Community Pricing titles that need re-anchoring

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Jeffrey King | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 29 2013 7:48 PM

I must not understand how the community pricing is supposed to work.  I wonder if it is not a good name for it.   How long does an item stay in community pricing?  I put in a bid for the Hodge Collection last year and it is still in community pricing.

If this is test marketing, then lets call it what it is.  If it is community pricing then price it base on the community bids and let us buy it.  Can anyone shed more light on how this is supposed to work?

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 29 2013 8:00 PM

Jeffrey King:

I must not understand how the community pricing is supposed to work.  I wonder if it is not a good name for it.   How long does an item stay in community pricing?  I put in a bid for the Hodge Collection last year and it is still in community pricing.

If this is test marketing, then lets call it what it is.  If it is community pricing then price it base on the community bids and let us buy it.  Can anyone shed more light on how this is supposed to work?

Welcome to the forums Jeffrey! Thanks for taking time to post. Here is a video that explains how Community Pricing Works. http://www.logos.com/communitypricing/about

Basically Logos users place bids and when the cost of production is reached the resource then goes into production. This is a win-win arrangement for Logos and Logos users. Logos doesn't risk investing in a resource that may not even cover costs and Logos users get great deals for being the first to invest in resources. I hope that helps and that you continue to place as many bids as you are able. When you do we all win.

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David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 29 2013 9:23 PM

Jeffrey King:

If this is test marketing, then lets call it what it is.  If it is community pricing then price it base on the community bids and let us buy it.

Yeah! That's right! I think Logos should pay me to take all those books off their hands! For about $20K, I'll carry off everything they have...but only one copy of each, please...I can only carry so much in one trip.

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Evan Boardman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 30 2013 7:17 AM

Bob Pritchett:

Many are killer deals even at three times the price! They just won't make it at the current numbers.

Princeton Theological Review (443 issues)

I would like to see Princeton Review in Logo's, but I don't think its gonna make it by Community Pricing.Sad

Posts 226
Michael A. Lasley | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 30 2013 8:01 AM

I think it would give us a better feel on what to bid if we had at least one other piece of information like the number of bidders or the actual cost of production. Logos keeps this secret for some reason - I'm not sure why.

Another issue is that Logos may be saturating its market, trying to grow too fast in so many different areas. Over the last year the total volume in Community Pricing has almost doubled. I bid on every community pricing item because it is the most cost effective way to build a big library. Not too long ago my total backlog of orders in CP was $2000 to $2500. Today it is $4500 to $5000. I will soon be changing my strategy and dropping out because I cannot keep up.

The situation in prepub is the same. The volume of products has more than doubled. I certainly do not buy all of these, but on even those I want, I will be deciding to cut back.

Having all these choices is good, but there is danger in growing too fast to keep the quality in the resources that we need. Many resources are coming out with many, many errors, I worry that if Logos grows too fast and fails, our libraries will be worthless and our entire investment lost.

I did increase my bids on all of the items Bob mentioned, but I don't expect this to help. Logos will need to promote these better and perhaps reset the bidding at a higher level. There could be some sort of criteria on when an item should be canceled and replaced with a higher matrix when the bidding stalls at too low a level. Logos knows what the size of the bidding population is and they should be able to set the range such that even at the lowest bid there are enough in the population to push it to completion. Logos does control the size of the lowest bid. So it's basically their problem.

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 30 2013 8:11 AM

Michael Lasley:
I think it would give us a better feel on what to bid if we had at least one other piece of information like the number of bidders or the actual cost of production. Logos keeps this secret for some reason - I'm not sure why.

Michael, you make some great points but I especially like this one. I have been saying this for a while too and wish that they would share more information. I'm not sure why they don't do this.

You also make some great points about how many resources are in CP and Prepubs compared to what it was like a few years ago. It is hard to keep track of everything and the costs can rise significantly without fully realizing it. 

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

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Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 30 2013 10:39 AM

Well, I would guess that competitors would benefit from Logos giving out such information:

Bruce Dunning:
Michael Lasley:
Michael, you make some great points but I especially like this one. I have been saying this for a while too and wish that they would share more information. I'm not sure why they don't do this:
I think it would give us a better feel on what to bid if we had at least one other piece of information like the number of bidders or the actual cost of production. Logos keeps this secret for some reason - I'm not sure why.

 


I've always bid high on English Bible collection (27 vols.).

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Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 30 2013 4:31 PM

Michael Lasley:
I think it would give us a better feel on what to bid if we had at least one other piece of information like the number of bidders or the actual cost of production. Logos keeps this secret for some reason - I'm not sure why.

The main reason is to avoid getting caught up in silly arguments. Our costs are what they are, and we're always trying to reduce them (and those reductions show up as lower production costs on new CP titles -- and sometimes on ones already listed). But not everyone understands our business, or has enough contextual data to build an accurate opinion about what a high or low cost is. 

Experience has taught us that if we say "It will cost $10,000 to produce this book," one person will think that's amazingly cheap and another will think it's insanely expensive. And a third person will question our character, Christian faith, and call us names. :-)

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 30 2013 4:46 PM

Bob Pritchett:

Michael Lasley:
I think it would give us a better feel on what to bid if we had at least one other piece of information like the number of bidders or the actual cost of production. Logos keeps this secret for some reason - I'm not sure why.

The main reason is to avoid getting caught up in silly arguments. Our costs are what they are, and we're always trying to reduce them (and those reductions show up as lower production costs on new CP titles -- and sometimes on ones already listed). But not everyone understands our business, or has enough contextual data to build an accurate opinion about what a high or low cost is. 

Experience has taught us that if we say "It will cost $10,000 to produce this book," one person will think that's amazingly cheap and another will think it's insanely expensive. And a third person will question our character, Christian faith, and call us names. :-)

What you are saying makes total sense to me for the average person has no context for the actual production costs. But this was not the information that I was hoping to see. What I think would help is a more detailed scale of % of production cost as items near the final 10% and how many more people it would take to bring the price down to the next marker. I think this could gain more enthusiasm for people to sign on at the last minute. I can't tell you how many times I've tried to look at the current scale and "guess" where it actually was at. I think that showing the last 10% would help.

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

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Deacon Steve | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 30 2013 5:10 PM

Bob Pritchett:

Experience has taught us that if we say "It will cost $10,000 to produce this book," one person will think that's amazingly cheap and another will think it's insanely expensive. And a third person will question our character, Christian faith, and call us names. :-)

 

Amen!!! 

Just get us in the ballpark, Bob.  That's all we are asking.  We all appreciate the work you and everyone at Logos are doing...truly appreciate it.  Smile 

All of us out here want to take advantage of every offering to the extent our individual circumstances will allow.  Please allow us the opportunity to help you and your team to get these Community Price works over the top.  However you think is best.  That's all.

When a Community Price item goes "stale" or worse, gets removed, we all lose.

You have our vote, Bob.  God bless you and Happy Easter!!

Blessings,

Steve

Posts 247
BriM | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 31 2013 10:52 AM

Bob Pritchett:
Well, we'll leave them here for a while, but if they're clearly never going to make it we will take them down. In some cases we might put the book on pre-pub, at a higher price than the leading CP bid, resetting expectations and hopefully getting more revenue from fewer people that way, to cover costs.

Bob, rather than putting on Pre-pub, why not experiment with taking one of them off CP for a day, then reinstating it as a new CP item with no bids on it. This would allow a clean slate and possibly a more appropriate price to form. Once items have established this much of a peak, I'd say it's really unlikely you'll see a movement as things stand. We get people begging for revised bids very frequently on the forums and it hardly ever changes anything. I know there are odd exceptions. You could email those who had bid to let them know what was happening, akin to the bid has/has not succeeded email.

Personally, I don't mind these items taking a few years to get into production. I'm not desperate for them but happy to buy them at CP prices. I wouldn't buy at Pre-pub prices.

In the longer term, you might want to consider whether it's possible to change CP slightly. The first few bidders seem to set the price - sometimes too high, sometimes too low because most people bid the going rate. I wonder whether hiding the peak for the first week would help people bid what they think rather than what the peak says.

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Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 31 2013 12:14 PM

A tremendous idea, BriM! Surprise:

BriM:
In the longer term, you might want to consider whether it's possible to change CP slightly. The first few bidders seem to set the price - sometimes too high, sometimes too low because most people bid the going rate. I wonder whether hiding the peak for the first week would help people bid what they think rather than what the peak says.

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 31 2013 5:12 PM

Unix:

A tremendous idea, BriM! Surprise:

BriM:
In the longer term, you might want to consider whether it's possible to change CP slightly. The first few bidders seem to set the price - sometimes too high, sometimes too low because most people bid the going rate. I wonder whether hiding the peak for the first week would help people bid what they think rather than what the peak says.

I concur!

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 31 2013 6:37 PM

BriM:
In the longer term, you might want to consider whether it's possible to change CP slightly. The first few bidders seem to set the price - sometimes too high, sometimes too low because most people bid the going rate. I wonder whether hiding the peak for the first week would help people bid what they think rather than what the peak says.

An alternative idea is Logos using historical information to open community pricing with ## bids placed for an initial projected price, which is likely to succeed.  The amount needed to cover 100 % of projected cost could include the initial ## bids by Logos.  Hence, 100 % of projected resource cost would be covered by community bidding.  Anticipate number of ## initial bids being different depending on resource.

Keep Smiling Smile

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David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 5 2014 6:34 AM

BUMP 

Bob Pritchett:

All of the following titles are already in the top 50 most bid-on Community Pricing titles. And, based on sales history, none of them are likely to make it at the current leading bid. (...)

Many are killer deals even at three times the price! They just won't make it at the current numbers. (...)

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fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 5 2014 8:27 AM

At least one of them actually has made it.

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David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 5 2014 11:39 AM

from the last item on page one: 

Dave Hooton:

Alternatively, when a certain percentage of cost is achieved or after a certain time, Logos could state the bid that existing bidders would have to make in order to succeed.

Yes, Bob said that we needed to triple our bids [I doubled mine] but a line stating that if you want it now bid this many $$$ might wake us up.

Early Bible Translations Collection is closing soon but maybe the other Bible set should be broken up as I [for one] only want two Bibles in the collection. Yes, many Bibles are selling for $10 but others are $40 or so.  

[[Yes, Lewis and Short's Latin Dictionary has been published - I did not check all of them]] 

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