Mark Driscoll Sermon Archive is gone!

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Posts 476
elnwood | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Mar 31 2014 9:46 PM

I read this blog post that said that some of Driscoll's sermons were being taken offline.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/warrenthrockmorton/2014/03/24/mark-driscolls-sermons-keep-disappearing/

Then I checked Logos, and the Mark Driscoll Sermon Archive is gone!

https://www.logos.com/product/4925/mark-driscoll-sermon-archive

Posts 476
elnwood | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 31 2014 10:11 PM

Ah, thanks for the link.

I searched for the most recent posts about Driscoll, and nothing came up.

http://community.logos.com/search/SearchResults.aspx?q=driscoll&o=DateDescending

Maybe the Logos Forums are like my Logos Library, it takes a long, long time to index! Stick out tongue

Posts 18644
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 31 2014 10:14 PM

elnwood:

I searched for the most recent posts about Driscoll, and nothing came up.

http://community.logos.com/search/SearchResults.aspx?q=driscoll&o=DateDescending

Maybe the Logos Forums are like my Logos Library, it takes a long, long time to index! Stick out tongue

The forum search is useless. Use Google, and put site:community.logos.com in your search criteria. Much more flexible and reliable than the forum search function. Here's how I Googled that thread, and it was the first hit:

"mark driscoll" site:community.logos.com

Posts 2
Robert Baker | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 29 2014 11:03 AM

I bought his sermon Archive in October but never read any of the sermons until 2 weeks ago.  I was very upset at the lack of quality and harsh, language.  I was surprised Logos even allowed his material in the library and asked for a refund.  I then started to google on Mars Hill and found out about the controversies and issues.  I then discovered Logos pulled his sermons---interesting.

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 29 2014 11:07 AM

Robert Baker:
I then started to google on Mars Hill and found out about the controversies and issues.  I then discovered Logos pulled his sermons---interesting.

I am guessing that plagiarism was the main issue.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 29 2014 12:39 PM

Welcome to the forums.

Robert Baker:
I then discovered Logos pulled his sermons---interesting.

I believe this action was requested by Mars Hill/Driscoll,

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 10039
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 29 2014 12:58 PM

I ponder the day (for a few seconds) when congregation members can have their iPads scan their pastor's sermon on the fly, for any plagiarism.  Uncredited commentaries.  Lexicon definitions not properly cited.  Jokes repeated too often.  Speech phrasings that don't sound like their pastor.

Of course the biggest may well be the quoting of the Bible without attribution (and proper payment of copyright fees of course).

People need to realize that Matthew quoting Mark without crediting him was unadulterated plagiarism (or visa versa).  Of course Mark might have plagiarized proto-Mark, in which case Matthew would not need to credit Mark.  Granted since none of the gospels have credited authors, citing the respective sources correctly would have been a challenge.

And as you're growning for yet one more bad example of humor, I'll be fondly remembering those little copyright numbers that we sing by accident during worship.  Pay for play.


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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 29 2014 1:41 PM

Super.Tramp:
I am guessing that plagiarism was the main issue.

When I go to a new church one of the first things I tell them is "that plagiarism is my middle name"

I would plagiarise Plagar himself if he could put the message over in better words than me!!

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 29 2014 2:34 PM

Plagiarism by Driscoll does not bother me. It was his original words of choice that did not impress me. But Logos was aware of his controversial nature before they published his sermons. They used it as a sales pitch.

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DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 29 2014 5:51 PM

Denise:

I ponder the day (for a few seconds) when congregation members can have their iPads scan their pastor's sermon on the fly, for any plagiarism.  Uncredited commentaries.  Lexicon definitions not properly cited.  Jokes repeated too often.  Speech phrasings that don't sound like their pastor.

Of course the biggest may well be the quoting of the Bible without attribution (and proper payment of copyright fees of course).

People need to realize that Matthew quoting Mark without crediting him was unadulterated plagiarism (or visa versa).  Of course Mark might have plagiarized proto-Mark, in which case Matthew would not need to credit Mark.  Granted since none of the gospels have credited authors, citing the respective sources correctly would have been a challenge.

And as you're growning for yet one more bad example of humor, I'll be fondly remembering those little copyright numbers that we sing by accident during worship.  Pay for play.

I think the Bible offers a better explanation on the Matthew-Mark and "Proto-Mark" scholar's technical mumbo-jumbo...How about the Holy Spirit inspired these men to write what they wrote, regardless of similarities (2 Peter 1:20-21; cf. 2 Timothy 3:16-17).  I think the similarities are no sign of plagiarism, but of inspiration and all the information coming from the same divine source.  We let scholars fill our minds with too much technical jargon ("proto-Mark;" Q, etc.) that we fail to see the original source of all Scriptures - God.  Since we all share God's Word in one way or another, we are in a sense plagiarizing.  I think this whole plagiarizing issue - especially when it comes to sermons and stuff, is mostly about business and not about really caring who stole what line from who.  Just my two cents.  Like the other post suggested, if someone else's words help me get across the message better, then why not use them for the sake of saving a soul?

DAL

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abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 29 2014 6:24 PM

DAL:

I think the Bible offers a better explanation on the Matthew-Mark and "Proto-Mark" scholar's technical mumbo-jumbo...How about the Holy Spirit inspired these men to write what they wrote, regardless of similarities (2 Peter 1:20-21; cf. 2 Timothy 3:16-17).  I think the similarities are no sign of plagiarism, but of inspiration and all the information coming from the same divine source.  We let scholars fill our minds with too much technical jargon ("proto-Mark;" Q, etc.) that we fail to see the original source of all Scriptures - God.  Since we all share God's Word in one way or another, we are in a sense plagiarizing.  I think this whole plagiarizing issue - especially when it comes to sermons and stuff, is mostly about business and not about really caring who stole what line from who.  Just my two cents.  Like the other post suggested, if someone else's words help me get across the message better, then why not use them for the sake of saving a soul?

DAL

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Alain Maashe | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 29 2014 7:50 PM

DAL:

 if someone else's words help me get across the message better, then why not use them for the sake of saving a soul?

DAL

The issue od plagiarism is not about the ability to use someone's work but about proper attribution once the work is used. It becomes a matter of integrity when entire paragraphs or whole sermons are borrowed and passed as one's own in front of the congregation that is none the wiser.

Behind this kind of egregious behavior there is often spiritual and intellectual laziness mixed with a desire to make oneself appear more intelligent or learned than in reality. This kind of intentional plagiarism is not a trivial matter but an ugly sin.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 29 2014 8:17 PM

Yes Alan

Alain Maashe:
Behind this kind of egregious behavior there is often spiritual and intellectual laziness

This is also often what is behind name calling, mockery and abusive language. However, here it makes oneself appear ignorant and unable to learn. A proper disagreement should matter enough that one can speak cogently.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 29 2014 8:39 PM

DAL, I agree about the business part (or 'wealth management' as they say here in Sedona).

I'm fully confident when Jesus spoke about compensating the oxen, that as a minimum, an ox should not take intellectual credit for another ox's wheat treading.  So often an ox will claim he tread on some of the wheat that another ox actually tread on. It's just so sickening to see lazy oxen acting this way.  I don't think maybe an ugly ox could sin, so probably it's just not right.

I used 'ox' in my example, using my exegetical connecting-the-dots techniques, because Jesus liked ox so much.  Plus I didn't want to accidentally plagiarize, confident no one would mis-identify the source of ox compensation rules.


Posts 1244
HJ. van der Wal | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 30 2014 1:06 AM

Robert Baker:

I was very upset at the lack of quality

I've never read any of Driscoll's sermons, but I did pick up his book Doctrine: What Christians Should Believe as a freebie (vyrso). I started reading the book, but I never got past chapter one:

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Paul-C | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 30 2014 1:49 AM

Deleted because I can't read properly! Tongue Tied

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 30 2014 3:52 AM

Paul-C:

That's going to throw up some issues for the Timeline! Smile

Pardon my ignorance. What is the issue?

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Posts 1875
Paul-C | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 30 2014 4:21 AM

alabama24:

Paul-C:

That's going to throw up some issues for the Timeline! Smile

Pardon my ignorance. What is the issue?

My bad - I misread the screen shot!

Posts 325
Steve Farson | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 30 2014 10:47 AM

I have the Driscoll sermon archive and find it excellent.  Edgy, heartfelt, and biblically incisive for the culture.  It has its place.  But, I'm curious... If I install Logos on another PC someday, will the Driscoll sermon archive still download?

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