Upgrade vs. Crossgrade difference?

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Posts 40
Kevin Edwards | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Nov 1 2012 9:45 PM

What is the difference between upgrading and crossgrading (which I understand isn't available yet) my Platinum package?

  • I assume that the engine is the same (v.5).
  • I understand that upgrading involves paying more to get new books that I don't have.
  • Do both of these options also update the databases to the new databases?
  • Any other differences between these two options?

Thanks for explaining this if you understand how this works.

Posts 3676
BillS | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 1 2012 9:50 PM

Upgrade adds many new books (you can find out which they believe they're adding on the "New to You" view of the comparison page).

Crossgrade gives you "something" more than the base software (I've seen a couple of new modules mentioned that'll only work with the content provided in a crossgrade). You end up with ALL the new functionality of V5 (I think.).

Base software update - If they don't change their business model, eventually, we'll be able to download V5 without the crossgrade, but we won't get the new functionality--which is resource dependent.

Hope this is accurate & helps...

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 1 2012 9:51 PM

Kevin Edwards:

What is the difference between upgrading and crossgrading (which I understand isn't available yet) my Platinum package?

  • I assume that the engine is the same (v.5).
  • I understand that upgrading involves paying more to get new books that I don't have.
  • Do both of these options also update the databases to the new databases?
  • Any other differences between these two options?

Thanks for explaining this if you understand how this works.

We are hypothesizing based on how things were in L4:

Engine is the same (no hypothesis there)

Upgrading pays for the books and the new databases (at least from Silver up)

Both would update the databases (as long as you upgrade to Silver or Gold). (Silver omits one database found in Gold and up.)

Price, and the fact that in a subsequent upgrade cycle you would not have a current base product for Logos to compute an upgrade price from if you only crossgrade. Not sure that would make any difference.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 1 2012 9:56 PM

You will have to take my answer with a grain of salt since Logos hasn't released any details about this yet… 

Kevin Edwards:
I assume that the engine is the same (v.5).

Yes.

Kevin Edwards:
I understand that upgrading involves paying more to get new books that I don't have.

Yes.

Kevin Edwards:
Do both of these options also update the databases to the new databases?

It depends upon which base package you upgrade to. It's a little bit confusing, but forget about what you had before (you will keep all of those resources). The real question is what package do you want to ADD to your account today? (Just because you had "platinum" before doesn't mean you can't get a "lesser" package. Some users have been saying that they are upset that they will have to "downgrade," which is really a misnomer. A downgrade would be losing resources which you currently own… but that is not what you would be doing.)

Kevin Edwards:
Any other differences between these two options?

We'll have to wait & see.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 1 2012 10:27 PM

Kevin Edwards:

What is the difference between upgrading and crossgrading (which I understand isn't available yet) my Platinum package?

  • I assume that the engine is the same (v.5).
  • I understand that upgrading involves paying more to get new books that I don't have.
  • Do both of these options also update the databases to the new databases?
  • Any other differences between these two options?

1. Yes

2. Yes

3. Yes - accepting that Crossgrade is an Upgrade whose features are not known  i.e. Crossgrade should offer you updated material and sufficient new material & new features to give you a taste of what L5 is about. As an example, you should get updated RI's + databases to support root searches + updated People/Things/Places with some of their new features.

4. Price will be less than Starter library!

material = resources and databases

Dave
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fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 1 2012 11:04 PM

Dave Hooton:
As an example, you should get (...) databases to support root searches

Do you really need the crossgrade for that? I can't find roots as a separate database on the upgrade chart, so I would expect to get that even with the free upgrade. But maybe I misread the chart, or they've expressed themselves unclearly?

Dave Hooton:
4. Price will be less than Starter library!

That should be clarified to "less than the full price for Starter Library". My upgrade price for Starter is $25.81. I expect the crossgrade will cost more than that.

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Posts 809
Richard Lyall | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 1 2012 11:10 PM

alabama24:
It depends upon which base package you upgrade to. It's a little bit confusing, but forget about what you had before (you will keep all of those resources). The real question is what package do you want to ADD to your account today? (Just because you had "platinum" before doesn't mean you can't get a "lesser" package. Some users have been saying that they are upset that they will have to "downgrade," which is really a misnomer. A downgrade would be losing resources which you currently own… but that is not what you would be doing.)

Is it a misnomer?

What happens when L6 comes round? Will you be offered an upgrade price on say, L4 Platinum, or L5 Bronze? Or maybe it wouldn't matter, because the upgrade price would be based on the accumulation of resources up to that point?

Posts 59
Adam Lambert | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 1 2012 11:12 PM

My question is since I already have a number of the books that I would be paying for if I upgrade will there be a way to get a discount since I already forked out hundreds of dollars for books like "The New American Commentary" set that I won't be buying twice.

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TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 1 2012 11:21 PM

Adam Lambert:

My question is since I already have a number of the books that I would be paying for if I upgrade will there be a way to get a discount since I already forked out hundreds of dollars for books like "The New American Commentary" set that I won't be buying twice.

Actually you will not be paying for any books you already own. 

If you see NAC showing up in the "New to you" section it is because of new books added to the set. Go ahead and check that out and you'll see what I mean.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 1 2012 11:41 PM

fgh:

Do you really need the crossgrade for that? I can't find roots as a separate database on the upgrade chart, so I would expect to get that even with the free upgrade. But maybe I misread the chart, or they've expressed themselves unclearly?

I didn't say you needed CrossGrade for anything! The chart is unclear, though. I'm talking about a search that requires updated bibles, typically the RI's and some Greek/Hebrew bibles to which 'root' words have been added in addition to lemmas.

"Search this resource"  will generate a search for <Root = lbs/el/νους> - > being one of the roots of this compound word.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 5:05 AM

Richard Lyall:
Is it a misnomer?

Yes. "Downgrade" IS a misnomer. A downgrade would be that you order the BRAND NEW Platinum, have regrets, call Logos up and downgrade to the BRAND NEW gold. Again, forget about the name of the package you had previously. The name is meaningless. When you upgrade, you get a discount not based on your old package name but on the resources you owned (which may or may not have been a part of those packages). 

Richard Lyall:
What happens when L6 comes round?

I have no idea… but I assume it will be the same thing. You will get a discount based upon the resources that you own!

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Posts 40
Kevin Edwards | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 6:21 AM

Bob Pritchett wrote the following:

http://community.logos.com/forums/p/58003/413101.aspx#413101

The Logos 5 engine is only available as part of upgrades at this point. While we plan to offer it sometime in the future, it is not yet released.

Our promise is that you won't need to buy an upgrade to keep access to your books as operating systems change, and that's still the case. (Logos 4.x still runs, is still available, and was even upgrade recently, and has more updates planned.)

I know that many people -- probably including me! -- have "shorthanded" this promise to "the software is free, you only pay for the books!". And the software is free; you can download it and read all your e-books. And eventually Logos 5 engine will be free, too -- just not yet.

Much of what is cool in Logos 5 is closely integrated with brand new (and very expensive to create/acquire!) data sets and content. We believe that the value of Logos 5 is in the combination of these tools and content, and that users will have the best experience with both the software and content together. (We still need to do some tweaking, in fact, to have Logos 5 elegantly handle the case of certain data sets not being available.)

By focusing on paid upgrades to collections/new-content at launch, we're able to:

- Ensure Logos 5 users have a great experience. (Downloading Logos 5 code-only and realizing that much of the new functionality is dependent on missing data could lead to unhappy users / reviews / less-enthusiasm for upgrading.)

- Recover our investment. Yes, the new code and new content and new bundles, all together, are great reasons to upgrade your content bundle. And people are (and should be!) excited about them -- they're great! And since we only get paid for new content -- even though it's expensive to write code, too -- we intentionally try to create that moment of enthusiasm to generate some sales and pay the bills, so we can be here to serve you in the future.

It's like this is a new movie, and we'd really like you to pay to see it in the theater with a drink and some popcorn -- and the whole family! Yes, you can wait till it's broadcast on TV for free, but that free broadcast doesn't pay the bills. So we'd prefer you don't sneak a camera into the theater and record it for your friends to watch for free. They can watch it for free -- just not this week. :-)

(And if they wait, they'll get the movie, but not the 40' screen, massive sound system, and deliciously unhealthy popcorn... that's why you want to get an upgrade -- it's got all the cool new content that makes it better!)

Thanks!

-- Bob

 

Posts 40
Kevin Edwards | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 6:38 AM

Also helpful:

http://community.logos.com/forums/p/58026/412986.aspx#412986

Chris Roberts:

Gary Pajkos:
It's just wrong to make your reinvest for all the same resources over again in order to get the new functionality in the latest version.

That's not what's happening. When you "upgrade" to the same package in the new version, the cost is for the new resources in that package. I have Version 4 Platinum. The restructured Platinum for version 5 adds a lot of resources I don't have. The cost covers the new datasets for V5 and all the new resources in the Platinum package (or whatever package I "upgrade" to).

http://community.logos.com/forums/p/58029/412911.aspx#412911

Chris Roberts:

Joe Brown:
It's not clear - how much does Logos 5 cost? I have L4Platinum. Couldn't I just upgrade the software for free?

Others have provided the link to download the Logos 5 engine for free. Be aware, though, that if you do this you will still not be able to take advantage of new features with L5. To use the new features you have to purchase the datasets that go with the engine. When you upgrade to a higher or lower L5 package, you get these datasets (though not all of them come with all packages).

With L4 Logos offered a "crossgrade" which allowed users to purchase just the datasets. They have not yet offered it with L5 but have said it will show up after the initial introductory pricing ends for L5. If you wait until this time (they haven't said how long that is) then you can do the crossgrade and use L5 with your current resources for a lot less money than if you upgrade your current package.

http://community.logos.com/forums/p/58026/413193.aspx#413193

Chris Roberts:

Reasons I've changed my mind on waiting for the crossgrade, going ahead with an upgrade:

 

  1. I appreciate Bob's response, more or less addresses some of my annoyances.
  2. I really want Henry Alford's Greek New Testament and this provides a good excuse and opportunity. Get it, along with lots of other stuff, much of which I don't care for but some of which I do (and the things I do add up to well over the upgrade cost).
  3. So, here's hoping the Logos rep I just emailed gets to work early so this Central Time fellow doesn't have to wait for you left coast people to start your normal business hours to process my Platinum upgrade. :)

 

 

Posts 1129
Keith Larson | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 6:52 AM

Dave Hooton:

fgh:

Do you really need the crossgrade for that? I can't find roots as a separate database on the upgrade chart, so I would expect to get that even with the free upgrade. But maybe I misread the chart, or they've expressed themselves unclearly?

I didn't say you needed CrossGrade for anything! The chart is unclear, though. I'm talking about a search that requires updated bibles, typically the RI's and some Greek/Hebrew bibles to which 'root' words have been added in addition to lemmas.

"Search this resource"  will generate a search for <Root = lbs/el/νους> - > being one of the roots of this compound word.

 

With all the confusion caused by this upgrade I found it interesting that you chose to uses as your example one of the most difficult class of nouns in Greek--Contract Nouns of the 2nd Declension! ὁ νόο + ς = νοῦς. The root really is νοο the ς is just your normal 2nd declension ending. What really gets interesting is the 3rd declension contracts that end in o. ὁ βοο + ς = βοῦς, τοῦ̄ βοο + ος = βοóς!!

Posts 352
Mike & Rachel Aubrey | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 9:16 AM

Keith Larson:
With all the confusion caused by this upgrade I found it interesting that you chose to uses as your example one of the most difficult class of nouns in Greek--Contract Nouns of the 2nd Declension! ὁ νόο + ς = νοῦς. The root really is νοο the ς is just your normal 2nd declension ending. What really gets interesting is the 3rd declension contracts that end in o. ὁ βοο + ς = βοῦς, τοῦ̄ βοο + ος = βοóς!!

The root search isn't taking things to that level of complication. It primarily focuses on breaking compounds into their constituent parts and showing the lemma forms of the base forms, in this case εχω and νους.

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