Greek Verb Principle Parts - Word Study

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This post has 26 Replies | 2 Followers

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Stephen Rogers | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Feb 14 2013 9:13 AM

I am surprised that I'm not given the principle parts of verbs when I hover over them (and especially surprised that this info doesn't come up when I do a word study).  Am I missing something?  This would seem to be invaluable info for anyone trying to read NT in Greek.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 14 2013 5:43 PM

Welcome Stephen

I'm not a language expert, but Logos has:-

  • Grammar resources for the student
  • Word/Vocabulary Lists  that can be constructed (& printed) from a Morph Search eg. @V???1S  (all first person singular verbs)
  • Analytical lexicons that can be accessed from a Word Study (in the Lemma section)

Also, there are wiki articles on the features of Logos.

Please ask if you want to know more

 

Dave
===

Windows 10 & Android 8

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 14 2013 6:15 PM

Stephen Rogers:

I am surprised that I'm not given the principle parts of verbs when I hover over them (and especially surprised that this info doesn't come up when I do a word study).  Am I missing something?  This would seem to be invaluable info for anyone trying to read NT in Greek.

You're probably looking for something simple and straightforward without any clutter, but I would suggest a good Greek-English or Hebrew-English lexicon.  By that I mean BDAG for Greek and HALOT for Hebrew.  Don't accept substitutes (because there really aren't any).  These do give the principle parts.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 14 2013 10:53 PM

Stephen Rogers:

I am surprised that I'm not given the principle parts of verbs when I hover over them (and especially surprised that this info doesn't come up when I do a word study).  Am I missing something?  This would seem to be invaluable info for anyone trying to read NT in Greek.

Welcome Smile

Using Logos 5.0b noticed mouse hover on Χαίρετε has a pop-up along bottom of panel with parsing information:

For visual filter highlighting, wiki has => http://wiki.logos.com/Extended_Tips_for_Highlighting_and_Visual_Filters#Examples_of_visual_filters

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 3
Stephen Rogers | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 21 2013 6:32 AM

Thanks, this is just what I was looking for.  So, without a lexicon like this, there is no way in LOGOS to get the principle parts of a verb?

Also (assuming you have and use these), is there a way to set it up so that when I hover over a word, the info of that word shows up at the bottom?  My scripture professor had that capability with his software (Bibleworks) and that was one of the main things I was hoping to have with LOGOS.  It just makes it really easy to no have to open up a separate window (i.e. a more extensive word study) to see basic info of a single word.

 

Posts 1
| Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 21 2013 6:51 AM

What would be cool is when you right click a Greek or Hebrew word you get the option for a complete paradigm of that word. The format could be something like the Greek/Hebrew Paradigms card logos sells http://www.logos.com/product/6338/greek-and-hebrew-paradigm-charts. What would make it all the more useful is to color code it like the Zondervan "Get an A!" study guides.

This would take a lot of time to enter the data for every Greek and Hebrew word, but once the database was created Logos could do all kinds of cool stuff with it, such as a quiz/review App to help both learn and review the languages. I am sure there could be other applications I am not thinking about.

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fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 21 2013 8:53 AM

Stephen Rogers:
is there a way to set it up so that when I hover over a word, the info of that word shows up at the bottom?

You mean like KS4J showed in the screenshot just above your post? If you don't already get that, what base package do you have, if any? Which Greek Bible are you using?

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

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David Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 21 2013 9:01 AM

I don't know what resources you have in your Logos library or what platform you use (here is what I have in Windows)

By opening the INFORMATION window (available under TOOLS) I have my settings set to "click" so that any word I click on in the upper pane yields the information I see in the right panel.

I have the REVERSE INTERLINEAR information set to show up as a panel (rather than inline)

By hovering over any word in the Greek text I automatically get the popup in the bottom of my screen.

So Logos automatically gives me the parsing in 3 places.

Making Disciples!  Logos Ecosystem = Logos8 on Microsoft Surface Pro 4 (Win10), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone, [deprecated] Windows App, Proclaim, Faithlife.com, FaithlifeTV via Connect subscription.

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Keith Larson | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 21 2013 10:25 AM

He is wanting more than just the parsing, but the principle parts of each verb.

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David Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 21 2013 11:11 AM

Stephen Rogers:
Thanks, this is just what I was looking for.

I'm sorry. When I saw this quote following KS4J's post I thought the pop-up parsing is what was being sought. I now see the the poster was referring to George Somsel's statement about BDAG containing the parts of a verb - although BDAG only dissects the lemma form.

Making Disciples!  Logos Ecosystem = Logos8 on Microsoft Surface Pro 4 (Win10), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone, [deprecated] Windows App, Proclaim, Faithlife.com, FaithlifeTV via Connect subscription.

Posts 3
Stephen Rogers | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 21 2013 11:41 AM

So Keith and David, is there a way to get the principle parts without purchasing a $150 lexicon?  I'm not arguing that the lexicon wouldn't be a good investment, but I'm not able to get it just yet.

Thanks for your posting!

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David Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 21 2013 1:35 PM

This resource, included in Bronze and higher, may provide what you desire http://www.logos.com/product/4580/lexham-analytical-lexicon-to-the-greek-new-testament It appears it is only $30 unless you have academic pricing.

Here is a sample of the format

Making Disciples!  Logos Ecosystem = Logos8 on Microsoft Surface Pro 4 (Win10), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone, [deprecated] Windows App, Proclaim, Faithlife.com, FaithlifeTV via Connect subscription.

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 21 2013 2:22 PM

David Thomas:
This resource, included in Bronze and higher, may provide what you desire http://www.logos.com/product/4580/lexham-analytical-lexicon-to-the-greek-new-testament It appears it is only $30 unless you have academic pricing.

I just looked and I don't think it gives the principle parts. 

I need a hamburger, Dave Thomas.  Wink

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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David Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 21 2013 2:53 PM

It doesn't break down principle parts, but does show forms that are attested in the Bible.

Sorry, no hamburger for you! Even I can't get a discount at Wendy's when I show my Drivers License and prove I really AM Dave Thomas.

Making Disciples!  Logos Ecosystem = Logos8 on Microsoft Surface Pro 4 (Win10), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone, [deprecated] Windows App, Proclaim, Faithlife.com, FaithlifeTV via Connect subscription.

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 22 2013 3:40 AM

David Thomas:
Even I can't get a discount at Wendy's when I show my Drivers License and prove I really AM Dave Thomas.

Perhaps you should contact your sister. She seems to have some influence Geeked

As far as the original subject of this thread goes, there is really no substitute for actually learning the language. Logos already has too many crutches which make the user believe he has learned something when in fact he has not. Too make preachers—who think they know the language—give out false information based on faulty training.

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Keith Larson | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 22 2013 4:12 AM

Stephen Rogers:

So Keith and David, is there a way to get the principle parts without purchasing a $150 lexicon?  I'm not arguing that the lexicon wouldn't be a good investment, but I'm not able to get it just yet.

Thanks for your posting!

The best way as has been suggested is to learn the rules which cover the vast majority of Greek verbs and then learn by memory the irregular forms. "Learn to Read New Testament Greek" has a short list, but Mounce's grammar has a much better list and will explain the rules to you! If you want help memorizing these forms download Anki (a free flash card program) and you will find a user created card deck of all the words in the 3rd edition of Mounce's text. In the deck is a sub group of cards for memorizing these irregular forms. BTW they are not really "irregular" but are often different words used for different tenses or follow such a complicated set of rules that it is easier just to memorize them.

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 22 2013 8:05 AM

Jack Caviness:
As far as the original subject of this thread goes, there is really no substitute for actually learning the language. Logos already has too many crutches which make the user believe he has learned something when in fact he has not. Too make preachers—who think they know the language—give out false information based on faulty training.

Jack, you're singing my song.  Smile

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 1130
Keith Larson | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 22 2013 9:07 AM

Stephen,

If you have an iOS device there is a neat little program called FlashGreek which sells for only $9.99. Not only does it review Vocab down to 20 word frequency, but it has a principle parts quiz feature! http://www.ntgreekresources.com/flashgreek.php

The same author has another App for only $3.99 called iGreek which has tables of all the principle parts.

Finally if you really want to get a workout parsing Greek words he has a program called ParseGreek.

This is way less than $150!

Blessing on learning the language. As Jack and George are suggesting there is so much you gain by actually learning a language that cannot be reproduced by a computer program!

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 23 2013 9:37 PM

David Thomas:

This resource, included in Bronze and higher, may provide what you desire http://www.logos.com/product/4580/lexham-analytical-lexicon-to-the-greek-new-testament

Looking at the verb χαίρω noticed forms are in alphabetical order, which is different than paradigm grouping.

Searching a grammar collection for principal NEAR parts find many resources, including:

Greek New Testament Insert => http://www.logos.com/product/198/greek-new-testament-insert includes a list of verbal principal parts.  Also noticed this resource is included in a number of base packages, including Original Languages.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 732
Bootjack | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 24 2013 8:44 AM

I understand that BDag & Halot are ok if one knows the languages - otherwise, one pays nearly 300.00 dollars for something one does not understand, other than a few English words here and there.

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