

The ANDNOT operator works in the Search and Library panels. You can put a * in front of ANDNOT in order to functionally create an initial NOT.

"God commands you to pray, but He forbids you to worry." - The Curé d'Ars.

Posts 594
Andrew Baguley | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 24 2022 1:30 AM

SineNomine:

The ANDNOT operator works in the Search and Library panels. You can put a * in front of ANDNOT in order to functionally create an initial NOT.

Thanks, SineNomine. That appears to work well.  It would be great if the graphical interface supported it as well (a tick or a cross next to each option in the filter?), but I can live with the text version.

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Mark Barnes (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 27 2022 6:04 AM

Andrew Baguley:
Composite Filters/Searches: The project spreadsheet enabled a (relatively) quick search to be done for resources by Lutheran women, or Baptists born between 1800 and 1900.  I’m not sure how these kinds of composite searches can be done with the current Factbook, or elsewhere in Logos.  Could this be made possible?

There would be a lot of benefit in being able to search Factbook by property or category - not just for the data in this project, but also to allow searches for things like "All the mountains in Judah", and "All the women from Galilee". It's fairly difficult to pull off simply, - but it's definitely under consideration.

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