Make Logos more international orientated!
I read several posts requesting Bible translations in foreign (non-english from your point of view) languages. Which is encouraging me to write this post. Please make Logos more international orientated. It is just a wonderful tool for it.
One little example is time. Over here in Holland we are used to the 24 hours time notation. So 10 PM for me is a bit confusing, I have to look twice to realise that is not 10 in the morning but in the evening..22.00 in our notation.
Is it possible with all that syncing and stuff to pick up the national notations from the computers defaults?
Can we have a dictionary translating from english to dutch, french, german, italian, czech, russian...and so on. I should be possible to incorporate that in Logos! To make it more easy to understand the english books and stuff.
Other example is books. All the books are in english. I think you should expand Logos more internationally and start making books in foreign languages available. At the moment I can search through my dutch bibles. I think this would be possible with books in dutch and almost any language.
What I am missing in my dutch bibles in Logos the possibilty to view the strongs. I do have other dutch computer programs for that. For example Online Bible (with a very old fashioned interface). I know that Bible Works has a dutch bible with strongs. So, it should be possible!
So please: do not make just "forgeign" languages available through bibles but also throug books, dictionaries and commentaries in "foreign" languages. I like to have it all in one place and I do not want to use several programs to put my notes / highlighting and so o.
I think there are more things to make it more international orientated..any more suggestions..?
Luuk
Comments
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Luuk Dondorp said:
Can we have a dictionary translating from english to dutch, french, german, italian, czech, russian...and so on. I should be possible to incorporate that in Logos! To make it more easy to understand the english books and stuff.
Yes, yes, and yes again. Do you realize that Wahrig's Deutsches Wörterbuch is almost as large as LSJ? I also don't have a decent Dutch dictionary or a French one (I can do without that since I have never liked French even when I was taking it). Well, I probably should have Larouse's advanced French-English Dictionary or a French-French dictionary (groan). Do you realize how difficult it is to find Czech resources? You can find more on Arabic than on Czech. With your contacts in Suid Afrika you should be able to get one in Afrikaans. I remember when I was in grad school my mentor wanted someone to read some Dutch books and comment on them. One was in Dutch but the other was in Afrikaans. I quickly determined that it was not like any Dutch I had ever seen but was able to work my way through it. Even the Honnold Library and the library of the School of Theology at Claremont didn't seem to have an Afrikaans dictionary (though I may have overlooked it).
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Luuk Dondorp said:
Can we have a dictionary translating from english to dutch, french, german, italian, czech, russian...and so on. I should be possible to incorporate that in Logos! To make it more easy to understand the english books and stuff.
I currently use online traslators, having offline dictionaries sounds great, but I imagine the market to be limited.
Luuk Dondorp said:Other example is books. All the books are in english. I think you should expand Logos more internationally and start making books in foreign languages available. At the moment I can search through my dutch bibles. I think this would be possible with books in dutch and almost any language.
I agree, however I suggest you contact your dutch/other language publishers and suggest they contact Logos to investigate this option, I am all for it, but again we need to get publishers on board from your own country, with respect to Logos staff, I dont imagine many speak/read dutch german etc..
Luuk Dondorp said:What I am missing in my dutch bibles in Logos the possibilty to view the strongs. I do have other dutch computer programs for that. For example Online Bible (with a very old fashioned interface). I know that Bible Works has a dutch bible with strongs. So, it should be possible!
It is, but someone has to do it, and therefore Logos need money to pay them to do it, sadly even if Logos had 5000 staff I doubt they could keep up with the demands we have for books (new or enhanced/revised)
I dont know if you have seen this http://www.logos.com/sesb and I dont know if they are updates versions (my SVV is 1997) if they are updated versions maybe we now have strongs..
Perhaps someone with SESB could check out the Dutch Bibles, and see if they are encoded with strongs now
German Bibles
- Lutherbibel 1984/1999, with lemmatization
- Lutherbibel 1912
- Zürcher Bibel 2007, with lemmatization
- Gute Nachricht Bibel 1997/2000, with lemmatization
- Einheitsübersetzung with lemmatization
- Elberfelder Bibel with lemmatization
- Die Schrift, verdeutscht von Martin Buber und Franz Rosenzweig
French Bibles
- La Nouvelle Bible Segond
- Traduction Oecumenique de la Bible
- La Bible en français courant. Edition revise
Dutch Bibles
- NBG-vertaling 1951
- Staten Vertaling
- De Nieuwe Bijbelvertaling
- Willibrordvertaling
- Groot Nieuws Bijbel
Norwegian Bibles
- Den Heilage Skrifta. Bibelen, 1978/1985 (Bokmal und Nynorsk)
- Det Nye Testamentet, 2005 (Bokmal und Nynorsk)
Danish Bibles
- Bibelen. Den hellige Skrifts Kanoniske Bøger 1992
- Bibelen (Old Testament 1931, New Testament 1943)
Russian Bibles
- Russian Synodal Version
- Russian Modern New Testament
Bible in Modern Greek
- Today's Greek Version (He Hagia Graph)
Never Deprive Anyone of Hope.. It Might Be ALL They Have
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@ George
Yes, I do realise that. Very well!
First: If I understood you right I do not like the tone of your reaction. How come you connect dutch with afrikaans. Yes, I know they are connected. But I do not know afrikaans...and I am not aware of any contacts in Suid-Afrika. But..perhaps I am mistaken and do not grasp what you want to tell me.
What I was thinking about was some help to understand some specific english words while using Logos. Mirriam-Webster is helpful, but sometimes it isn't enough.
I know that there are digital dictionaries availble on the internet and perhaps Logos can incorporate one or two. Even with afrikaans...if you want to.
Anyway, thanks for your comment.
Luuk
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Luuk Dondorp said:
@ George
Yes, I do realise that. Very well!
I assume this is in regard to my comment on the size of Wahrig.
Luuk Dondorp said:First: If I understood you right I do not like the tone of your reaction. How come you connect dutch with afrikaans. Yes, I know they are connected. But I do not know afrikaans...and I am not aware of any contacts in Suid-Afrika. But..perhaps I am mistaken and do not grasp what you want to tell me.
What I was thinking about was some help to understand some specific english words while using Logos. Mirriam-Webster is helpful, but sometimes it isn't enough.
I know that there are digital dictionaries availble on the internet and perhaps Logos can incorporate one or two. Even with afrikaans...if you want to.
I'm not sure what it is regarding my "tone" that bothers you, but I was simply emphasizing that there are a number of languages for which Logos could provide help (not simply Spanish). The contacts with Suid-Afrika involve Logos, not you. As you well know, Afrikaans is based on a somewhat older form of Dutch with some words borrowed from English and even Portuguese. I too use the digital dictionaries online on occassion; however, it never seems to fail that, when I don't know a word, they don't seem to recognize it either. I was referred to an article in Dutch by a contact I have in Belgium and was doing just fine in reading it until I came across a particular expression. I finally had to contact him for an explanation. I'm sorry if my tone offended you, but I don't know what the problem might have been.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Luuk Dondorp said:
I know that there are digital dictionaries availble on the internet and perhaps Logos can incorporate one or two. Even with afrikaans...if you want to.
Anyway, thanks for your comment.
Luuk, thank you very much for opening (or rather re-opening) of the subject. I have spoken many times here and in the newsgroups about the need of Logos to become more International. They even have it in their statement here on Logos.com. I do not see much development in that matter however. With the Logos 4 it stopped even to support multilingual interface (it works in L3). I hope it will come later. Also PBB support should bring back many non-English Bibles into Logos again. Of course it is a second best. The best would be getting all the non-English translations to be available directly from Logos. I believe it is in the Logos best interest to do that. My reasoning is very simple: with Bibles in our languages Logos will get many customers who will buy eventually many English resources. I have no problem to study and use reference tools in English. Of course it would be great to have them in Czech, German, Dutch, French and so on. It looks too unrealistic as for now IMHO. What we need in the first place is Bibles in all those languages. Pastors and students need to be able to read their Bible in Logos, get the text into their sermon notes etc. All the preparation work can be done in English. I rather use the best resources in English than just one or two resources, probably public domain, in my language. So with simple providing the Bibles in many new languages, Logos get simply to the whole new market. If Logos will not do it, others will [:(]
As far as dictionaries are concerned, I use Collin's English Dictionary 8th ed. (you can find some other too). It is excellent and very informative. If you prioritize it, you see the definitions in the Info panel as you hover over the English word. Eventually we might see some bi-lingual dictionaries, but I can exist without them. My BIG, BIG priority is Czech, Polish, Slovak, Hungarian, Finnish, and all other European languages Bibles of the modern translations in Logos. I have to say frankly, I bought Logos in firm hope we will see these Bibles in Logos soon. If not, it would force me to rethink my excitement about Logos. As I talk to other pastors I always assure them, Logos will have Bibles in those languages soon. I hope I am not mistaken.
Bohuslav
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Bohuslav Wojnar said:
Luuk, thank you very much for opening (or rather re-opening) of the subject. I have spoken many times here and in the newsgroups about the need of Logos to become more International. They even have it in their statement here on Logos.com.
You push for this while I push canon and lectionary. We're makng progress.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Luuk Dondorp said:
I think there are more things to make it more international orientated..any more suggestions..?
Luuk, these are great suggestions and I would applaud that, particularly in the language of my parents. The issue Logos faces is contacts with publishers willing to publish in Logos format. If you know some publishers, or know someone who knows someone in publishing, this would be a great way to get started.
I'm sure that for Logos to be a scholar's dream it would have to include original works in German and French, at least. And for us Reformed types, Dutch is also a necessity to read Berkhouwer, and A. Kuyper, if nothing else. But any PhD Theology student in the U.S. would have to do work in at least German and French, if not Spanish, Italian and perhaps even Dutch (depending on the particular field of study).
Logos has ventured into Spanish, producing works not only translated from English into Spanish, but works originally written in Spanish by Spanish speakers. This market is Logos' own backyard so this makes sense, and so far Logos is making this work. That's promising for other languages as well.
But to come back to my point, for Logos to publish works, it needs permission from publishers. It also needs enough of a consumer base to justify the expense of making such works available. So drum up support in the lowlands and perhaps Logos can venture into Dutch language resources, beyond Bibles.
BTW, I'm with you on 24hr time, vs. am/pm. While it takes some getting used to (for us), it is much clearer. This is why 24hr time is used almost exclusively by hospitals and emergency responders in the U.S. Well, it's almost 16hrs and I have to prepare for a prayer service tonight.
tot siens.
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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Perhaps only a few people know this but Logos software is available in some other languages.
Worth asking them but I expect it depends a great deal on the availability of the right combination of skills, knowledge, time and an available market that is willing and able to pay for the resources...
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Die Bybel VerklaarEnsiklopedië
International Standard Bible Encyclopedia
Wycliffe Bible Encyclopedia
Bybelse EnsiklopedieVerwysingswerke
Verwysingsbybel
Topical Analysis of the BibleAgtergrondstudies
Handboek by die Bybel
Papirus & Parfuum
Vensters wat die Woord laat Oopgaan
The Wycliffe Historical Geography of Bible Lands
Handleiding by die Nuwe Testament II
A Survey of the Old Testament Introduction
Die Wonder van die BybelBybelstudie
The Handbook to Bible Study
Grondtaalhulbronne
Die Grieks Afrikaanse Strong Woordeboek
Grieks met Begrip
Enhanced Strong's Lexicon
Tense Voice MoodKonkordansies
Afrikaanse 1953 Nuwe Testament Konkordansie met Strongs Numering
Afrikaanse 1983 Nuwe Testament Konkordansie met Strongs NumeringAfrikaans
Elektroniese Verklarende Handwoordeboek van die Afrikaanse Taal
Kommentare
Evangelical Commentary on the Bible
The Wycliffe Bible Commentary, New Testament
The Wycliffe Bible Commentary, Old Testament
James, A Study Guide
Johanine Perspectives
Die Evangelie van JohannesTeologie
Denominele Belydenisse
Handbook of Evangelical Theologians
Belydenisskrifte
Bevrydende Waarheid
Jou Enigste Troos
Evangelical Commentary of Biblical Theolgy
Institusie van die Christelike Godsdiens
A Survey of Bible Doctrine
Dogmatiek
Woorde van Lig en Lewe Deel I-IIIEtiek
Die Tien Gebooie
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Hymns and Scripture Selection Guide
Illustrations of Biblical Preaching
Die 7 Skrif- en Skolingsbeginsels van die LeerderBiografie⁄Geskiedenis
A Dictionary of Woman in Church History
Biographical Entries from the 20th Century Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge
Biographical Entries from the Evangelical Dictionary of TheologyDagstuk
Bybelkrag vir Elke Dag
Pedagogiek
Keyword Learning System - Flashcards
Bykans Elke Antwoord vir Feitlik Enige OnderwyserBerading
Quick Scripture Reference for Counseling
Godsdienste
Suid-Afrika - Land van baie Godsdienste
Wetenskap
Christianity and the Enquiring Mind
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Perhaps a quick review of the following page at Logos.com might help .......
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David J. Wilson said:
Perhaps a quick review of the following page at Logos.com might help .......
Thanks for pointing this out David. I'd forgotten that page was there.
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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I agree, we definitely need at least to expand the selection of modern foreign language Bibles available in Logos.
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David J. Wilson said:
Perhaps a quick review of the following page at Logos.com might help .......
That's the web page I pointed at in my post in this thread. I contacted the publishers of modern Czech Bibles and they are willing. I would like to know what I can do more to help the process.
Bohuslav
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George Somsel said:Luuk Dondorp said:
@ George
Yes, I do realise that. Very well!
I assume this is in regard to my comment on the size of Wahrig.
Luuk Dondorp said:First: If I understood you right I do not like the tone of your reaction. How come you connect dutch with afrikaans. Yes, I know they are connected. But I do not know afrikaans...and I am not aware of any contacts in Suid-Afrika. But..perhaps I am mistaken and do not grasp what you want to tell me.
What I was thinking about was some help to understand some specific english words while using Logos. Mirriam-Webster is helpful, but sometimes it isn't enough.
I know that there are digital dictionaries availble on the internet and perhaps Logos can incorporate one or two. Even with afrikaans...if you want to.
I'm not sure what it is regarding my "tone" that bothers you, but I was simply emphasizing that there are a number of languages for which Logos could provide help (not simply Spanish). The contacts with Suid-Afrika involve Logos, not you. As you well know, Afrikaans is based on a somewhat older form of Dutch with some words borrowed from English and even Portuguese. I too use the digital dictionaries online on occassion; however, it never seems to fail that, when I don't know a word, they don't seem to recognize it either. I was referred to an article in Dutch by a contact I have in Belgium and was doing just fine in reading it until I came across a particular expression. I finally had to contact him for an explanation. I'm sorry if my tone offended you, but I don't know what the problem might have been.
@ George
Well, I am happy that I was mistaken. Thought that you were telling me that making Logos more internationally orientated was almost impossible and therefore I was asking for the impossible. So, please forgive me that I wrote that I didn't like the tone. I should have asked first. I will not do it again and I will ask first.
Luuk
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Bohuslav Wojnar said:
Also PBB support should bring back many non-English Bibles into Logos again. Of course it is a second best. The best would be getting all the non-English translations to be available directly from Logos. I believe it is in the Logos best interest to do that. My reasoning is very simple: with Bibles in our languages Logos will get many customers who will buy eventually many English resources.
I agree with you completely. The PBB functionality would be great but isn't the real thing. The more languages available the more new markets = customers = money. But I prefer to say: the more people can use the great possibilities of Logos to study the Bible. Because: with or without Logos, reading and studiying God's word is most important. Especially in these turbulent times. You can live without Logos but not without Gods Word.
Bohuslav Wojnar said:My BIG, BIG priority is Czech, Polish, Slovak, Hungarian, Finnish, and all other European languages Bibles of the modern translations in Logos. I have to say frankly, I bought Logos in firm hope we will see these Bibles in Logos soon. If not, it would force me to rethink my excitement about Logos. As I talk to other pastors I always assure them, Logos will have Bibles in those languages soon. I hope I am not mistaken.
Did you know that the Online Bible Program has several bibles in some of the languages you mentioned. Perhaps you know that already. This is making me wondering why they are not available in the Logos format..I know this is because of the licensing stuff. I think Logos and we should push a little harder to make it available in the Logos format.
Luuk
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DominicM said:
I dont know if you have seen this http://www.logos.com/sesb and I dont know if they are updates versions (my SVV is 1997) if they are updated versions maybe we now have strongs..
Perhaps someone with SESB could check out the Dutch Bibles, and see if they are encoded with strongs now
@ Dominic
Yes, I have seen the SESB. Before I decided to start with Logos 3 I was thinking about to buy the SESB. But doing that way I would pay for some resources and bibles in languages I am not able to read. So, I decided to take a Logos 3 base package instead and build my library from that point. And then I found that there were only two dutch bibles while in the SESB there are five available and at least one (the SVV) with strongs... Why aren't these available - individually - for the Logos library. I know its all about licenses and I have read all the discussions on the former forums (you know: with opera, outlook express and so on). But I will happily pay a little more to have at least one dutch bible with strongs in my Logos library.
Luuk
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Luuk Dondorp said:
The more languages available the more new markets = customers = money. But I prefer to say: the more people can use the great possibilities of Logos to study the Bible. Because: with or without Logos, reading and studiying God's word is most important. Especially in these turbulent times.
Yes, Luuk, you are right. I am a pastor so you are "preaching to the choir" as our American friends would say. My interest is to see all our Czech pastors to have the best possible Bible tools in their hands. Most of them is using the free programs, not knowing all you can have in program as Logos.
But Logos is a business. They have to look for new customers and new markets and so I tried to speak their language in that case [:)] I hope you understand.
Bohuslav
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Bohuslav Wojnar said:Luuk Dondorp said:
The more languages available the more new markets = customers = money. But I prefer to say: the more people can use the great possibilities of Logos to study the Bible. Because: with or without Logos, reading and studiying God's word is most important. Especially in these turbulent times.
Yes, Luuk, you are right. I am a pastor so you are "preaching to the choir" as our American friends would say. My interest is to see all our Czech pastors to have the best possible Bible tools in their hands. Most of them is using the free programs, not knowing all you can have in program as Logos.
But Logos is a business. They have to look for new customers and new markets and so I tried to speak their language in that case
I hope you understand.Dear Bohuslav,
Yes, I understand. In fact I was correcting myself. I know it is working that way but I hope they will follow rather their commitment than business.
Luuk
Luuk
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;)
