German Base Packages - Resource Suggestions

L.A.

Since LOGOS offers English and Spanish Base Packages...

(1) What resources would you suggest for possible German Base Packages?

Bibles
Dictionaries
Commentaries
Church History
Lectionaries
Counselling
etc.

(2) Which type of Base Packages would you prefer? ... thematic Base Packages (Theology, Biblical Languages, Counselling, etc.) or incremental Base Packages (as the english ones <-- the bigger and more expensive packages contain the resources of the smaller packages).

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Comments

Raphael

Bibles (Elberfelder; Luther; Neues Leben; Schlachter; Zürcher)
Dictionaries (Theologisches Begrifslexikon zum neuen Testament ISBN 978-3417263015; Das grosse Bibellexikon ISBN 978-3417263008)
Commentaries (Edition C, NT Komentar ISBN 978-3775146401)
Church History (2000 Jahre Kirchengeschichte ISBN 978-3417264715
Lectionaries
Counselling

MJ. Smith

While I don't read German, I'm glad to see a well organized effort to German resources to form erthe basis of a German package. Best of luck to you.

Rosie Perera

I don't read German either, but I would assume some of the books we English speakers get in translation from the original German would be good to have in some of the German base packages: authors such as Luther, Bonhoeffer, Hengstenberg, Barth, von Balthasar, Lange, Walter Bauer, F.C. Baur, Gunkel, Moltmann, Pannenberg, Ursinus, Hans-Gebhard Bethge, Goethe, Ratzinger, Schleiermacher, Spener, David Friedrich Strauss, Martin Hengel, Udo Schnelle, Claus Westermann, etc. (Logos search for "translated from German" or "translated from the German" and other such phrases; I believe Verlag means "publisher" in German, so I used that in some searches as well, to find books where the original publisher was listed as a German publishing company.)

George Somsel

Good luck on this. While most of us will continue to read the English translations of original German works (it's faster for us), it would be good to be able to purchase the original editions—I could stand to brush up my German a bit.

Raphael

for me is this so in english but isn't good for me then so i learn english

Oliver Lutz

Hi,

all the ressouces of SESB 3.0

Interlinear Bible (greek/german; hebrew/german)

Commentaries: Wuppertaler Studienbibel, Neues Testament Deutsch (NTD), Botschaft des Alten Testamentes (ATD),

Lectionaries: RGG, TRE (as a option)

Theologischs Wörterbuch zum NT (ThWbNT)

Ethics: Helmut Burkhardt - Ethik

NB.Mick

Erm....... TRE and RGG as well as any Bibellexikon are dictionaries, not lectionaries.

Just saying.

L.A.

TRE and RGG as well as any Bibellexikon are dictionaries, not lectionaries

Thanks, NB.Mick, for the correction!!

Lectionaries could be for example:

(1) Die Herrnhuter Losungen (Herrnhut Daily Watchword),

maybe (2) fortlaufende Bibellese des (continuos Reading-plan of) ÖAB,

but particularly (3) Agenden der EKD/VELKD etc. o. kath. Kirchen (fortlaufende gottesdienstliche Lesungen und Predigttexte sowie Abläufe zur Amtshandlungen) <--- ush! that's tough to translate[*-)]

L.A.

Hi,

Welcome to the forum!

all the ressouces of SESB 3.0

Two, from the original SESB 3 slightly down-/upgraded Bundles are the German Society Bundle and the German Society Bundle: Student Edition. "Downgraded" means that because of copyright issues some of the German Bibles within the SESB are presently not allowed to publish.

Besides this - if I am right / not really sure - should exist a German translation to the Apostolic Fathers - also presently not available. However, you can find another almost fully tagged PersonalBookBuilder-version in the forum's files (Apostolische Väter, Didache, BKV etc.). ...Luther's Macnificat, ... Irenäus' Gegen die Häresien, ... Please feel free to compile and publish PersonalBooks (PublicDomain please ;-)

Rosie Perera

Good luck on this. While most of us will continue to read the English translations of original German works (it's faster for us), it would be good to be able to purchase the original editions—I could stand to brush up my German a bit.

I think the point of this would be for German native speakers, now that there's a German version of the software, not the "most of us" you're referring to.

L.A.

Thank you very much, MJ, Rosie and George for your support and Ideas! Your suggestions are very helpful!

Luther, Bonhoeffer, Hengstenberg, Barth, von Balthasar, Lange, Walter Bauer, F.C. Baur, Gunkel, Moltmann, Pannenberg, Ursinus, Hans-Gebhard Bethge, Goethe, Ratzinger, Schleiermacher, Spener, David Friedrich Strauss, Martin Hengel, Udo Schnelle, Claus Westermann, etc

Keil-Delitzsch OT Commentary...

Another traditional NT-Commentary: Theodor von Zahn

Keil-Delitzsch and Zahn in German are available as scanned PDF and OCR-docx on www.sermon-online.de

Alan Palmer (Logos)

Maybe you guys know someone suitable for this position? https://www.logos.com/jobs/German-Marketing-Specialist

Raphael

you have right thanks

Rosie Perera

Maybe you guys know someone suitable for this position? https://www.logos.com/jobs/German-Marketing-Specialist

I have emailed a German friend of mine to see if he might be interested. He has a seminary degree (Regent College), is a native German speaker, fluent in English, has worked in the past in a Christian bookstore in Germany, as a youth pastor running Christian camps, and has worked for the past 8-10 years for a company that does mapping software. He'd be ideal. But unfortunately he lives in Germany now, with his wife, and both have good jobs, and I doubt they'd want to move to Bellingham. The pay is probably not very enticing if this is an accurate indicator. And I'm not certain he's got marketing experience. But it's worth a shot. Any chance Logos would be open to someone like that working from abroad and coming to Bellingham every couple of months for a few days?

NB.Mick

He has a seminary degree (Regent College), is a native German speaker, fluent in English, has worked in the past in a Christian bookstore in Germany, as a youth pastor running Christian camps, and has worked for the past 8-10 years for a company that does mapping software. He'd be ideal. And But unfortunately he lives in Germany now

I just edited a bit (underline/strikethrough) in your post - I definitely think that in oder to a) source publishing rights and more importantly b) sell Logo to the German market, a physical presence is nearly absolutely neccessary. It somehow may work otherwise, but I'm in doubt. Someone needs to tour the campuses of seminaries, be with a booth at major events where potential customers gather etc. While advertising on large websites such as Jesus.de might be of value, I think there's a bit more to be done which includes face-time with customers, multipliers etc.

Rosie Perera

He has a seminary degree (Regent College), is a native German speaker, fluent in English, has worked in the past in a Christian bookstore in Germany, as a youth pastor running Christian camps, and has worked for the past 8-10 years for a company that does mapping software. He'd be ideal. And But unfortunately he lives in Germany now

I just edited a bit (underline/strikethrough) in your post - I definitely think that in oder to a) source publishing rights and more importantly b) sell Logo to the German market, a physical presence is nearly absolutely neccessary. It somehow may work otherwise, but I'm in doubt. Someone needs to tour the campuses of seminaries, be with a booth at major events where potential customers gather etc. While advertising on large websites such as Jesus.de might be of value, I think there's a bit more to be done which includes face-time with customers, multipliers etc.

Good point. I agree with you. I was just responding to the job description which said it is based in Bellingham. I do think that would be a mistake.

L.A.

Maybe you guys know someone suitable for this position? https://www.logos.com/jobs/German-Marketing-Specialist

Thanks, Alan! Blessed year 2014!

I posted it on facebook and got an answer. But... he don't want to do the job from the US... However, I encouraged him to get in contact with jobs@logos.com.

ilian

Bibles: BasisBibel, Neue Luther Übersetzung, Neue Genfer Übersetzung, Elberfelder 2006
Commetaries: Evangelisch-Katholischer Kommentar (EKK); Stern, David H., Kommentar zum Jüdischen Neuen Testament; Zürcher Bibelkommentare - AT und NT; Internationaler Exegetischer Kommentar zum Alten Testament IEKAT; Wuppertaler Studienbibel AT und NT; Herders Theologischer Kommentar zum AT und NT; Das Alte Testament Deutsch (ATD); Das Neue Testament Deutsch (NTD); CV Kommentar zum Neuen Testament (Was die Bibel lehrt), ...
Dictionaries: Wilhelm Gesenius' hebräisches und aramäisches Handwörterbuch über das Alte Testament; Bauer/Aland: Wörterbuch zum Neuen Testament

HansK

Works by Klaus Berger:

Kommentar zum NT

Theologiegeschichte des Urchristentums

Bibelkunde 2

etc etc

Bob Pritchett

Rosie, I think we're interested in talking to anyone who would be good for the position. It's easier for us to train and coordinate with people on site, but we're willing to discuss hiring / contracting-with someone remote.

toughski

Rosie, I think we're interested in talking to anyone who would be good for the position. It's easier for us to train and coordinate with people on site, but we're willing to discuss hiring / contracting-with someone remote.

is this a reply to a different post?

Alan Palmer (Logos)

Maybe you guys know someone suitable for this position? https://www.logos.com/jobs/German-Marketing-Specialist

Thanks, Alan! Blessed year 2014!

I posted it on facebook and got an answer. But... he don't want to do the job from the US... However, I encouraged him to get in contact with jobs@logos.com.

While I am not directly involved in the hiring process for this position, I would encourage people interested to contact Logos and get in touch with the people who are (just like you told your friend). In the real world, there are very few non-negotiable requirements when it comes to filling positions at any private company I've ever worked for (besides obvious legal ones). Government jobs? Well that's another story. [;)]

Moritz Brockhaus

Bibles: Interlinear German Bibles (Luther 1984 and Elberfelder, maybe). Additionally: BasisBibel, Neue Genfer Übersetzung, Menge Bibel

Dictionaries: Bauer-Aland, Wörterbuch zum NT (the German BDAG); KAHAL (the new German HALOT). Theological Dictionaries as well (e.g. Jenni/Westermann)

Commentaries: Herders Theologischer Kommentar zum AT (HThK.AT); Herders Theologischer Kommentar zum NT (HThK.NT); Historisch-Theologische Auslegung (HTA)

L.A.

(1) What resources would you suggest for possible German Base Packages?

Thanks to all for your contribution!!! I'm preparing an Excel doc with all suggestions. It'll be online in the next days. But please continue to contribute suggestions for more resources or put an * to the resources you most like... ...the more *** the higher the priority.

Nobody left her/his opinion about the second - quite considerable - question - I think:

2) Which type of Base Packages would you prefer? ... thematic Base Packages (Theology, Biblical Languages, Counselling, etc.) or incremental Base Packages (as the english ones <-- the bigger and more expensive packages contain the resources of the smaller packages).

Thanks again! Have a blessed year 2014!

Thanks again also to Bob Pritchet!! ...and Alan!

Denis Grams

Dictionaries:

Bauer-Aland ***

Gesenius ***

they are so important....

and some german translations, like the Elberfelder *** or Neü **

thanks a lot ;-)

Moritz Brockhaus

Resp. 2nd question:

Thematic Base Packages would be more convenient for me, I think. I mostly use original language tools and Commentaries.

Andreas Münch

Bibles: Elberfelder 2006, Schlachter 2000, Neue Genfer Übersetzung, Neue Luther Bibel

Dictionaries: Theologisches Begriffslexikon zum Neuen Testament (Author: Lothar Coenen), Wörterbuch zum Neuen Testament (Walter Bauer)

Commentaries: Keil und Delitzsch Kommentar zum Alten Testament, Wuppertaler Studienbibel AT - NT, Historisch Theologische Auslegung NT

Church History: 2000 Jahre Kirchengeschichte (Armin Sierszyn)

Andreas Münch

Another great Tool for German Logos User would be "Neuer sprachlicher Schlüssel zum griechischen Neuen Testament: Mattäus - Offenbarung" from Wilfried Haubeck and Heinrich von Siebenthal

Schumitinu

Even though we have made some good suggestions, it looks to me like we haven’t done the best answering the questions Logos brought to us. Maybe we should answer the second question first and then be able to make more educated suggestions as to what recourses to be included. I’d like to propose the following:

I feel like incremental base packages better meet the need of our German speaking community. For example if I look for a Bible program I look for a mixture of Bible versions, commentaries, lexicons and a few other helpful resources. And I think this is what the English base packages offer. I’d propose three levels: a basic version (Grundversion), a study version (Studienversion), and a scholar version (Akademische Version). This should cover a wide range of interests. I therefore make my suggestions of recourses for all three levels. But I do so in another entry. Otherwise this one gets too big. So this gives you the option to further discuss my proposal by replying to this entry. Or if you like the way I’ve divided it up you can comment, modify or add to the list of resources I suggest below. Hopefully this brings us a step further in helping Logos putting together a great Bible study tool for our German speaking community.

I have one more suggestion to make before I post my list of resources. What I called a few other helpful resources above would fit under what we in German categorize as Theology (Theologie). This would include different disciplines like doctrine, hermeneutics, OT and NT introductions, church history, textual critics, extra biblical literature, and the list could go on. Again I feel that this would meet a felt need of the German speaking world, like myself.

Schumitinu

So here are my lists of resources divided up into three incremental versions. That means the upper versions include the resources of the lower versions. Instead of just looking at what resources we personally would like to have included, look at the whole package and determine whether or not you would purchase it. Because that is what it is all about, we eventually have to buy the whole package.

Grundversion

Bibel (Bible):

Luther 84
Elberfelder 2006
Schlachter 2000
Gute Nachricht
Neues Leben
Neue evangelistische Übertragung

Kommentare (Commentary):

William MacDonald AT und NT
Langes Bibelwerk
Warren Wiersbe, Sei-Reihe AT und NT
Kommentar zur Bibel, R. Brockhaus Verlag
Edition C Bibelkommentar AT und NT

Nachschlagwerke (Lexicon):

Lexikon zur Bibel, Fritz Rienecken
Ungers großes Bibel Handbuch
Elberfelder Themenkonkordanz
Der große Atlas zur Welt der Bibel, Brunnen Verlag
Namen und Orte der Bibel, Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft

Theologie (Theology):

Was die Bibel lehrt, Charles Ryrie
Schritte durch die Bibel, Gibbs

Gottesdienst (Lectionaries):

Herrnhuter Losungen
???

Studienversion

Bibel:

Menge
Elberfelder 2003 (CSV Edition)
Einheitsübersetzung
Zürcher Bibel
Neue Genfer Übersetzung
NA 27 (text with morph tagging)
BHS (text with morph tagging)
Septuaginta Deutsch

Kommentare:

Keil & Delizsch AT und NT Kommentare
Theodor Zahn Kommentarreihe NT
Wuppertaler Studienbibel
Kommentar zum Umfeld des neuen Testamentes, Craig S. Keener

Nachschlagwerke:

Biblisches Wörterbuch, R. Brockhaus
Kleines Wörterbuch zum Neuen Testament: Griechisch-Deutsch, Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft
Wörterbuch zum Alten Testament: Hebräisch/Aramäisch-Deutsch und Hebräisch/Aramäisch-Englisch, Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft
Biblische Bilder und Symbole, Arend Remmers
Die Vielfalt biblischer Sprache, Schirrmacher

Theologie:

Bibel Chronik, 5 Bände, Vanheiden
Ethik, 3 Bände, Burkhardt
2000 Jahre Kirchengeschichte, Sierszyn

Gottesdienst:

Evangelisches Kirchengesangbuch
Gotteslob
???

Akademische Version

Bibel:

Janzen NT
Zunz AT
Septuaginta (SESB) mit textkritischem Apparat
Biblia Sacra Vulgata (SESB) mit textkritischem Apparat
BHQ

Kommentare:

Historisch-Theologische Auslegungsreihe des Neuen Testaments
Meyers Kritisch-exegetischer Kommentar über das Neue Testament
Herders Theologischer Kommentar zum AT und NT
Kommentar zum Neuen Testament aus Talmud und Midrasch, Hermann L. Strack / Paul Billerbeck

Nachschlagwerke:

Wörterbuch zum Neuen Testament, Bauer/Aland
Theologisches Wörterbuch zum Neuen Testament, Kittel
Hebräisches und Aramäisches Handwörterbuch, Gesenius
Hebräischen und Aramäischen Lexikons zum Alten Testament (HALAT), Koehler & Baumgartner (many commentaries would quote the HALAT and not the newer KAHAL. This might work better for linking the words in the commentary directly to the lexicon)
(Konzise und aktualisierte Ausgabe des Hebräischen und Aramäischen Lexikons zum Alten Testament (KAHAL), Dietrich & Arnet)

Theologie:

BHS Apparatus Criticus
NA28 Textkritischer Apparat
Neuer Sprachlicher Schlüssel zum NT, Haubeck & von Siebenthal
Griechische Grammatik, von Siebenthal
Hebräische Grammatik, Gesenius
Einleitung in das neue Testament, Carson & Moo
Altes Testament, Egelkraut

Gottesdienst:

NB.Mick

Schumitinu,

your packages are a nice starting point. I'd probably consider buying, but there's much overlap to SESB (idea: special pricing for SESB-owners!) and a number of the resources you suggested are translations of well-known English language works. The appeal to former non-users of Logos may be larger than for those who own a large library already.

Currently they look very "evangelical" to me, which may be okay but restricts the potential buyer's population and may impact the reputation of Logos on the (massively liberal) university level, since - as far as I have been told and read - evangelical literature is often not considered as citeable. Logos might want to exchange some things to make the packages appealing to more liberal/mainstream people and to the RC community- in this case the Einheitsübersetzung should be in Grundversion.

The German edition of Schnelle's book and other entry-level university textbooks should be put into the study version. And one would need to have some more additional works for students of Greek and Hebrew in the study and academic packages, such as Stoy/Haag/Haubeck "Bibelgriechisch leichtgemacht" (Brunnenverlag) etc.

I personally would like to see the bibles "Hoffnung für Alle" (Brunnenverlag) and "Basisbibel" (DBG) in the Grundversion, and maybe "Das Buch" (SCM, authored by head of German YMCA and former missionary Roland Werner) as well. Schlachter 2000 is a TR-based, formal-equivalent bible which may be used only in certain smaller groups, I'd propose to move it to the second package level and then have it as the German edition of John MacArthur study bible (sold by fundamentalist publisher CSV as such).

Logos could include the (PD) commentaries by Adolf Schlatter: the ten-volume, lay-accessile ones in the study edition and the academic ones one level above. And probably some of the all-time classics in commentaries for the academic package, like Barth's Romans and Bultmann's John.

So far my ideas,

Mick

L.A.

So here are my lists of resources divided up into three incremental versions.

GREAT! Thats really great! Thanks!!

I tried to make a full list with all suggestions, but didn't have enough time (finally it was too nurdy for me [|-)] - preferred to work on nurdy personal books).

This is how I like the incremental system. Maybe we do not need a lot of commentary works in Base Packages. The higher quality english commentaries aren't in base packages either.

What I fear, when I think on the incremental system is, that the really pro-versions could get just too expensive for the German market. Sometimes, when I have a look on the english pro-ones I feel bad and sad. So I thank God that I own the SESB 3 (similar to the German Bible Society Bundle). But in my worst moments I wish luck & blessings to the rich & beautiful.

So would prefer a combined Bundle-System like the other Bible-Software companies. So I don't have to buy resources I do not want and which hinder me to buy the stuff I need.

L.A.

(1) What resources would you suggest for possible German Base Packages?

Bibles / Dictionaries / Commentaries / Church History / Lectionaries / Counselling

etc.

(2) Which type of Base Packages would you prefer? ... thematic Base Packages (Theology, Biblical Languages, Counselling, etc.) or incremental Base Packages (as the english ones <-- the bigger and more expensive packages contain the resources of the smaller packages).

After the "fruitful" discussion above.... ...maybe we should add the following questions:

(3) What would/should be the price-range of/for German Base Packages (B.P.)?

(4) How important are theological/hermeneutical presuppositions and denominational/confessional arguments for a german B.P.? For example:

(a) Would there be the need of German Verbum Base Packages too?

(b) What would be the real difference for Base Packages between possible "conservative" and "liberal" Logos users?

Schumitinu

After the "fruitful" discussion above.... ...maybe we should add the following questions:

(3) What would/should be the price-range of/for German Base Packages (B.P.)?

This is a tricky question. My impression is that the German speaking community is not willing to invest a lot for a Bible program. So I give it a try but I don't know whether this is realistic or not :

Grundversion 120 - 150 Euro

Studienversion 299 Euro

Akademische Version 599 Euro