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Posts 1593
LogosEmployee
Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 6 2015 4:57 PM

Mark Johnson:
My undergraduate degree is in Accounting and I know it is better to "own" than to "rent"

I think that this rule of thumb wasn't built for the digital economy, which has dramatically different per-unit cost-of-goods. For example, is there any 'own' scenario that beats the economics of a Netflix subscription? If you watch a could movies / episodes each week, it's hard to see how own could ever beat rent in that scenario.

Ultimately our goal is to reduce the cost of Bible study tools. You don't have to believe us -- you're welcome to sit out Logos Now and future products, and we'll continue to serve you as we have for many years -- but I hope you'll keep an open mind and watch what follows. You'll see the Logos Now isn't about extracting more from you, it's about giving you an even better deal -- so that ultimately we can make more by serving a larger percentage of the church. Our ambition is to make Collectors-level Bible study tools and library available to everyone for just a few dollars a month. It will take a while (years?) to get there, but that's our heart and passion.

Logos Now is a great deal, and we're going to be continually making it better. But I'm not going to try to argue you into it, and we're certainly not going to force anyone into it. I'm not offended if you choose to sit it out. I'm just a little sad that you'll be missing out on such a great deal. :-)

Posts 1749
Nathan Parker | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 6 2015 4:58 PM

Will the books.Logos.com subscription be folded into this? How about future updates to FSB? I see both of these included in "Logos Now" as a good way to offer continuing marketing them.

Nathan Parker

President/CEO

Mallard Computer, Inc.

Posts 1367
LogosEmployee
Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 6 2015 5:08 PM

Nathan Parker:

Will the books.Logos.com subscription be folded into this?

We thought about that, but we wanted to make sure it didn't overlap with Logos 6 base packages initially. It's an ideal kind of thing to include. It's likely that it will get added to Now eventually.

Nathan Parker:
How about future updates to FSB?

No plans for FSB, since it's still free.

Posts 1367
LogosEmployee
Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 6 2015 5:17 PM

JH:
For which books of the OT have the Propositional Bible Outlines been completed?

  1. Genesis
  2. Exodus
  3. Leviticus
  4. Numbers
  5. Ruth
  6. Esther
  7. Obadiah
  8. Jonah

JH:
Is there a timeline for the remainder?

No official timeline, but we plan to release regular updates—maybe in conjunction with each release—until they're finished.

Posts 1749
Nathan Parker | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 6 2015 5:27 PM

Phil Gons:

Nathan Parker:

Will the books.Logos.com subscription be folded into this?

We thought about that, but we wanted to make sure it didn't overlap with Logos 6 base packages initially. It's an ideal kind of thing to include. It's likely that it will get added to Now eventually.

Nathan Parker:
How about future updates to FSB?

No plans for FSB, since it's still free.

Sounds good. We L6 base package owners are set for now, but about the time it "expires", adding it to Logos Now would be a great way to continue accessing it.

Sounds good about FSB still being free for now. I'll encourage more people to signup for Faithlife and use it.

Sounds good about the Chrome app as well. I'll be looking for it.

I would love to see this included in Logos Now (although the subscription price would probably have to go up). :-)

https://community.logos.com/forums/p/72501/505284.aspx#505284

Nathan Parker

President/CEO

Mallard Computer, Inc.

Posts 588
Rayner | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 6 2015 5:27 PM

I will really need to think about subscribing to Logos Now.  

I don't think I have any need for additional tools, I don't mind waiting for the release of new features via Logos 7 and I'm happy with the cost of material (especially in the Sales that aren't March Madness).

However...  I really really want access to the new web app.  I've been eagerly awaiting an update to Biblia because I'd like to be able to access my notes from a desktop computer that doesn't have Logos installed on it.  It would be very handy to have some kind of preview of the new (beta) app, or for somebody who has started paying for Logos Now to let us all know what features it contains.

I think I will wait until the annual $89 subscription is announced, as that will reduce the fee to $7.41 per month, which is quite small.  On the other hand, I've a payment plan to pay off a pretty hefty base package (plus additional commentaries) which means my monthly payments are really high as things stand.  And then there's that list of pre-pubs and community priced things that haven't yet reached pre-pub...

The one thing that would make me sign up to Logos Now immediately (and, indeed, to even pay a higher subscription) would be were it to offer a fuller range of completely up to date academic journals.  Just saying. Big Smile  

Posts 740
Sean | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 6 2015 5:32 PM

$9 a month for new cool features in Logos doesn't seem much at all, and I'm speaking as a poor missionary.

My question as a systematic theologian is: does it have any features that will benefit me? As it is I don't use 90% of the search & Bible study features I've gotten from L4-6, and I don't particularly feel the need for more. What I do use are the many specific resources related to my field. Does Logos Now have anything to offer in that direction, or will it in the future?

Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing users' experiences and feedback about this service over the coming months.

L2 Scholar's Library | Bib. Lang. Sup. | L4 Min. X-Grade | L5 Starter | L5 Min. X-Grade | L6 Reformed Gold | L6 Verbum Basic

XL Theology Bundle | Logos Now Subscriber | L7 Methodist Bronze | Theologian & Pastor

Posts 11757
Forum MVP
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 6 2015 5:48 PM

JH:

Bruce Dunning:

Logos Now just gives us early access to the features which will be available for ownership at a later time with a new version.

That's not exactly what Phil said. He said it is "likely that some" of the Now features may make it into the desktop version, but nothing has been decided.

He also said that "Features that are code only and have no content dependencies will eventually be made part of the free core engine". The Logos Now page makes a distinction between "Features" and other things like datasets, media and so on. The features will make it into the standard Logos, the datasets and media may do so. (And, if I had to guess, I'd say the datasets will make it into L7 base packages, but the media may not, as it's served online.)

Posts 11757
Forum MVP
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 6 2015 5:49 PM

Into Grace:
A required monthly fee to have the latest robust software from Logos may backfire and alienate many.

Just to be clear, Phil has said:

Phil Gons:
Logos 6 users will continue to receive free updates to their software: bug fixes, performance enhancements, improvements to existing features, and updates to their resources, datasets, media collections, and interactives. Logos Now subscribers, in addition to these things, will receive access to a variety of new categories of ever-growing content—datasets, media collections, and interactives—as well as early access to new features.

In other words, you don't have to pay a monthly fee to have the latest robust software. All users will continue to get free software updates.

Posts 31
Mark Davis | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 6 2015 5:56 PM

Mark Smith:

Into Grace:
A required monthly fee to have the latest robust software from Logos may backfire and alienate many.

The alternative is 'wait 2-3 years for the next major release of the software' to have the most robust software. There wasn't another option as far as I know.

What I see is Faithlife offering to let us get early use of tools and data sets as they are developed. They benefit by having a more level income stream that helps them keep developing tools and data, and users get the benefit of not waiting 2-3 years to use it. It remains to be seen if users will see the value and want to part with the money to get the benefit offered for their side of the transaction.

Mark,

while this response makes the most sense to me financially speaking from everything I've read about Logos Now online so far, my problem is that we're paying about $200-$300 every 2-3 years to get the latest, cool Logos functionality, media, etc.; yet after that 2-3 years we're still going to have to pay the upgrade fee if we want some of that functionality and those resources to become a permanent part of our Logos/Faithlife library.

I love my Logos Bible Software and have always been a huge proponent of it.  But the only way that paying for this makes sense to me, is if the Web App remained a permanent and free part of it, having access to my full Logos library of resources, and with much of the desktop app's functionality (which it currently does not appear to have).  I can see paying 9 bucks (seriously guys, who are we fooling with $8.99/mo) a month for web access to a decent portion of my desktop software's functionality and resources.  I would look at the "early access" stuff as bonus material.

So maybe Now should be marked more as an incredible new web app. that can do much of what your desktop software can do with access to your entire Logos library instead (with a bonus of all the cool new functionality and resources).  Pitch that and I think there may be more bites.  Faithlife already gives so much awesome stuff with the desktop version that I would have no problem seeing them want to charge for a web app that can do most of what my desktop app can do and I would be happy to pay for it (both to have the functionality and to see Faithlife have a more consistent revenue stream).

Posts 1432
Beloved | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 6 2015 6:02 PM

I know the mantra of the day is "to be or not to be." But let's just say "be" is a given. My question is with all this new functionality is there a "value" oriented affordable way of receiving training to accommodate these features.

The current high priced method needs to change imho. And the release pace needs to match the release pace of the new features. 

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.

Posts 1698
Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 6 2015 6:06 PM

Bob Pritchett:
Another user -- the type who uses Pandora or Spotify instead of buying albums, who watches Netflix instead of buying DVDs, and who uses Google Docs instead of Microsoft Word -- wants everything online, in the cloud, accessible with a simple log-in from whatever device they happen to be using.

Here's the problem with that analogy: I can get the same thing in a "to own" format as in a "to rent" format for all of the examples you listed. CDs, DVDs, etc. -or- streaming. With Logos Now, that is not true. I would happily pay to own several of the new functional features / datasets in Logos Now, but that is not an option.

Here is a functional question: If I purchase a Logos Now subscription and want to use one of the subscription-only features, can I do so if I am not on the internet and/or my internet connection is down? Correspondingly do those features require internet connectivity for licensing (every time they're used), for actual functionality (i.e. the function resides in the cloud), or both?

Thanks,

Donnie

Posts 8501
Forum MVP
Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 6 2015 6:07 PM

Mark Davis:
while this response makes the most sense to me financially speaking from everything I've read about Logos Now online so far, my problem is that we're paying about $200-$300 every 2-3 years to get the latest, cool Logos functionality, media, etc.; yet after that 2-3 years we're still going to have to pay the upgrade fee if we want some of that functionality and those resources to become a permanent part of our Logos/Faithlife library.

I hear you and I think it is a very legitimate concern. I am a supporter of having a portion of what I spend on Logos NOW go toward the upgrade cost of the next version. I know Faithlife is thinking about this, but it would be helpful if they would get specific and make a commitment.

Mark Davis:
So maybe Now should be marked more as an incredible new web app. that can do much of what your desktop software can do with access to your entire Logos library instead (with a bonus of all the cool new functionality and resources).

From what Bob said they are a long way from having a web app that is on a par with the desktop app. I think if they had that it would 'sell' very well as a rental tool either along with some rental content or as an adjunct to owned resources.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 690
JRS | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 6 2015 6:14 PM
I am going to try it out ... it all sounds like a great deal for nine bucks per month. I envision my most valued/go-to/reference type works as my download library and the occasional-use resources as cloud based. Works for me. Plus, I am sure that if enough people sign up, it will have the very beneficial effect of smoothing out the revenue flow for FaithLife (which will mean better service and better development of products for end users).

How blessed is the one whom Thou dost choose, and bring near to Thee(Psa 65:4a)

Posts 8501
Forum MVP
Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 6 2015 6:16 PM

Donnie Hale:
Here is a functional question: If I purchase a Logos Now subscription and want to use one of the subscription-only features, can I do so if I am not on the internet and/or my internet connection is down?

Donnie,

Of the following:

What does the first release include?

  1. Old Testament Propositional Bible Outlines (dataset)
  2. Greek Grammatical Constructions (dataset)
  3. Commandments of the Law (interactive)
  4. Visual Copy Templates (media)
  5. Author Slide Templates (media)
  6. Logos Stock Images, vol. 2 (media)
  7. Media Browser (tool)
  8. Concordance (tool)
  9. Access to the beta of the Logos web app

numbers 1-3 and 8 work offline. Numbers 4-7 are online only. Obviously number 9 is online only.

I don't know how Faithlife handles the licenses. I do know I can go offline and access 1-3 and 8.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 1612
Randy W. Sims | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 6 2015 6:24 PM

What's the difference between Logos Now & Verbum Now? Will they diverge?

How does the release of any new software features interact with the open betas?

I'm still not clear on the path to ownership for those datasets that are not online only...

I appreciate the discussion. Some of it is becoming clearer.

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Forum MVP
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 6 2015 6:32 PM

Donnie Hale:
Here's the problem with that analogy: I can get the same thing in a "to own" format as in a "to rent" format for all of the examples you listed. CDs, DVDs, etc. -or- streaming. With Logos Now, that is not true. I would happily pay to own several of the new functional features / datasets in Logos Now, but that is not an option.

That's not quite true. There are a few original programmes that were initially only available to stream via Netflix or Amazon Prime, such as Orange is the New Black, Arrested Development, and House of Cards.

But, generally, you're right — and I would also much prefer that the new datasets were available to purchase. (Although, truthfully, I probably wouldn't purchase them, but I'd feel better knowing that I could Smile).

Posts 739
John Goodman | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 6 2015 6:35 PM

I totally don't understand this. So far I always thought that I was paying for content not apps. I've been really keen to see more of the logos features available online - call it a website or a web app I'm not sure why it is free to download and use an iPad app or the desktop app but $8.99 a month to get the same online.

If the new content were available to purchase as part of a base package I'd buy the content but I don't like the idea of not owning stuff which I'm paying for. I'm especially nervous about the idea of renting access to the library I purchased in the past even if it is on a new platform. I've been very pleased to see how quickly new platforms like Android were supported. I'm totally cool with the idea of paying for content but not so much the web app at least not on the basis that when I stop paying I loose access.

Please consider bundling the web app with a base package on the same terms as the desktop app ie. continued access.

The distinction between paying for content and trusting that the app will always be free is a very appealing part of logos in comparison to competitors.

גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

Posts 8501
Forum MVP
Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 6 2015 6:38 PM

Randy W. Sims:
How does the release of any new software features interact with the open betas?

The new data and features will not be part of the normal beta process AFAIK. The routine betas for Logos 6 will continue to test improvements to the existing program and any enhancements Faithlife has planned for Logos 6 already.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 1432
Beloved | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 6 2015 6:39 PM

John Goodman:
The distinction between paying for content and trusting that the app will always be free is a very appealing part of logos in comparison to competitors.
 

Yes

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.

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