I'm a bit overwhelmed by L4

I'm finding myself going back to L3 because it feels more comfortable. I know, I know you can tell me anything new is uncomfortable. I've been in technology a long time and am rather used to learning new things. I don't know what to say. I just can't find how to do things in L4 that it has taken me years and many of Moe's seminars to customize until it is very useful to me. Here's a few issues:

The home page pushes more stuff in cluttered pages that I want. I liked to old format where I could hide/expand areas I'm interested in. I've tried customizing it but it doesn't work well or offer much control over layout. For example I used to have several devotionals on my home page that I could easily access. Now I can't. It has Morning and Evening and that's all. I can't change the order of stuff on the home pages by dragging items as it says to. I tried creating a reading list for "For The Love of God" but it doesn't work.

I had set up custom toolbars in L3 that really allowed me to access tools and materials very quickly. I have no idea how to do the equivalent in L4. Sure some of it is absorbed into the new layout, making the old ways of accessing unnecessary, but other things are gone. I'm left bewildered.

I, like many other pastors am out of work and can't travel to one of Moe's new seminars. I'll just have to wait until he comes to our area.

I'm not complaining, but am letting you know that after setting up L4 and working with it a bit over a few weeks, it's not yet so user friendly that I can leave L3 behind, yet if I don't I won't ever get used to it.

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

davidphillips

I had set up custom toolbars in L3 that really allowed me to access tools and materials very quickly. I have no idea how to do the equivalent in L4. Sure some of it is absorbed into the new layout, making the old ways of accessing unnecessary, but other things are gone. I'm left bewildered.

Jim,

What in particular are you looking for that is gone that is causing the bewilderment? Did you know you can drag and drop tools into the area just to the right of the command bar and they will show up there as shortcuts? This may allow you to have access to things in a similar way to the toolbars you used in L3.

I can't help with the devotionals unfortunately.

As for the reading list, do you mean a reading plan? The two are very different. I don't have the resource you mentioned so I can't check to see if there's a problem with it, but to create a reading plan, Click "file" and then "reading plan" (under New). You can then set the parameters for how you'd like to read.

Keep asking questions! [:)]

Friedrich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/67102#Comment_67102

Hi Jim--and by the way, for some reason I think I know you but i can't figure out where . . .

David is right that you can drag tools (like "favorites" or "copy bible verses" and they will show as little icons. BUTTTTT, you can also drag books there too. So if you always wanted easy access to a handful of books (bible, devotional, etc) you can drag them to the 'shortcut menu" and you will see them appear as little book cover icons (and MUCH better than L3, because they will be the actual book cover, not just a generic red or blue cover.

David is also correct about reading plans being different that reading lists. I have a reading plan for reading matthew in 4 days, for instance.

Another idea for your devotional:

in the command bar/box type close all. That will get rid of open windows
then use your library to open the devotionals you want to read from. I use Kenneth Boa's Handbook for Prayer and another one, for instance. I also have a Bible open.
Then drop down the layout menu (upper right) and where is says 'snapshot' with "now" in the upper left ("snapshot" as a word appears in bottom center), click on the pencil, which will allow you to rename it from "snapshot" to "devotional time" (or whatever you want.)

You have now saved that "layout" (like a "workspace" in L3) and it will appear in the left side menu of saved layouts within the layout drop down menu. Every time you click on that, your layout will open as you saved it. All the resources, etc.

Now, if you want it to keep opening it up to the same place you left off (in your reading), you need to resave the layout. Here is where it is a tad cumbersome, and Logos as promised to fix with an easy solution . . . but for now, here is what you do:

you pull down the layout menu, and over the "now" snapshop, which shows your "devotional layout" upon you most recent use of that layout (ie, where your resources have been scrolled too, etc), rename that with the EXACT title of your layout, ie, "devotional time" (or whatever). That over writes your last layout by that name. If you happen to misspell or add something different, like Devotional tyme", then you will have created to layouts, with different titles, but with those same resources: but one is as you first set it up, the other would reflect your changes. If you do that by mistake, no worries. You can just rename the one you want with the correct title or layout.

Tim Hogan

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/67102#Comment_67102

hey Jim,

With the devotionals, prioritize devotionals above the Morning and Evening one and that should get you there. What ever you prioritize above Morning and Evening will come in Home Page, and Morning and Evening will be last one. Put in 5 and you get the 6 every time

tim

Randall Hartman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/67119#Comment_67119

Jim,

Want to learn L4? Delete L3. Guarantee that you will learn L4.

Pam Larson

I tried creating a reading list for "For The Love of God" but it doesn't work.

For non-Bible resources, reading plans only work if the resource has page numbers. Devotionals don't appear to have page numbers. But if you prioritize them they will show up on the home page for the current date.

Jim VanSchoonhoven

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/67133#Comment_67133

Jim, I believe I can feel your pain, I bought Logos 4 on the first day it came out, I had so many things go wrong that I could fill a book with the problems I had, and the things I hated about Logos 4.

After about 3 weeks I was ready to forget it all and just use Libronix 3, because I really did know how to use it!

On the very day I was going to quite along came Moe's 2 new books on Logos 4. What a shock my wife had ordered them for me! They helped out so much it was hard to believe. If I wanted to find something I could find it in the books. At about the same time some of the guys started doing those work flow videos that you can find on the wiki site at http://wiki.logos.com/ . Now things were starting to make sense, I than ordered the CD put out by John Fallahee on how to use Logos 4. found at http://www.learnlogos.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=frontpage&Itemid=60

The two books were 60.00 plus shipping, wiki videos are free and the John Fallahee videos are currently on sale for 25.00 plus shipping.

With these resources I was really able to start using Logos 4. Now things just keep getting better and better each day and I only need Libronix 3 for things that are not in Logos 4.

I must confess, I no longer do things the same way I had to do them in Libronix 3, Logos 4 is very different, and I think it is better. I have a hard time hearing myself say that, if you only knew how much I hated Logos 4 those first 3 weeks, you would understand.

Expect to have to do almost everything differently in Logos 4, get the resources I mentioned, they make it easy to find out how to do things, don't waste all your time trying to find all the answers in the forum or on the Logos site, both have some great information but it is hard to find.

Best wishes and remember, at least you can always work in Libronix 3, at least in my case the price I paid for the Logos 4 was worth it, just for the new books that I got in Libronix 3. there is nothing wrong in using Libronix 3.

In Christ,

Jim

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/67177#Comment_67177

Well, everyone else has already chimed in while I was constructing my reply to you, so I hope you still find it useful:

I'm finding myself going back to L3 because it feels more comfortable. I know, I know you can tell me anything new is uncomfortable. I've been in technology a long time and am rather used to learning new things. I don't know what to say. I just can't find how to do things in L4 that it has taken me years and many of Moe's seminars to customize until it is very useful to me. Here's a few issues:

I don't know if it'll make you feel any better, but you're not alone. Many of us felt that way when first faced with L4 and it took several weeks to get comfortable with it. Asking questions here is a good first step, as many of us have been through the learning curve already and can help you find where things you're used to have gotten moved to in the new design. Sometimes it's just moved somewhere new, and sometimes it's a whole new paradigm shift you'll have to get used to. But once you do, we think you'll find it's easier and faster. It's shouldn't take "years and many...seminars" to learn and "customize until it is very useful." That was a major problem with the old version. It was too hard to make useful, so not many people bothered. Logos feels your pain, and that of the few people who did take the trouble, and is making lots of resources available to help you make the transition. To start with, have you watched all the training videos they've put up on http://www.logos.com/videos? After you've been through those, check out some of the even awesomer ones done by a couple of seasoned Logos 4 users. Mark Barnes and John Fidel's videos get continual rave reviews, especially Mark's. Find links to these and others on the Logos 4 Video Tutorials page of the Wiki. The Wiki is under development by users like me, and it's growing to become a useful resource for how-to questions. This Forum is also fantastic, as there are lots of users who read and respond daily.

The home page pushes more stuff in cluttered pages that I want. I liked to old format where I could hide/expand areas I'm interested in. I've tried customizing it but it doesn't work well or offer much control over layout. For example I used to have several devotionals on my home page that I could easily access. Now I can't. It has Morning and Evening and that's all.

You might try using Favorites for this instead. In order to make sure that a devotional will open to the current date (instead of the date you happened to drag it to a favorites folder) you need to drag it first from your Library to your Shortcut Bar, and then from your Shortcut Bar to a Favorites folder. I've created a short (4 min) video showing you what I mean.

(I tried to embed it but it's too slow to download that way; so here's a link to it: Devotionals)

Also here's an example of a layout you might use (which you can save with the name Devotionals) if you always want to open up all your devotionals at once when you read them. Just make a shortcut for your Devotionals layout and click on that icon and you'll be all set.

I can't change the order of stuff on the home pages by dragging items as it says to.

As what says to? Perhaps you're thinking of dragging the tabbed resources around in the main Logos page to position them (as seen in my video above). You can't do that with items on the Home Page. Think of the Home Page as something you might look at once just when you start up each day but for the most part you won't hang out there. I don't even use it at all and have disabled it. I might check to see if there's anything new there in the pre-pubs or blog section every couple of weeks. But that's it. I do everything else in the main Logos window, not the Home Page.

I had set up custom toolbars in L3 that really allowed me to access tools and materials very quickly. I have no idea how to do the equivalent in L4. Sure some of it is absorbed into the new layout, making the old ways of accessing unnecessary, but other things are gone. I'm left bewildered.

As others have said, use Shortcuts to make your favorite tools more accessible. As for discovering what new Tools in L4 do what you used to remember doing some other way in L3, you'll just have to plunge into the learning curve and get to know the features on the File, Guides, and Tools menus.

Some of the best pages on the wiki to read are:

I'm sure there are some more worth reading to help get up to speed, but explore around and you'll find them.

Finally, I like to keep this analogy in mind when I'm learning something completely new. At first I don't have any shelving in my mental closet to put the new stuff in, so it falls all over the floor if I try to put it in there. So I have to build the shelving first. As new stuff comes at me, I've got to decide whether it'll be good for shelving or whether it's "stuff" that needs to go on shelving later. If it's "stuff" sometimes I need to let it fall on the floor temporarily until I get the shelving that it's going to ultimately go on. But I keep collecting the "stuff" anyway, because I know that one day it will be useful and will make more sense to me. Hope that helps! And hope we can help you build some shelving for your Logos "closet" in the next week or two.

Blessings,
Rosie

Allen Browne

Yep: L4 is radically different. Like others here, i can relate.

The home page pushes more stuff in cluttered pages that I want.

Agreed. Turn it off. (Bottom left of homepage.)

I had set up custom toolbars in L3

Me too. In L4, you just open something, and drag its tab to the toolbar to create a shortcut. Works for resources, fav's, settings, ...

like many other pastors am out of work and can't travel to one of Moe's new seminars.

So there's time to experiment, read the forums and wiki and post questions?

In my part of the world that's all we can do.

... after setting up L4 and working with it a bit over a few weeks, ... I don't I won't ever get used to it.

Yes, it's very different. They've managed to 'hide' much of the complexity behind a 'simplified' interface -- so much so that it's not obvious where to find stuff.

The breakthrough may come once you develop an L4 mindset (prioritized resources, dynamic collections, layouts, floating windows, ...) rather than trying to implement the L3 methodologies that had become familiar as to feel automatic.

God bless for 2010. Praying you have unexpected opportunities for fruitful work in Father's field, Jim.

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/67132#Comment_67132

Want to learn L4? Delete L3. Guarantee that you will learn L4.

There are some on these forums who will seek to tar and feather you for that suggestion [8-|]. However, it will work. I have seldom L3 since installing L4. When I moved my installation from Fusion 2 to Parallels 5, I intentionally did not install L3. If I have not choice to return to L3, I will be forced to learn L4.

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/67133#Comment_67133

For non-Bible resources, reading plans only work if the resource has page numbers.

Pam

I must disagree with you here, as I have reading operational plans for resources that do not have page numbers "The Prophets Still Speak" & "The Holiness of God"). The readings are then divided by headings rather than by page #.

Jack Caviness

I know you can tell me anything new is uncomfortable.

For the first couple of weeks, I was also unhappy with L4 and posted my frustrations on these forums. I believe my comment was something like "I don't like being pressed into someone else's mold for Bible Study". Fortunately, I soon learned that L4 does not press me into anyone's mold. It is customizable, but it is different. Stick with it; you will not regret it in the long run.

Ronald Arndt

yeah me to.Im a 67 year old senior and I also had 3.0 before I upgraded to 4.0.The problem is there are no similiar features between 3.0 and 4.0. The 4.0 program is very confusing and OVERWHELMING for average people who are not PC geeks. Although typing in a word or words on a subject is nice. I feel Libronix should have mailed out a cd manual or printed manual to it's buyers or the medal of honor. I don't know if I can get a refund for the upgrade myself, but Im considering doing so

Pam Larson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/68432#Comment_68432

For non-Bible resources, reading plans only work if the resource has page numbers.

Pam

I must disagree with you here, as I have reading operational plans for resources that do not have page numbers "The Prophets Still Speak" & "The Holiness of God"). The readings are then divided by headings rather than by page #.

Can you give an example of how to set that up? Or point me to instructions somewhere? Thanks. [:)]

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/68456#Comment_68456

yeah me to.Im a 67 year old senior and I also had 3.0 before I upgraded to 4.0.The problem is there are no similiar features between 3.0 and 4.0. The 4.0 program is very confusing and OVERWHELMING for average people who are not PC geeks. Although typing in a word or words on a subject is nice. I feel Libronix should have mailed out a cd manual or printed manual to it's buyers or the medal of honor. I don't know if I can get a refund for the upgrade myself, but Im considering doing so

There really are lots of similar features, but they are hidden underneath a completely new user interface. What are some of your favorite features from L3 and we'll tell you where to find them in L4. And once you find them, you'll see they worked the way they always used to in L3 only better -- faster or with more information or nicer graphics.

For an example, you might have liked to make collections of all your favorite resources in Logos 3. That was under Tools | Define Collections. Well, Collections are still a big part of Logos 4 and how you refine your searches. They are now located under Tools | Collections, and you can add books to them by dragging and dropping from your library (the equivalent of the old way of clicking on the "Add" button in L3, only it's easier to get to now; and also now Collections have got a really useful new feature which is that they can be dynamically defined using a "rule" so that any new books you might add to your library will automatically get added to the appropriate collection; say, for example you had made a collection of all your Bible Dictionaries; no more having to remember to add new books to it whenever you buy them. For info on the new way of doing collections in Logos 4, read this article on the wiki.

I think it would be very helpful if Logos would produce a quick reference guide for people upgrading from Logos 3 showing where to find the commands they used to know in L3. Those of us users who are working on editing the wiki might get around to making one...and it's people like you who motivate me to want to do that.

Juanita

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/68456#Comment_68456

yeah me to.Im a 67 year old senior and I also had 3.0 before I upgraded to 4.0.The problem is there are no similiar features between 3.0 and 4.0. The 4.0 program is very confusing and OVERWHELMING for average people who are not PC geeks. Although typing in a word or words on a subject is nice. I feel Libronix should have mailed out a cd manual or printed manual to it's buyers or the medal of honor. I don't know if I can get a refund for the upgrade myself, but Im considering doing so

Hi Ronald,

I, too, am a senior and L4 is VERY different than version 3. Have you tried watching the free instructional videos here http://www.logos.com/videos?

They really help you get accustomed to, first, new home page and then acquaint you with the various features. It has not been an overnight transition for me; try months. Still, I have much to learn. But I run version 3, still. My thoughts are if I do not continue to advance with Logos as they produce new versions, then at some point when hardware and software changes and upgrades, version 3 (if I were to stop right here) would some day not work on whatever computer I have. In a nutshell, that's how I view it. Others may see it differently.

It is easier for "geek types" who love the new technology. But it's "do-able" . I suggest watching the videos and learn the new look first. And frequent the forums and ask questions. God Bless

Richard Koons

I just purchased L4 have been playing with it for a day now I find it to be rather difficult to use at first to a point of being useless As a software engineer by trade I think all the basic rules of development have been ignored number 1 keep it simple, num 2 make it easy to customize via for user preference, first off customizing your collections is absurd you have to drag and drop individually what happened to right click, another flaw you should be able to select multiple books to use or archive based on preference this is bad development period. Another flaw as I selected a bible I noticed that as you peruse a verse your reference material doesnt always work (i.e. automatically move to those refs containing info based on the verse your looking at) while at this time your refs works and additional materials (i.e. Library collections are superior to your competitors) if it is difficult to use what purpose is this L4 for. Another note for those of us that read a bible chapter by chapter or book by book I find it hard to use based off the above as generally I like to open my bible software not always with particular verses in mind (i.e. I may decide today I want to read 1 peter and perhaps when I get there I decide to open up jude instead)Now for the logos applications over all I am aware it is difficult to develope indexed based apps period (that is to say tedious) so I have much respect for the developers however at the price a customer pays for these products it should be close to perfection with the knowledge not everyone of your customers is going to be an IT wiz. Thus this app should be much easier to use at the start and less clutters. If you arent careful your competitors may surpass you not because of the overwelming library contents but because the library contents they offer are easily used.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/68525#Comment_68525

I think all the basic rules of development have been ignored

Sorry, but I have to disagree although we might disagree on the basic rules as well since my first rule is "understand the problem" my second tule is "understand the user" ...[:)]

number 1 keep it simple

The KISS formula works only if you put it in context - the simplist solution to a particular problem. Simple sometimes is simply minimal function.

num 2 make it easy to customize via for user preference,

Each customizable feature adds complexity to the functions and to the users' "get up to speed time" - moderation and good judgment in the tradeoffs are the key.

That seems to be end end of your rules.

Each of your individual points are cases where (a) your personal preference is not the implemented choice [I prefer drag-and-drop to right clip for example] (b) you may not have known how to make the feature work (making resources work in tandem) , (c) I don't understand the nature of your complaint (opening a Bible to any point - TOC doesn't provide this? or (d) cases where one man's visual clutter is another man's newpaper ... luckily one can cancel the subscription.

If you want to provide concrete examples of what you need that is not provided, the members of this forum will gladly direct you to the answers or recommend that you send the relevant suggestions to Logos.

J.R. Miller

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/68525#Comment_68525

make it easy to customize via for user preference, first off customizing your collections is absurd you have to drag and drop individually what happened to right click,

Is there a rule about watching the videos? [;)] If not, they are quite helpful and would show you that dragging and dropping is not the way to make collections.

http://www.logos.com/videos

You could always use this convenient instructional piece on the wiki

http://wiki.logos.com/Collections

Another flaw as I selected a bible I noticed that as you peruse a verse your reference material doesnt always work (i.e. automatically move to those refs containing info based on the verse your looking at) while at this time your refs works and additional materials

You mean like linking the Bible and commentary so they scroll together?

So how would Logos fix this "flaw"? Hmm....

Maybe the could create a way to link resources together by clicking on the book cover at the top left of each window and then a person could select a link set for each resource so they scroll in tandem... that would be cool.

Like Linking the Pillar NT Commentary on Romans

to the ESV

I sure hope Logos does something like this [;)]

J.R. Miller

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/68525#Comment_68525

Another note for those of us that read a bible chapter by chapter or book by book I find it hard to use based off the above as generally I like to open my bible software not always with particular verses in mind (i.e. I may decide today I want to read 1 peter and perhaps when I get there I decide to open up jude instead

Something cool here might be a box at the top of the Bible where we could type in the name of the book of the Bible.

Like 1 Peter

And then if I change my mind, it would be great if I could then just type in the name of the new book and the Bible would go there

that would be neat [;)]

Chris Elford

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/68525#Comment_68525

I just purchased L4 have been playing with it for a day now I find it to be rather difficult to use at first to a point of being useless As a software engineer by trade I think all the basic rules of development have been ignored number 1 keep it simple, num 2 make it easy to customize via for user preference, first off customizing your collections is absurd you have to drag and drop individually what happened to right click, another flaw

Richard,

What are your questions? Please don't just rant and rail. We know you are an expert at everything Logos does, in your own mind, but putting it down doesn't get help. It gets sarcasm and it gets ignored.

Please read "How to ask help" http://community.logos.com/forums/t/7879.aspx and check out the resources on the wiki and Logos website (see the aforementioned post and my signature line for links) that many people have painstakingly put together to help people learn to use Logos 4.

If I got in your car and simply said, "This is useless! They should have put the key slot there." Would you feel I wanted help or just wanted to put it down?

Chris

Doug

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/68568#Comment_68568

Something cool here might be a box at the top of the Bible where we could type in the name of the book of the Bible.

Like 1 Peter

And then if I change my mind, it would be great if I could then just type in the name of the new book and the Bible would go there

Ooohhh! I hope they do that one. I'm so tired of having to scroll from Genesis to 1 Peter. It wears out my finger.[:S]

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/68456#Comment_68456

yeah me to.Im a 67 year old senior and I also had 3.0 before I upgraded to 4.0.The problem is there are no similiar features between 3.0 and 4.0. The 4.0 program is very confusing and OVERWHELMING for average people who are not PC geeks. Although typing in a word or words on a subject is nice. I feel Libronix should have mailed out a cd manual or printed manual to it's buyers or the medal of honor. I don't know if I can get a refund for the upgrade myself, but Im considering doing so

I am older than you, but I never thought that my age gave me a license for rudeness. As I pointed out in another thread, every post you have made has been nothing buy ranting and raving. If you have a question, ask it. If you want a refund, call Customer Service.

Roger Feenstra

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/68525#Comment_68525

rather difficult to use at first to a point of being useless

Richard,

This is probably one of the best Threads you could have found on the Forums site. There are so many good links to helpful information. If you take the time, and watch the vids, you will be amazed at just what this program can do. I agree, at first glance, it seems overwhelming, but read some of this helpful info in this Thread and I guarantee that you'll be a fan of this software.

In particular, check out Rosie's comments and click on the Wiki link. The videos are very well done.

Sometimes, even software engineers need to be challenged and stretched. I'm not an IT wiz and I have been able to do some pretty cool things with L4. It just takes some determination to learn something that may not seem intuitive at first, then you'll find yourself saying, "Oh wow! It does that!".

Hang in there.

Roger

Richard Koons

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/68843#Comment_68843

No I wasn't exactly ranting or raving but all the tips even those whom were a bit out of line I do appreciate however for most of the suggestions the answer is still why? I run three biblical software applications on my machine two already work fine with little or no expertise required with the product. But I am not out to advertise what I see is with the L4 application I purchased compared to what was advertised by video are two seperate apps the links don't work well period or might I say tags or metatags yes they appear to work when you enter into a bible section but lets say you dip out of your current section not scrolling but opening the directory of you bible and selecting any one of the books of the version your reading what I have noticed as a common flaw is the panes to the right that keep your ref materials tend to stop working and sometimes they do work. Now I believe one should be able to filter their ref works I went in to do this and it is a nightmare almost like stepping back a few years. i didnt' me to jump into the realm of advertising my expertise I just want to point out I can pretty much figure out what the app is doing based of my development of apps similar and or more advanced than this one but in the business realm. But what about the average person I wouldn't think you would want to hold siminars but for the purpose of showing your not so evident caviarsnot for your basic usage especially for the price.this written I love the maps and the interlinears are excellent but the references commentaries probably will use the other products as they don't require much time to use and the links work apart from having to do anything period which is what I hoped to do with this app.

Richard Koons

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/68843#Comment_68843

Sorry I meant the left side panes of references[:D]

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/69033#Comment_69033

but opening the directory of you bible and selecting any one of the books of the version your reading what I have noticed as a common flaw is the panes to the right that keep your ref materials tend to stop working and sometimes they do work.

I've not had this problem - but then again, I may not understand precisely what you means as each of us likely stacks our panes differently. What reference books are you getting inconsistent results on?

filter their ref works

I do filter my reference books via collections and a custom Passage Guide. This allows me to effectively have multiple filters in place. Again what filtering are you trying to do and how are you trying to do it?

Friedrich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/69033#Comment_69033

not so evident caviarsnot

I am not sure I have ever seen caviar snot, nor would I want to see it. I guess I am glad it is not so evident. . . .[:P]

Sorry, not sure what that meant, but it just sounded funny. Caviar snot. chuckle.

Richard Koons

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/69311#Comment_69311

Sorry I meant caviars and not but a typo what I described with the filtering you should be able to hide multiple books by using multpile selections not a single drag and drop thats tedious we all have preferred works or ref books so if you want to lets say hide a book and or delete a book you find unuseful which doning this should help the apps performance (i.e. not having to filter through all works) apart from creating your filters as needed or on the fly when I went in to begin with you can only do one selection at a time, this is archaic considering the technolgy available and the relative ease to add this in the developers code and this can be a suggestion. With the left panels no matter which way you choose either scrolling or selecting a different book those links should be dynamic as advertised (unless I have a corrupt install this is a bug or flaw) What I wrote concerning ease is really a word to the wise. Years ago Logos was fairly much the only advance biblical application out here however today their competitors from the standpoint of performance and libraries are beginning to catch up or from a performance standpoint are even surpassing logos. Yes this app is complicated and the ref libraries are outstanding now what would be excellent is instead of being afraid to change application modules which includes massive app development I am thinking if logos wants to remain topdog really they have no choice. I like the logos but I think it should be brought up to the new standards of technology and development.

J. Morris

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/69577#Comment_69577

IMO L4 is set up rather well for the new inexperienced user. Type in a verse into the go box and whola!

Getting into all the bells and whistles is what takes more time and REQUIRES more patience and perseverance.

Much like L3, in L4 you can 'dig' as deep as you want, but digging will take some time to learn the program. If I wanted an overall 'simpler' program, I wouldn't pay the money I did for L3/L4 and just use one of the free Bible software programs that are basic and greatly lacking in features.

Speaking of features, L4 is full of them (with more to come). Anytime you add more features (or customization), you are adding to the learning curve. I LIKE features, the more the better. But I've also got to understand if I want/get more features, I've also got to learn how to use them... (again requiring patience and perseverance)

Like L3, L4 can be used by most anyone because it has basic, intermediate, and advanced tools. You can choose which ones to use...

The frustration comes when a basic user IMMEDIATELY wants to be able to do all the advanced things with out first putting in the REQUIRED patience and perseverance (notice the reoccurring theme)

With L3 I became very frustrated because I had seen where 'power-users' were doing amazing things with the program. I didn't know how and, at the time, wasn't willing to take the time to learn so I got upset because I wanted to IMMEDIATELY become a 'power-user' with out exercising the patience and perseverance required FIRST.

-------------------------------------------

-This all being true, my biggest 'beef' has been and is that with the inherient ability of L4 (or L3 for that matter) of being able to really dig deep (advanced features) why doesn't it COME WITH advanced manuals (Ex. the 2 like Morris') that will show the user how to move from being a basic user to the more advanced features?

If a basic user WANTS to become a more advanced user he/she almost has to spend extra money to lean how to greater use the program he/she already has. This method has continued to baffle me since the release of L3.

Robert Pavich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/69577#Comment_69577

you should be able to hide multiple books by using multpile selections not a single drag and drop thats tedious

Agreed.

If you open your library in a floating pane and then dock it on the left, and then open the program settings on the right...that makes the process a little less painful.

apart from creating your filters as needed or on the fly when I went in to begin with you can only do one selection at a time, this is archaic considering the technolgy available and the relative ease to add this in the developers code and this can be a suggestion.

I have no idea what you just said...sorry.

Years ago Logos was fairly much the only advance biblical application out here however today their competitors from the standpoint of performance and libraries are beginning to catch up or from a performance standpoint are even surpassing logos.

If someone is surpassing Logos in this area I'd like to know who they are [:D] BW would be the only serious competitor...and it's no where near Logos in resource depth.

Richard...ask a few questions that are specific to your particular problems...we'd like to help you....a few screen shots would also probably help....

J. Morris

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/69604#Comment_69604

If a basic user WANTS to become a more advanced user he/she almost has to spend extra money to lean how to greater use the program he/she already has. This method has continued to baffle me since the release of L3.

Fortunately, to a significant degree thanks to some very talented L4 users, this need has been reduced somewhat. I don't recall such a great response from the Logos public for L3 in user made videos.

Thank-You to all those who have taken the time to make these valueble tools to share with the rest of us. I know I REALLY appreciate it.