Hey ... what happened to the Baptist Covenant Theology collection

Page 2 of 4 (70 items) < Previous 1 2 3 4 Next >
This post has 69 Replies | 6 Followers

Posts 1805
Tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 18 2014 7:10 AM

Edwin Sully PAYET:

Robert Harner:
Now $19 - I hope Logos can move some smaller numbers in!

I guess we may have to dream about it only...

It is now at 18!

BUT remember last week they changed it (as requested)  and then canceled the whole thing!  Angry

Maybe the costs go up when they change the web page? Wink

www.hombrereformado.org  Solo a Dios la Gloria   Apoyo

Posts 1805
Tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 18 2014 7:57 AM

Tom Rach:
Robert Harner:
Now $19 - I hope Logos can move some smaller numbers in!

Bump: Logos are you reading?

www.hombrereformado.org  Solo a Dios la Gloria   Apoyo

Posts 446
Jonathan Sine | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 18 2014 10:45 AM

Weird. Lower numbers have moved in. But the graph line goes way down.

Jonathan Sine

Pastor - Squamish Baptist Church

2 Cor. 4.6

Posts 737
Evan Boardman | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 18 2014 10:48 AM

It's under again. Logos needs to look into this. If this doesn't pass for the second week...... You fill in the blank.

Posts 5622
Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 18 2014 10:54 AM

Logos: what is going on?  Does someone keep moving the goal posts? How can it be at 70% today when it was at 105% yesterday?

https://www.logos.com/product/40846/baptist-covenant-theology-collection

Does Lucy Van Pelt work at Logos, taking away the football when it's about to be kicked?  Big Smile

Wiki Links: Enabling Logging / Detailed Search Help - MacBook Pro (2014), ThinkPad E570

Posts 205
Stephen Paynter | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 18 2014 10:56 AM

It is under AGAIN!

Okay, I can understand that on a second look Logos might have revised its estimate of how much this collection will take to make ... but to have to do it twice is hard to believe. It seems more like some kind of glitch. Logos ... what is going on?? A public statement would be nice.

It is really messing with this collection, as people are not being given a sensible range to bid over, perhaps jeopardising the collection, as some people would have bid higher (or lower) if only given a chance.

Posts 1805
Tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 18 2014 11:17 AM

Stephen Edward Paynter:
Okay, I can understand that on a second look Logos might have revised its estimate of how much this collection will take to make ... but to have to do it twice is hard to believe. It seems more like some kind of glitch. Logos ... what is going on?? A public statement would be nice.

Yes   Logos, will you please respond and FIX this problem!  

www.hombrereformado.org  Solo a Dios la Gloria   Apoyo

Posts 1805
Tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 18 2014 11:38 AM

Todd Phillips:
Does Lucy Van Pelt work at Logos, taking away the football when it's about to be kicked?  Big Smile

Big Smile Roll Eyes

www.hombrereformado.org  Solo a Dios la Gloria   Apoyo

Posts 670
Stephen Steele | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 18 2014 12:15 PM

Can't believe it's happened again!

Posts 205
LogosEmployee
Kent Hendricks | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 18 2014 12:51 PM

I’m sorry about the confusion in the past couple weeks about the Baptist Covenant Theology Collection.

There are two key factors that have contributed to the fluctuating costs and pricing of this collection:

  1. Many collections have swings in the cost estimate during the first few weeks they’re on Community Pricing. We start with a rough number to get the product posted, and then quickly get a “real” number. Typically, this is at the stage where products have less than 25% covered, so the swings aren’t very visible or noticeable—if they’re present at all. We’ve gotten fairly good at getting our initial estimates close to the real number, but this collection was an obvious exception.
  2. This collection has received far more interest than we anticipated, so by the time we began refining our numbers, the product was already over 100%. It turned out that both times, this collection had a far higher estimate than we anticipated.

As of this morning, the number on the product page is real. This product will not cross into Pre-Pub this Friday. The product page will be updated soon to reflect that.

Posts 1938
Robert M. Warren | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 18 2014 6:25 PM

Dear Logos:

You're killing me.

Windows 10 (L9 Beta) | Android 9 (phone - L9 Beta) | Fire OS 7 (tablet - L9 Stable)

Posts 3073
Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 18 2014 6:33 PM

Kent Hendricks:
As of this morning, the number on the product page is real.

I'm usually one of the first to jump on Logos-haters and defend the company, but this fiasco has been a real downer.  Hard to defend when a product drops to $18 and says it is going to close only to have the price nearly double.

Angry

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

Posts 5416
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 18 2014 6:49 PM

Doc B:

Kent Hendricks:
As of this morning, the number on the product page is real.

I'm usually one of the first to jump on Logos-haters and defend the company, but this fiasco has been a real downer.  Hard to defend when a product drops to $18 and says it is going to close only to have the price nearly double.

Angry

Who says this is going to close at $30?? That "price" isn't actually real until some idget or two decide to bid hard into that price because that is the green "recommended bid". But just look at the chart, people. $20 is STILL almost as close is $30 is to the top, and if people simply bid that price INSTEAD OF $30, then it will close at $20 or even lower...just not quite as soon as we expected. "Hard to defend?" I thought Kent's explanation made perfect sense. Facts are facts, whether or not they please or are appeasing. Logos thought it was going to be one thing, but it turned out to be something else. So? Granted, it is surprising and a bit shocking to think its almost about to come out of the oven only to find its still raw on the inside, but kvetching won't cook it any faster.

ASROCK x570 Creator, AMD R9 3950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, Asus Strix RTX 2080 ti, 2tb m.2 Seagate Firecuda SSD (x2) ...and other mechano-digital happiness.

"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not."

Posts 1281
toughski | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 18 2014 7:09 PM

Kent Hendricks:

I’m sorry about the confusion in the past couple weeks about the Baptist Covenant Theology Collection.

There are two key factors that have contributed to the fluctuating costs and pricing of this collection:

  1. Many collections have swings in the cost estimate during the first few weeks they’re on Community Pricing. We start with a rough number to get the product posted, and then quickly get a “real” number. Typically, this is at the stage where products have less than 25% covered, so the swings aren’t very visible or noticeable—if they’re present at all. We’ve gotten fairly good at getting our initial estimates close to the real number, but this collection was an obvious exception.
  2. This collection has received far more interest than we anticipated, so by the time we began refining our numbers, the product was already over 100%. It turned out that both times, this collection had a far higher estimate than we anticipated.

As of this morning, the number on the product page is real. This product will not cross into Pre-Pub this Friday. The product page will be updated soon to reflect that.

Kent and Logos, how can you mis-estimate this collection that contains only 17 resources with a median page count of only 83 BY THIS MUCH!!!?

when any business, be it a car mechanic or a door installer quotes a final price that is nearly TWICE the initial "fairly good" estimate, it normally loses my business

Posts 1805
Tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 18 2014 7:29 PM

David Paul:
Facts are facts, whether or not they please or are appeasing.

I am looking at it another way:

1. If the bids were in and the price dropped to 17 dollars, as it did a few days ago, why does Logos not suck up to its mistake, be happy that that many people WERE interested in the collection, and then let us have it for that price?  

2. Why should we suffer because Logos screwed up on its projected price? Angry  You have the whole life of the company to recover the cost!

3. Yes it really brings tears to my eyes that people bid faster then logos expected.  Crying

4. Logos should have honored  the CP the FIRST time it went over the line (not to mention the SECOND time).  

5. This form now has screen shots of each mistake (broken promises) that Logos made with this CP product. Embarrassed

6. Logos you made the rules and now it seems like when it is not in its favor, you change the height of the goal posts.

7. This must be the NEW LOGOS because it is not the OLD LOGOS I have know for over 10 years!

8. Face it, you really created bad will due to your marketing mistake!  Find a CS person to fix it! 

9. Judging from the way it has been done in the past you (logos) usually make up the money by charging a higher Per-Pub price and high FINAL Price to the late adopters, why did you not do it with this one, swallow your pride, and save all of this confusion and ill will?

Maybe it is time for Bob to jump in with his fire extinguisher  and restore some good will in regards to this product!

www.hombrereformado.org  Solo a Dios la Gloria   Apoyo

Posts 1805
Tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 18 2014 7:37 PM

toughski:
Kent and Logos, how can you mis-estimate this collection that contains only 17 resources with a median page count of only 83 BY THIS MUCH!!!?

They made a mistake!    Surprise    I can live with that. Sad

But they are morally responsible to honor there implied contacts! Surprise

They blow it!

I suspect (Like Logos) knows every person that bid on the first round and second round and they could honor those WINNING Bids if they wanted to.

www.hombrereformado.org  Solo a Dios la Gloria   Apoyo

Posts 5416
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 18 2014 7:57 PM

toughski:

Kent Hendricks:

I’m sorry about the confusion in the past couple weeks about the Baptist Covenant Theology Collection.

There are two key factors that have contributed to the fluctuating costs and pricing of this collection:

  1. Many collections have swings in the cost estimate during the first few weeks they’re on Community Pricing. We start with a rough number to get the product posted, and then quickly get a “real” number. Typically, this is at the stage where products have less than 25% covered, so the swings aren’t very visible or noticeable—if they’re present at all. We’ve gotten fairly good at getting our initial estimates close to the real number, but this collection was an obvious exception.
  2. This collection has received far more interest than we anticipated, so by the time we began refining our numbers, the product was already over 100%. It turned out that both times, this collection had a far higher estimate than we anticipated.

As of this morning, the number on the product page is real. This product will not cross into Pre-Pub this Friday. The product page will be updated soon to reflect that.

Kent and Logos, how can you mis-estimate this collection that contains only 17 resources with a median page count of only 83 BY THIS MUCH!!!?

when any business, be it a car mechanic or a door installer quotes a final price that is nearly TWICE the initial "fairly good" estimate, it normally loses my business

Obviously, the mind-bending intricacies of CP are still confusing people. This isn't even remotely close to being a 100% increase ("twice as much") over the price it was at earlier. In fact, it really isn't an increase in COST TO YOU (you, the bidder) in any way whatsoever. The only real change to us is that It's just not about to process as soon as we expected, that's all. Big deal. But let's look at what's actually happening. The line of bids was riding the 100% mark...now it's down to about 65% or so. That's a shift of about 1/3 to 1/2 from where it was before, as a quick eyeball of the chart indicates. That might sound like a HUGE shift, but if the cost for this project isn't very high to start with, a fairly small dollar change in costs creates a big percentage change.

The main thing that happened here is that expectations got tweaked, and people seem to really hate that, regardless of what the actual impact of the tweak is. I rather strongly suggest that folks lay off the indignation, especially over something is inconsequential as the $5-$10 worst case scenario that's "in play" for this CP. The reality is that EVERYONE is destined to have their expectations tweaked much harder when prophecy starts to play out in the next few years. The projection is that "love will grow cold", when what is really called for is just a simple readjustment of expectations to what was actually true all along. The shock will be massive, but the negative psychological effect will seem objectionable more for the shift of expectation and need for readjustment rather than for the "cost" of the necessary shift. People have either not counted the true cost or miscalculated what the cost truly is. Prophecy says that the reaction will be indignation rather than simple and rather innocuous readjustment. The true "cost" will be paid by those whose indignation and pride prevents accepting the requirements of the "new" (but was always true) expectation.

ASROCK x570 Creator, AMD R9 3950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, Asus Strix RTX 2080 ti, 2tb m.2 Seagate Firecuda SSD (x2) ...and other mechano-digital happiness.

"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not."

Posts 5416
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 18 2014 8:05 PM

Tom Rach:

David Paul:
Facts are facts, whether or not they please or are appeasing.

I am looking at it another way:

1. If the bids were in and the price dropped to 17 dollars, as it did a few days ago, why does Logos not suck up to its mistake, be happy that that many people WERE interested in the collection, and then let us have it for that price?  

2. Why should we suffer because Logos screwed up on its projected price? Angry  You have the whole life of the company to recover the cost!

3. Yes it really brings tears to my eyes that people bid faster then logos expected.  Crying

4. Logos should have honored  the CP the FIRST time it went over the line (not to mention the SECOND time).  

5. This form now has screen shots of each mistake (broken promises) that Logos made with this CP product. Embarrassed

6. Logos you made the rules and now it seems like when it is not in its favor, you change the height of the goal posts.

7. This must be the NEW LOGOS because it is not the OLD LOGOS I have know for over 10 years!

8. Face it, you really created bad will due to your marketing mistake!  Find a CS person to fix it! 

9. Judging from the way it has been done in the past you (logos) usually make up the money by charging a higher Per-Pub price and high FINAL Price to the late adopters, why did you not do it with this one, swallow your pride, and save all of this confusion and ill will?

Maybe it is time for Bob to jump in with his fire extinguisher  and restore some good will in regards to this product!

The arrogance in this post is astonishing.

1) ANSWER: Why should they? They have no reason to. They owe you NOTHING.

2) ANSWER: Suffer???? Are you utterly mad??!?? In what way have you suffered ANYTHING whatsoever????? You have some shockingly difficult times ahead, and if this is suffering on your watch, you won't survive the first 10 minutes to come.

After those two doozies, my need to even bother with further response is beyond necessary and could be considered piling on.

Wow.

ASROCK x570 Creator, AMD R9 3950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, Asus Strix RTX 2080 ti, 2tb m.2 Seagate Firecuda SSD (x2) ...and other mechano-digital happiness.

"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not."

Posts 4138
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 18 2014 8:12 PM

Tom Rach:

David Paul:
Facts are facts, whether or not they please or are appeasing.

I am looking at it another way:

1. If the bids were in and the price dropped to 17 dollars, as it did a few days ago, why does Logos not suck up to its mistake, be happy that that many people WERE interested in the collection, and then let us have it for that price?  

2. Why should we suffer because Logos screwed up on its projected price? Angry  You have the whole life of the company to recover the cost!

3. Yes it really brings tears to my eyes that people bid faster then logos expected.  Crying

4. Logos should have honored  the CP the FIRST time it went over the line (not to mention the SECOND time).  

5. This form now has screen shots of each mistake (broken promises) that Logos made with this CP product. Embarrassed

6. Logos you made the rules and now it seems like when it is not in its favor, you change the height of the goal posts.

7. This must be the NEW LOGOS because it is not the OLD LOGOS I have know for over 10 years!

8. Face it, you really created bad will due to your marketing mistake!  Find a CS person to fix it! 

9. Judging from the way it has been done in the past you (logos) usually make up the money by charging a higher Per-Pub price and high FINAL Price to the late adopters, why did you not do it with this one, swallow your pride, and save all of this confusion and ill will?

Maybe it is time for Bob to jump in with his fire extinguisher  and restore some good will in regards to this product!



To me, it being postponed is not a big deal. Logos has erred in my favor on a few occasions - incl with free resources on one or two occasions (an upgrade to a commentary set valued at 70$ and another time with the Exegetical summaries they made a mistake and honored it for me, which cost them ~25$), and told me to keep them... I'm not going to quibble over a resource taking an extra week or three. Bob and Dan are good guys, and have good hearts. When something needs to be made right, they do. However, personally, I'm not sure this is one of those times.


L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, L9

Posts 5416
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 18 2014 8:14 PM

Tom Rach:

toughski:
Kent and Logos, how can you mis-estimate this collection that contains only 17 resources with a median page count of only 83 BY THIS MUCH!!!?

They made a mistake!    Surprise    I can live with that. Sad

But they are morally responsible to honor there implied contacts! Surprise

NO, they aren't. Because this isn't a contract until both sides seal the deal.

Tom Rach:

They blow it!

Are you still wet behind the ears, or do you just have Alzheimer's? Bob made good on a company mistake to the tune of tens of thousand of dollars a few months back. In my opinion, that was a huge error on his part...he actually, imo, encouraged future shady behavior on the part of customers. But such behavior has now been condoned as Logos's standard operating procedure. In other words, his attempt to "do the right thing" in customers eyes actually may have been very much the wrong thing.

Regardless, your charge that Logos "blows it" is petulant and shamelessly self-serving. The old saw, "customers are always right" is a LIE. They are often arrogant, spoiled brats. Case in point...

ASROCK x570 Creator, AMD R9 3950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, Asus Strix RTX 2080 ti, 2tb m.2 Seagate Firecuda SSD (x2) ...and other mechano-digital happiness.

"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not."

Page 2 of 4 (70 items) < Previous 1 2 3 4 Next > | RSS