Word Biblical Commentary

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This post has 53 Replies | 1 Follower

Posts 74
Monroe R Miller | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Aug 26 2013 12:41 PM

I have three volumes of WBC on pre-order. One for two years, the others a little over a year. I have called a couple of times to ask what's going on. Never got an answer. So here's the deal, when I leave today, in about an hour, if I don't have a full explanation about why the hold up and an estimate of when these volumes will be available, I will cancel all of my pre-ordeers.

Rich+

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 26 2013 1:02 PM

Monroe,

Most of us can relate to your frustration. However, when it comes to ultimatums, this might not be the best place to get a prompt reply. You might get one, but you might not. You can email Dan Pritchett at Logos: Dan@logos.com and ask for some input.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 80
Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 26 2013 1:08 PM

Logos is losing its focus.  Rather than doing one thing well, it has become very scattered.  Word Commentaries Series is more important than Sophocles for most Logos users.

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 26 2013 1:16 PM

Agree Paul, but not Sophocles  ... we're getting soooo close!

http://www.logos.com/product/8513/e-a-sophocles-collection 

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 74
Monroe R Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 26 2013 1:24 PM

I have already called about this twice. I have tens of thousands of dollars invested with Logos. They have just lost a very good customer.

Rich+

Posts 1674
Paul N | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 26 2013 2:04 PM

C'mon Monroe! When you mentioned you've called previously are you saying you literally did not receive an answer or was it like no one picked up? When I make ultimatums with my children I give them favorable terms which is probably really a bribe in disguise. I guess my point is you have to give Logos at least a little time to respond! Also unwinding all of those pre-pubs/cp orders has to be a bear!

Posts 74
Monroe R Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 26 2013 2:37 PM

The answer I got, both times, was "they are under contract." My response was, "i know that. They have been 'under contract' for years. These are not toys, they are professional tools and I need to know when I can expect them." The response, like a broken record (you younger guys can get your grandparents to explain "broken record. ") was "they are under contract."

Rich+

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 26 2013 2:51 PM

Monroe R Miller:
The response, like a broken record (you younger guys can get your grandparents to explain "broken record. ") was "they are under contract."

Let me give you an educated guess, which won't be the same "broken record" response...

Logos has a finite number of man-hours to accomplish all the various projects they need to accomplish. If I were to own the company, I would put my man-hours on the projects with the greatest ROI. That may or may not always be the ones with the biggest "profit margins." I have no inside information on these projects, but I would guess that one or more of the following may be true:

  1. The resources aren't as "in demand" as some others, and are on the "slow track."
  2. The resources are more "labor intensive"
  3. The resources have thinner "profit margins"
  4. The resources are more prone to mistakes and must be checked and rechecked to meet quality standards

I can understand your frustration… I don't understand your response. One thing I would suggest to Logos… It might be better to hold off on announcing that resources are "under contract" if the project will take an extended amount of time. 

macOS, iOS & iPadOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 508
Greg | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 26 2013 2:51 PM

Monroe,

I'm willing to bet its a publisher issue and not a Logos one. It doesn't take Logos 1-2 years to type and tag such simple resources. Logos would have no good financial reason to take so long to put out such a popular resource either.

Delays like this are usually publisher related. You may want to speak to the publisher about this delay, as Logos may not be allowed to divulge the reason.

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 26 2013 2:53 PM

Well, the CEO's reply is that if they had to monitor all their in-development books, they'd not have time to develop them. But I'd think they have internal tracking. Computer guys? 

I suppose unloading orders is more efficient. I've periodically cleared my orders for oldies. Including the WBC series. I've got a Hermeneia that probably I'll end up clearing but give it some time.

I also unload with repetitive missed ship dates. 

Performance matters.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 74
Monroe R Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 26 2013 3:07 PM

I have cancelled my orders. I will have to limp through the last two years of my active, parish ministry with just the resources I already have. Even Logos should be concerned when something has been under contract for two years and find out why.

Rich+

Posts 138
LogosEmployee
Clifford Kvidahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 26 2013 3:17 PM

Monroe,

Thanks for the comment. From what I know, Steve Walton has been working on these two volumes for of Acts quite some time now. They are both not available currently. There is a tentative date for Acts 1-14 as later this year. If memory serves me correctly, there have been a number of supposed publication dates for these two volumes—I personally remember seeing a 2008 publication date for vol. 1 a few years back.

This is more an issue with Word than with Logos. I, like you, are waiting eagerly for Walton's work.

Commentaries are a tricky business, with many, many delays. For example, the NIGTC on 1-3 John, which is being written as we speak by D. A. Carson, was originally supposed to be published at least a decade ago.

When you get the chance, look at the author forwards in some of the major commentaries. You will not be surprised to see some give an indication of just how long it took for them to get their manuscript to the press.

One last nugget. The great Pauline scholar E. Earle Ellis was scheduled to write the ICC for 1 Cor. He was at work on that for years, and at the time of his untimely death he made it only as far as 1 Cor 7.

I am sorry that this is taking longer than usual. I think I may email Walton and see if he has finished his manuscript.

Cliff

Posts 74
Monroe R Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 26 2013 3:33 PM

I don't care anymore. I have cancelled my orders. Logos is habitually uncommunicative about delays. I have dealt with this before. As long as Bob and his brother maintain their arrogant attitudes there will be trouble. But not for me, I'm outta here. Logos has just over 31,000 of my hard earned dollars. They will get no more.

Rich+

Posts 138
LogosEmployee
Clifford Kvidahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 26 2013 3:46 PM

Monroe,

Would it be possible to communicate via email? I would love to help you in anyway I can.

cliff [dot] kvidahl [at] logos [dot] com

Cliff

Posts 74
Monroe R Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 26 2013 4:04 PM

It is possible and I will send you my email but I do not need help. The time for that is way past.

Rich+

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 26 2013 4:28 PM

Monroe, I understand your frustration but I don't understand your response. What do you hope to gain by your reaction?

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

Posts 74
Monroe R Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 26 2013 4:52 PM

Bruce, I have the WBC and other very good commentaries in Accordance. I also have an extensive Logos library that I will still use. I have had a very unhappy relationship with Logos for years. I see them as arrogant, not at all customer centered and bordering on dishonest. Example: they have apparently offered these WBC volumes while the volumes don't even exist. They list them as "under contract" which used to mean that the ebook was being prepared, even though the volumes still exist only in the authors' immaginations. I simply have chosen to walk away from the headaches and frustration of dealing with a company that holds its customers in such low regard. If you need an explanation for that, check about 3 or 4 posts above where the CEO is quoted as saying that if Logos tracked all their books in development, they wouldn't have time to develop the books. Arrogant and cavalier! By not shopping here, I won't have to deal with that anymore.

Rich+

Posts 1034
Mike Pettit | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 26 2013 4:54 PM

I do not think that he is thinking of gaining anything, he has just had enough of being treated badly by Logos.

Logos is a massive company and they expect us to believe that tracking production status is so difficult that they can never do it?

Posts 74
Monroe R Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 26 2013 4:55 PM

Bruce - i responded to your post. Apparently, something in my response caused it to be censored. Suffice to say that I am getting rid of the heaches of dealing with Logos. I consider that great gain.

Rich+

Posts 5318
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 26 2013 5:04 PM

Monroe R Miller:

I don't care anymore. I have cancelled my orders. Logos is habitually uncommunicative about delays. I have dealt with this before. As long as Bob and his brother maintain their arrogant attitudes there will be trouble. But not for me, I'm outta here. Logos has just over 31,000 of my hard earned dollars. They will get no more.

All Logos can do is pull them, Logos is not at fault for the lack of items to produce, if Nelson tells Logos these volumes are coming and start pre selling them, it is not Logos fault when the volumes are not forth doing from Nelson. Also once the volumes are released for publication it is still up them to release the text for Logos to work with. Bob and Dan do not seem arrogant to me really, and indeed when I have emailed Bob in the past have always got pleasant and usually informative replies.. Indeed the last time I was even given some info that was more or less in-house only info. I have spent no where nearly as much as you have. I am sad you feel the need to leave logos, i could complain about several things with Logos but all in all I do not think arrogance is a problem on their part (now i will occasionally say there is stuff in advertising that seems less than fair or 100% accurate ) but this is not the fault of anyone but the marketing department and the last time i made a complaint I will admit it was a bit of an over reaction on my part (I can be pretty nit picky when i have a bad migraine).

-Dan

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