I am very happy to have the NJB in Logos and would love the chance to buy the Jerusalem Bible, especially if they got the full Bible with it's notes.

-Dan

http://www.tyndale.org/TSJ/6/day.html

Has a good comparison of translation styles… NO translation is perfect and the original JB had serious flaws… The Psalms in the original JB I was told had several places where Yahweh was removed for stylistic reasons and replaced by God, I am told all these have been corrected in the NJB. Obviously each translation has flaws, the one pointed out above as you pointed out means the same thing although removes the mystical number 3, which is most sad, Judaism has always held several numbers in high regard (40, 3, 1, 7, 12, 10, and perhaps to a lesser extent 5 ). I am lucky enough to own the JB in 3 copies (the Large readers edition with Dali's art work, an imitation leather readers edition and the standard edition with slipcover) and I will consider myself extremely lucky to get it in Logos if we have the chance. The notes are important in these editions for explaining choices and translation anomalies, very often i see lit. "whatever" and then stating why a less than literal translation is made. I feel JB will be a wonderful addition to Logos, and I hope they go after it, but I will continue to use and love the NJB.

-Dan

Dan Francis said:

PSALM 23 The Good Shepherd
Psalm of David.

Yahweh is my shepherd,
I lack nothing.

In meadows of green grass He lets me lie.
To the waters of repose He leads me;
there He revives my soul.

He guides me by paths of virtue
for the sake of His name.

Though I pass through a gloomy valley,
I fear no harm;
beside me Your rod and Your staff
are there, to hearten me.

You prepare a table before me
under the eyes of my enemies;
You anoint my head with oil,
my cup brims over.

Ah, how goodness and kindness pursue me,
every day of my life;
my home, the house of Yahweh,
as long as I live!

 

I'm sort of foud of it!             Guess maybe eventually I'll have to do my own translation

Peace, Dan!              I always appreciate your sharings!     *smile* 

 How beautiful is God's Word!  How Beautiful our Christian Faith!

              Oh taste and see that the Lord is good!      Psalm 34:8

Come, everyone who thirsts,

come to the waters;
and he who has no money,

e
Come, buy wine and milk
without money and without price.
2　Why do you spend your money for that which is not bread,
and your labor for that which does not satisfy?
Listen diligently to me, and eat what is good,
and delight yourselves in rich food. Isaiah 55:1-2
come, buy and eat!

     Part of my problem is I have so many favourite "Scripture Passages" and so many favourite Bibles that I'm hard-pressed at any given moment to choose and so many favourite Logos Resources!   

                  It's like going into a Vacation Hotel Dining room with a fantastic and splendid smorgasbord!               *smile*

fgh, please remember us this YuleTide!         

Julbord Christmas dinner in Sweden

A special Swedish type of smörgåsbord is the julbord which is the standard Christmas dinner in Sweden. Julbord is a word consisting of the elements jul, meaning Yule (today synonymous with Christmas) and bord, literally table. The classic Swedish julbord is the highlight of Swedish cuisine, a traditional smörgåsbord starting with bread dipped in ham broth and continuing with a variety of fish (salmon, herring, whitefish and eel), ham, small meatballs, head cheese and sausages, potato, boiled or potato casserole, soft and crisp bread, butter and different cheeses, beetroot salad, cabbage (red, brown or green) and rice pudding and beverages.

Peace, Brennan!

          I have the New Jerusalem Bible which I love, available only in U.S. and Canada.  I live in Ontario, Canada.            Where do you live?  If you're in North America, it's available now for you.  *smile*

I have 7 different versions of the Bible. 1) The King James Version, 2) The Revised Standard Version, 3) The Ryrie Study Bible - New American Standard Version, 4) The New International Version, 5) The Darby Translation, 6) The New Revised Standard Version, and 7) The Jerusalem Bible.

I first read the Bible, (Revised Standard Version), cover to cover in 1973; and concluded it was real, because someone, a very long time ago, knew far more about the future than any human being could have possibly known.

I then read the Jerusalem Bible (copyright 1966, by Darton, Longman, and Todd Ltd.) cover to cover taking notes. Wherein any subject that raised my interest, got entered, (subject, chapter, verse-s), on the top of a blank page in my notebook, and any further references to that subject or any related subject, got thier subject, chapter, and verse-s entered on that page.

After that I read all 7 versions that I have, comparing them on a verse by verse basis, to see if any one version was more accurate than others. Once finished, I concluded that the Jerusalem Bible was the most accurate overall of the 7 versions I have, the New Revised Standard Version the second most accurate, and the Darby Translation the third most accurate.

For what it is worth, SEE : http://imageshack.us/a/img407/1921/idiotsheet001.jpg

SEE ALSO : http://studygodsletter.org/index.php?topic=30.0

Peace, JHM!            *smile*             Welcome to the Logos Forums where Logos Bible Software users from around the world help and encourage and support and enlighten one another 24 hours a day !

            Actually, Logos does not sell The Jerusalem Bible!                   I am very pleased indeed to have The New Jerusalem Bible which seems to be available ONLY in Canada and The United States.     I really like it!           *smile*

The New Jerusalem Bible: Reader's Edition

Doubleday 1990

Milford Charles Murray said:

 Welcome to the Logos Forums where Logos Bible Software users from around the world help and encourage and support and enlighten one another 24 hours a day !

If we're going to do this 24 hrs per day, it only stands to reason that many of us are going to need enlightening at any particular time.  [;)]

Is anyone here interested in WHY I found the Jerusalem Bible to be the most accurate translation of the seven different versions I possess ?

JHM said:

Is anyone here interested in WHY I found the Jerusalem Bible to be the most accurate translation of the seven different versions I possess ?

                                      I am very interested.                      What I think I may have discovered over the years is that one version gets "kudos" on a particular passage ..........                                      another version does another section well ................

                      Later on I'll share my main version   ...    and why I use that one ....              (if this conversation does go that far ...)

Very well, but not easy. My "Scripture Studies Documents" run over 100 pages long.

1) An example is to be found in Genesis 19 : 22-23 (2 of 7 versions accurate)

2) An IMPORTANT example is to be found in Zechariah 6 : 6  (only accurate version)

3) An example is to be found in Isaiah 34 : 14 (3 of 7 versions accurate)

4) An example is to be found at Genesis 31 : 42 & 53 (only accurate version)

5) An example is to be found at Isaiah 34 : 13 (5 of 7 versions accurate)

6) An example is to be found at Revelations 6 : 1-8 (most accurate version)

7) An example is to be found in the "Lord's Prayer" (2 of 7 versions accurate)

See : James 1 : 13 

NOTE : If anyone here wants a copy of my "Scripture Studies", PM me an email address to send them to.

Peace, JHM!

                             *smile*                   Right now I have so many projects going that I would be able to do justice to a serious study of your work; so, I wish you well -- and God's Blessings -- but I'm going to "pass" at this time........

OK, if you can understand it, my email is g(eorg) f(riedrich) somsel in Gulliver's land of the brutes.

Rosie Perera said:

Actually, I would be surprised if spam bots haven't gotten smarter these days such that they're able to detect the pattern username (at) domain (dot) com. I suggest that people encoding their email addresses be more creative than that.

I can't say if they have or not, but I'm glad someone finally said that. Most of the formats often recommended in forums are just as easily scraped with a smart regex or simple parser as if it were written out normally. I strongly agree in using a smarter format such as saying that I have signed this post with my user name and you can use it to find me on gmail, yahoo, live, facebook, twitter, etc. Separating the user from the domain by unusual illegal chars such as a carriage return/line feed and a sentence or two should do wonders.

Kindest Regards,
simsrw73

Do you mean @gmail ? If not, you can join the "Bible Scholars Forum" for free and we can exchange PMs there.

http://biblescholarsforums.com/index.php

You will also find my posts on :

"The Fallen Angels Code"

"The Nicolaitans Code"

and a lot of other interesting items there. Jeremy Chance Springfield, (an expert who has done a literal translation of the "Peshitta"), is also a member there.

As for an example, re Isaiah 34 : 14 (3 of 7 versions accurate - The Jerusalem Bible, The New Revised Standard Version, & The Darby Translation),  SEE :

http://studygodsletter.org/index.php?topic=28.0

Randy W. Sims (Shayne) said:

Twitter, however, is the one thing I know least about of all the forums. I use it because of the Logos deals, and have never bothered learning more. I just spent a few mins trying to figure out how to pm hello.

I don't use it much, but I seem to have amassed a number of followers. Not sure what profound thing they're waiting for me to say.

You can pm someone by going to your profile page (click on "Me") in the toolbar at the top, then click on the envelope icon under your picture, then click "New message", start typing the person's name or Twitter ID, cursor down until you select that person in the list of matches, hit tab, then click in the message body area, type in the text of your message, then click Send Message.

Randy W. Sims (Shayne) said:

As far as spam, I think it also has a lot to do with where you post. So far, I'm elusive... Or at least I haven't been scraped in any of the circles I've been in where I did share my info-Maybe spammers don't like ferrets.

Maybe they haven't been able to ferret you out. Or else your ISP does a good job of filtering spam before you even see it.

BTW, is Shayne your nickname? Do you prefer to go by that or Randy?

Re "The Lord's Prayer" See :

Matthew 6 : 9 - 13 (Darby Translation)

Thus therefore pray ye : Our Father who art in the heavens, let thy name be sanctified, let thy kingdom come, let thy will be done as in heaven so upon the earth; give us to-day our needed bread, and forgive us our debts, as we also forgive our debtors, and lead us not into temptation, but save us from evil.

Matthew 6 : 9 -13 (New International Version)

This then is how you should pray. Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us today our daily bread. Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.

Matthew 6 : 9 - 13 (King James Version)

After this manner therefore pray ye : Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil : For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

Matthew 6 : 9 - 13 (Revised Standard Version)

Pray then like this : Our Father who art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done, On earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread; And forgive us our debts, As we also have forgiven our debtors; And lead us not into temptation, But deliver us from evil.

Matthew 6 : 9 - 13 (Ryrie Study Bible - New American Standard Version)

Pray, then in this way : Our Father who art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, On earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we have forgiven our debtors. And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from evil. [For Thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, forever. Amen.] - Though this may have been added later.

Matthew 6 : 9 - 13 (Jerusalem Bible)

So you should pray like this : Our Father in heaven, may your name be held holy, your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as in heaven. Give us today our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we have forgiven those who are in debt to us. And do not put us to the test, but save us from the evil one.

Matthew 6 : 9 - 13 (New Revised Standard Version)

Pray then in this way : Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name. Your Kingdom come. Your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And do not bring us to the time of trial, but rescue us from the evil one.

Note that there are two different meanings put forth in these seven versions of the "Lord's Prayer". One urges GOD not to lead mankind into temptation, and the other urges GOD not to "Put us to the test" or "Bring us to the time of trial"

Now See :

James 1 : 13 (Darby Translation)

Let no man, being tempted, say, I am tempted of God. For God cannot be tempted by evil things, and himself tempts no one.

James 1 : 13 (New International Version)

When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone.

James 1 : 13 (King James Version)

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God : for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.

James 1 : 13 (Revised Standard Version)

Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am tempted by God", for God cannot be tempted with evil and he himself tempts no one;

James 1 : 13 (Ryrie Study Bible - New American Standard Version)

Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone.

James 1 : 13 (Jerusalem Bible) Temptation

Never, when you have been tempted, say, 'God sent the temptation'; God cannot be tempted to do anything wrong, and he does not tempt anybody.

James 1 : 13 (New Revised Standard Version)

No one, when tempted, should say, "I am being tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil and he himself tempts no one.

Note that the seven versions of James 1 : 13 are consistant in their meaning. GOD DOES NOT TEMPT ANYBODY.

Now See Matthew 13 : 24 - 30 (King James Version)

Matthew 13 24-30: The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares13.25 among the wheat, and went his way. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. So the servants of the householder came and said to him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? From whence then hath it tares? He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

See Note 13.25 Ryrie Study Bible

13.25 : tares. Weeds, in this case probably darnel, which in the blade resembles wheat but which can be distinguished from wheat when fully ripe.

Note : The Jerusalem Bible substitutes "darnel" for "tares" each time they appear in both the foregoing and the following passages. Discussing these passages with someone more knowledgeable than I regards agriculture, I was informed that "Darnel" is a weed which is indistinguishable in appearance from "Wheat" until such time as the wheat bears fruit. The meaning of Matthew 13 : 24 - 30 is made explicitly clear by Matthew 13 : 36 - 43 which follows.

See Matthew 13 : 36 - 43 Ryrie Study Bible.

Matthew 13 36-43 : Then he left the multitude, and went into the house. And his disciples came to Him saying, "Explain to us the parable of the tares in the field." And He answered and said, "The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man, and the field is the world; and as for the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one; and the enemy who sowed them is the devil, and the harvest is the end of the age; and the reapers are angels." "Therefore just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age." "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire; in that place there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." "Then THE RIGHTEOUS WILL SHINE FORTH AS THE SUN  in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear."

Note : The foregoing two passages make it perfectly clear that there ARE "Children of the Devil" on earth NOW, and there have been for a very long time, (Since the days of Jared) .That being the case, there are also TWO "Fathers in heaven", i.e. GOD, and the Devil. Further it would seem to me that "Leading people into temptation" is more the Devil's sort of work.

I pointed all this out to Jeremy Chance Springfield, (an expert translator of the ancient Biblical scripts), and he checked both the Aramaic and the Greek and found : I quote :

"Concerning what you pondered over about "temptations/trials," you may be surprised (as I was) to find out that in BOTH Aramaic and Greek, the word used in each can mean EITHER temptation or trial/test!"

So it would appear that the Bible was arranged to allow people to pray to the "Father" of their choice. Which "Father" do you pray to ?

All this is just ONE example of why I find the Jerusalem Bible to be the most accurate translation overall, though in this specific case the "New Revised Standard Version" is slightly better.

JHM said:

All this is just ONE example of why I find the Jerusalem Bible to be the most accurate translation overall, though in this specific case the "New Revised Standard Version" is slightly better.

I enjoy the JB/NJB because unlike most of our translations the JB, like the NEB, has not stated this is too different… they have looked at the original and made their best educated translation of it. Most all translations you compared are descendants of KJV….even the NIV with all it's claim of fresh translation maintains itself as ultra traditional in it's handling of the texts. Now I value tradition greatly, and do not think it should be ignored but trying to have a fresh look with no preconceived direction is good.

-Dan

JHM said:

1) Mr Springfield has given me to understand that the "New Testament" is available both in "Greek" and "Aramaic".

2) He also made it clear that in BOTH languages the word used could be either translated as "Temptation" or "Trial/Test"

3) The Bible must be consistant. James 1 : 13 very clearly states that GOD does not TEMPT, ergo the correct translation would be "Bring us not to the time of trial"

But believe what you will.

Aramaic is but a translation of the Greek.  You cannot legitimately determine which translation is more correct based upon your desire to be "consistent" in doctrine.  YOU may BELIEVE WHAT YOU WILL, but facts are stubborn things which will come back to bite you in the rear.  We don't even know for sure what language Jesus may have spoken.  In some places it seems that he may have spoken Hebrew while in others it appears he may have spoken Aramaic.  Hebrew and Aramaic are closely related just as English, as it is properly spoken here in the United States [;)] and the British version of English [:D].  Nevertheless, the two are different languages.  I had a discussion with Randall Buth regarding this very matter.  In "Wars" 5.271-272 Josephus says

As for the Jews, they at first watched the coming of the stone, for it was of a white color, and could therefore not only be perceived by the great noise it made, but could be seen also before it came by its brightness; (272) accordingly the watchmen that sat upon the towers gave them notice when the engine was let go, and the stone came from it, and cried out aloud in their own country language, "THE SON COMETH:" so those that were in its way stood off, and threw themselves down upon the ground; by which means, and by their thus guarding themselves, the stone fell down and did them no harm.

Buth contends on this basis that Josephus spoke Hebrew rather than Aramaic since the words "son" and "stone" would not be confused in Aramaic.  I would contend that this is evidence that Josephus DID NOT understand Hebrew.  This is based on

1. The fact that he states that it was τῇ πατρίῳ γλώσσῃ ("in [their native language] which appears to indicate that it was not HIS language.
   
   
   

   
   

    

   
   

   
   
   
   
2. The presumed original must have been בֶן בא in Hebrew which would be a contraction for אֶבֶן בָא. (the aleph would almost be silent) since they certainly would not have announced that a "son" is coming.  אֶבֶן is the word for stone, and they were presumably warning that "A stone is coming."  Josephus was a member of the priestly clan while many of those involved in the insurrection were from Galilee.  It may be that those from Galilee still spoke Hebrew (where was Jesus from?) while those in Judea spoke Aramaic—or it is even possible that Greek was widely used.

I therefore do not support the resort to Aramaic in an attempt to resolve difficulties in the text.

I will ask Mr. Springfield if he wants to contest this issue with you; because he has done a series of literal translations of the Peshitta; and he is of the firm opinion that the Peshitta predates the Greek versions, and has given a very large number of reasons for believing this.

I personally cannot even read the various ancient languages, but I did proofread a large number of Mr. Springfield's literal translations of various books of the Bible, which have very extensive footnotes showing that the Peshitta is the older version. i.e. The Greek was translated from the Peshitta.

JHM said:

I pointed all this out to Jeremy Chance Springfield, (an expert translator of the ancient Biblical scripts), and he checked both thr Aramaic and the Greek

Jeremy Chance Springfield looks like just the kind of person I would trust on matters of scholarly import.  [;)]

So maybe he was just making a goofy face one day. I shouldn't hold that against him. What are his credentials?