"Restoration Movement" Base Package (churches of Christ/Christian Churches/Disciples of Christ)
Logos I would like to suggest that you create a "Restoration Movement" Base Package. Below are some of the Authors I would like to see in this package as well as some links to publishers and/or books stores where these books can be purchased.
Some authors:
Alexander Campbell
H. Leo Boles
Barton W. Stone
J.W. McGarvey
F. LaGard Smith
John Mark Hicks
Richard Rogers
Ed Wharton
Jim McGuiggan
Jack Cottrell
Everett Ferguson
Homer Hailey
James Burton Coffman
Wayne Jackson
Some specific resources:
The Gospel Advocate Magazine
the Gospel Advocate NT Commentaries
Truth For Today Commentaries
Some internet sites/links that might be helpful in getting this package going:
http://www.therestorationmovement.com/
http://www.therestorationmovement.com/books.htm
www.gospeladvocate.com
http://tuckersbooks.com/index.php
https://www.logos.com/product/16250/florida-college-annual-lectures
https://www.logos.com/product/9684/christianity-magazine
http://www.amazon.com/Homer-Hailey/e/B001KIXQIE/ref=sr_tc_2_0?qid=1400212645&sr=1-2-ent
http://www.amazon.com/Churches-Christ-20th-Century-Personal/dp/0817312803/
www.thebible.net
www.searchingfortruth.org
www.apologeticspress.org
http://www.jimmcguiggan.com/
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_0_15?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=jim+mcguiggan+books&sprefix=%22jim+mcguiggan%22%2Caps%2C128&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Ajim+mcguiggan+books
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=john+mark+hicks&sprefix=%22jim+mcguiggan%22%2Caps%2C128&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Ajohn+mark+hicks
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=F.+LaGard+Smith&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3AF.+LaGard+Smith
http://www.gravelhillchurchofchrist.com/publications.htm
http://www.faulkner.edu/gnl/webresources/restoration/publication.aspx
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=a9_asi_1?rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Ahomer+hailey&keywords=homer+hailey&ie=UTF8&qid=1400243913
http://resourcepublications.net/
"Restoration Movement" Base Package (churches of Christ/Christian Churches/Disciples of Christ) Logos I would like to suggest that you create a "Restoration Movement" Base Package.
Logos I would like to suggest that you create a "Restoration Movement" Base Package.
I just wrote a snail mail letter to the folks at Getwell, urging them to consider it and gave them the contact info for Logos.
I'm sure if more people wrote in with this request, they'd give it more consideration.
Their address is 1511 Getwell Rd, Memphis, TN 38111.
I just wrote a snail mail letter to the folks at Getwell,
This is a very good move ... and often it works.
I am very excited with the recent release of the Anglican and Orthodox base packages. I would like to ask if there are any plans for a Methodist/Wesleyan package or a Restoration Movement package. I really hope so.
a Methodist/Wesleyan package
Yes, to be quite honest, I was absolutely shocked that a mainline denomination would be so late to the party. And before commenting decided to google some rough numbers, and to my further surprise...
SDA Membership in US 18,479,257
Methodists Membership in US 7.3 million
So my comment WOULD'VE been, "how could they have an SDA base package before a Methodist package?", but now, I guess it is because there are more than twice as many (roughly).
More interesting stats...
The National Council of Church’s report on church membership lists the following organizations as the top ten biggest religious denominations in the U.S.A.:
After seeing the rest of these numbers, it would still seem like Methodists would be a higher priority than some of the others.
So I took the denominations listed by The National Council of Churches and grouped them by the headings that Logos has supplied as titles for their current movement-specific base packages (Catholic, Baptist, Wesleyan/Methodist, Charismatic, Lutheran, Reformed, Anglican, Orthodox, SDA). Then I created a heading for Restoration Movement and added the numbers for the three major streams of the Movement so that we can compare numbers (because we’re asking for a “Restoration Movement Base Package;” not a “Church of Christ,” “Disciples of Christ,” or “Christian Church” version). For comparison’s sake, the Restoration Movement comes in as the seventh largest group of those like-minded theological families.
I did not list Mormons or Jehovah’s Witnesses (who are on the NCC’s list), just because Logos doesn’t already have a Base Package for them. If we did, they would rank 6th and 11th, respectively.
So, it would look like to me that the Restoration Movement should be “next on their list.”
Catholic
68,202,492
The Catholic Church
Baptist
29,651,610
National Baptist Convention, U.S.A., Inc.
5,197,512
National Baptist Convention of America, Inc.
3,500,000
National Missionary Baptist Convention of America
2,500,000
American Baptist Churches in the U.S.A.
1,308,054
Progressive National Baptist Convention, Inc.
1,010,000
Southern Baptist Convention
16,136,044
Wesleyan/Methodist
11,579,850
African Methodist Episcopal Church
The African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church
1,400,000
The United Methodist Church
7,679,850
Charismatic
11,404,866
Assemblies of God
3,030,944
Pentecostal Assemblies of the World, Inc.
1,800,000
Church of God (Cleveland, Tennessee)
1,074,047
The Church of God in Christ
5,499,875
Lutheran
6,553,441
The Lutheran Church— Missouri Synod (LCMS)
2,278,586
Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
4,274,855
Reformed
3,734,296
United Church of Christ
1,058,423
Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.)
2,675,873
Restoration Movement
3,336,363
Churches of Christ
1,639,495
Christian Churches and Churches of Christ
1,071,616
Dsicples of Christ
625,252
Anglican
1,951,907
The Episcopal Church
Orthodox
1,500,000
Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America
SDA
1,060,386
Seventh-day Adventist Church
There's certainly an argument to be made, if you mean next after Wesleyan/Methodist. I'd like to see this data added to equivalent data from other English-speaking countries to take into account international markets.
I wrote to the Getwell Church of Christ who publishes The Spiritual Sword quarterly. This was their reply.
Thank you for your recent letter concerning The Spiritual Sword and Logos. We already have a CD-ROM of The Spiritual Sword. It contains years 1 -43. It was updated 3 years ago so there are 3 years not on it. But the elders do plan on updating it within the next 2 years. It has a search engine on it. It is available for $50.00 plus $2.00 S & H. However it is copyrighted so it could not be used by Logos or any other electronic company to put on their software or website. The only place it purchase it is through our websites, www.getwellchurchofchrist.org or www.spiritualsword.org . Again thank you for your interest in The Spiritual Sword.
I get the feel that they don't quite understand the idea of granting a license to use their material through Logos. Maybe they think they're giving up editorial control if someone else is involved with the publishing?
In the past I've also contacted Restoration Quarterly at Abilene Christian University. They - at the time - were not interested in digital publication because of other arrangements. They wrote, "All back issues of Restoration Quarterly are available on ATLA (American Theological Library Association). Institutions pay a license to digitize all issues. I'm sure we could not make such a deal with Logos, since we already have an arrangement."
Of course, this keeps RQ in the hands of academics and out of the hands of ministers. ... oh well!
I get the feel that they don't quite understand the idea of granting a license to use their material through Logos.
It sounds like they don't understand that FL would pay them royalties.
I had a significantly higher number for SDA Membership in US "18,479,257"
SDA 1,060,386 Seventh-day Adventist Church 1,060,386
I get the feel that they don't quite understand the idea of granting a license to use their material through Logos. It sounds like they don't understand that FL would pay them royalties.
Both responses suggest a certain lack of familiarity with how electronic publishing works. Perhaps that's not surprising, since neither group is a traditional publisher.
James Taylor,
According to www.adventist.org/world-church/north-american/ there are 1,100,000 Seventh Day Adventist members in all of North America. They cite 18,028,796 for worldwide membership (http://www.adventistreview.org/church-news/adventist-church-membership-passes-18-million-member-mark).
I did not do much additional research on these numbers, nor did I add any numbers from outside the United States. I'm sure Logos has users in other countries besides the United States (but I wonder: are all licenses available in non-US locations?), but I'd wager that the lion's share of their users are here (English language and finances both being major considerations).
SineNomine,
You're right from a numbers stand-point. There's not currently a Base Package for Wesleyan/Methodist viewpoints. I saw that Logos had a whole selection of resources tagged as belonging to that tradition (https://www.logos.com/products/search?Christian+Group=Methodist/Wesleyan) and assumed that they had a Base Package for them, too.
I guess they call these groups of similar faith traditions "Christian Groups"...
My mistake, I googled SDA members in US and thats where I saw that number, I was definitely shocked by the number of them, and now that makes sense.
But that certainly underscores the situation even more, there are 12 times as many Methodists as SDAs and somehow the SDA has a package long before. Mysterious to say the least.
Thanks
I had the editor of RQ do a seminar and while I was either bringing him from airport or to the airport, I asked him about RQ on Logos. He does not see any value there. If someone is going to or a graduate of an accredited graduate theological institution, then that person should have free access to RQ. Thus, he does not sense there being much demand for purchasing RQ.
By this logical, Catholics should have been the first to have a package. [:)] But it's not that simple:
Try contacting Alan Highers directly. He attends elsewhere, but as I'm sure you know he is the editor. I spoke with him some months ago. He seemed open to the idea but I never got anything to come from it. Maybe more people contacting him will increase the odds of getting Spiritual Sword onboard with Logos.
If a theological stream has their own software whether officially or via a publisher it is harder to get cooperation from the publishers and harder to build a market. If a denomination has a single, or very fewer publishers, if that publisher is anxious to work with you, it is easy to build a market up quickly. If a theological stream has publishers who won't "play nice" with each other (I won't license mine to be in a package with theirs), it is difficult to build up marketable packages. If a theological stream is divided into many little rivulets and the market is fiercely loyal to their own rivulet, it is difficult to build packages of reasonable size that won't contain too much "offensive" or useless material.
thanks for bringing us back down from our illogical hot air balloon. we were just about to float away
I've emailed him (Highers) in the past. I didn't receive a reply. When I have more time, I might try again. I can only afford to spend so much time doing - what I see as - other people's work for them.
If a publisher doesn't want a wider market for his book, I don't understand.
If a preacher doesn't want the ear of more people for his message, I don't understand.
It shouldn't be this hard in 2015 (nearly 2016!) to see digital publishing as an established phenomenon, rather than a fad or trend.
Levi, I should have opportunity within the next few weeks to talk to him again. Perhaps the material from Warren and Elkins being made available in Logos will help. I don't think Logos is viewed as a fad or trend. I think the barriers that need to be overcome are a lack of familiarity with Logos and a hesitancy to cease being the sole distributor of the material. That is in no way a critique or reflection on him or the Getwell congregation, but rather my opinion on why so few publishers that could potentially make their works available for a Restoration Movement base package have failed to do so.
Just reporting back with an update after my previous post. I did have a chance to speak with Alan Highers, editor of the Spiritual Sword. The takeaway from the conversation was this:
1. He seemed to be agreeable to the idea of getting the Spiritual Sword available in Logos.
2. He said it is not his decision to make.
3. He said our best bet would be to mail a letter to the elders of the Getwell congregation.
Maybe if several people do this we can make this happen.
Is it possible that an issue with a restoration base package is that it seems to be entirely a USA based denomination, as such it does have a very limited appeal.
The primary roots of the Restoration Movement were in the U.S., but all of the major branches of this movement have had significant foreign mission efforts going back to the late 19th century. There are a significant number of non-US congregations with connections to the movement. Remember, even in the U.S., most congregations won't have "Restoration Movement" on the sign in front of their building - it will say something like "Christian Church," Church of Christ," "Independent Christian Church" or "Disciples of Christ."
I think Australia has a significant number of congregations.
Theologically it all seems very similar to the Brethren movement to me, but perhaps I am missing something.
My father, a long time elder and son/grandnephew of ministers in the Church of Christ, also saw the Brethren as theologically similar. To me the major difference is the influence of Scottish enlightenment on the Stone-Campbell movement vs. the pietist influence on the Brethren which leads to quite different means to similar conclusions.
Theologically it all seems very similar to the Brethren movement to me, but perhaps I am missing something. My father, a long time elder and son/grandnephew of ministers in the Church of Christ, also saw the Brethren as theologically similar. To me the major difference is the influence of Scottish enlightenment on the Stone-Campbell movement vs. the pietist influence on the Brethren which leads to quite different means to similar conclusions.
It seems to me that there are two things that gave the Restoration Movement it's particular character.
Thanks everyone for these suggestions. We will look into how we can better serve our Restoration movement users.
Any news?
I also am interested in seeing Restoration Movement resources added.
[Y][Y]
Welcome to the forums, Kent!
Are we there yet? J
Doesn't look like much has changed... I'm bumping this thread, though, as I would love to see more Restoration Movement ressources published, even a base package!
Publishers: CollegePress, ACU Press, 21st Century Christian, Montex (or whoever publishes Jim McGuiggan's commentaries these days).
You left out Standard Publishing with whom FL does have a relationship.
Almost 2020 and still does not appear to be much traction...
With the Faithlife acquisition of WORDsearch, Gospel Advocate commentaries are now available in Logos!
Warren has been released in Logos format ... add in some from Wordsearch and FL is close to having enough resources for a base package.
Do you have a listing of "restoration" resources now available in Logos due to this? I saw McGarvey's sermons...
Kent, are you seeing these for sale now or just saying that these are now in the stable, someday to be processed? "Gospel Advocate" doesn't presently return any search results for me.
The Coffman commentaries are ready for pre-order. I have searched for the Gospel Advocate commentaries to try to help Levi, but were unable to find them. I already had them through Wordsearch, so I looked at the information panel to see I could find anything that could help locate them. According to the information panel, they are copyrighted by Wordsearch. The title for the GA commentary on First Corinthians is W7-3257 GAC - 1 Corinthians; for Acts it is W7-3259 - Acts. I also noticed that the name for Lipscomb (the correct spelling) is spelled Liscomb.
I started a special piggy bank and named it "Logos Investments".... So I'm getting ready... [8-|]
I would add to the list Truth for Today Commentaries by Eddie Cloer and bunch. Some of the best commentaries imho.
By this logical, Catholics should have been the first to have a package. But it's not that simple: If a theological stream has their own software whether officially or via a publisher it is harder to get cooperation from the publishers and harder to build a market. If a denomination has a single, or very few publishers, if that publisher is anxious to work with you, it is easy to build a market up quickly. If a theological stream has publishers who won't "play nice" with each other (I won't license mine to be in a package with theirs), it is difficult to build up marketable packages. If a theological stream is divided into many little rivulets and the market is fiercely loyal to their own rivulet, it is difficult to build packages of reasonable size that won't contain too much "offensive" or useless material.
By this logical, Catholics should have been the first to have a package. But it's not that simple:
Thanks for explaining this MJ.
Where are we at with Church of Christ/Restoration resources?
I am trying to build a library that is as diverse as possible, and either I don't have anything that is Church of Christ, or I don't know that it is Church of Christ.
Even if we don't have a package, could we have a subforum? Maybe a few resources pushed through pre-pub a little quicker to get things started? Or are any of the above listed issues just too insurmountable for Logos to navigate?
Here are the Gospel Advocate NT Commentaries
Gospel Advocate Complete New Testament Commentary (14 vols.) | Logos Bible Software
College Press also has some RM resources available.
https://www.logos.com/product/44195/college-press-niv-commentary
https://www.logos.com/product/4520/college-press-biblical-studies-collection
https://www.logos.com/product/4687/college-press-discipleship-collection
https://www.logos.com/product/41861/what-the-bible-says-series
Thanks James and Kent,
Is there enough published to create a package?
Is this a practical idea to be discussing? Logos can only spread itself too thin. Just because I want something doesn't mean Logos should do it. And they should do a whole lot of stuff that I have no interest in. But for the body of Christ, is this a needed resource that is overdue?
For other denominations, I have been able to just buy a library or package. When I start, I have no idea what I don't know. When I wade in, I find such amazing things in each each that I would have never known to look for.
I think I know enough to know that I have a hole in my library that I need to fill elsewhere if I cannot fill it here. But I cannot even ask about outside resources here. I am not complaining! This is on the church, all of it, not Logos, in a complicated web of mess. Logos is not the center or even a leading player in this mess.
I'm just rambling a bit from the perspective of a student, trying to learn about ALL of the church, and hoping to quote bits of all of it in my papers. The church is a body with no members less important than the others, right?
Are there any other large groups of the church not represented with a package in Logos?
Certainly:
Some forum members will object to some of my groups -- others will offer subdivisions or additional groups
Thank you for this list. I need this list to be too long, rather than too short. I don't know what I don't know.
My library has nothing Anabaptist right now. I need to rectify that immediately. It is so easy to just use what is currently the most handy.
Some of these other groups are completely new to me and need some investigation. Some groups I recognize and don't need my attention right. Others I needed to be reminded of. Like Anabaptist. Thanks!
In addition to the links above, you might look at the following:
A Commentary on Acts of the Apostles | Logos Bible Software
The Four-Fold Gospel | Logos Bible Software
New Commentary on Acts of Apostles, Volume 1 | Logos Bible Software
New Commentary on Acts of Apostles, Volume 2 | Logos Bible Software
McGarvey's Sermons | Logos Bible Software
The New Testament Commentary, vol. 1: Matthew and Mark | Logos Bible Software
Lands of the Bible: A Geographical and Topographical Description of Palestine, with Letters of Travel in Egypt, Syria, Asia Minor, and Greece | Logos Bible Software
The Authorship of the Book of Deuteronomy with Its Bearing on the Higher Criticism of the Pentateuch | Logos Bible Software
A Guide to Bible Study | Logos Bible Software
Commentary on Thessalonians, Corinthians, Galatians and Romans | Logos Bible Software
These are books by J. W. McGarvey. Some of these books were part of Wordsearch and are still in production.
Part of the Wordsearch library that came over to Logos when Logos bought Wordsearch is a set of commentaries by Burton Coffman. These also are still in production but you can still purchase them.
Another book that was part of Wordsearch is Lard's commentary on Romans: Commentary on Paul's Epistle to the Romans | Logos Bible Software
Thomas B. Warren Collection (28 vols.) | Logos Bible Software
