New Feature: Lemma in Passage (Dataset)

This would be nice if this worked for my collection of Greek Lexicons.   

Rick Brannan (Faithlife) said:

The only other thing I can think of offhand is to ask if you have BWS filtered down to a particular passage range? Where John's screen capture has "All Passages", does yours have that as well? Or is it filtered down to a particular passage range?

Also: In addition to Logos Now, which Logos 6 package do you have? Or which commentaries do you own that you expect to show there?

I restarted Logos several times last night and no luck. This morning, after a fresh reboot, it is now working. Strange, but glad to have it working now. (BTW, it is a very nice feature to have...)

Rick Brannan (Faithlife) said:

NB.Mick said:

JH said:

I am currently reading through NA27 (Interlinear w/ GRAMCORD). When I right click on a Greek word and select the lemma from the drop down, then select BWS, it never returns results for Lemma in Passage. If I repeat this process from the ESV, it works correctly.

Maybe only Logos Morphology works, and GRAMCORD etc. alternatives don't

This is the case at present. No word (yet) on ability to support lemmas from other morphologies.

I don't quite understand the issue. The lemma is the same whether I type it in manually, choose it from the underlying text of the ESV, or populate it from the NA27. Isn't BWS running from the lemma that is displayed in the input box at the upper left of the tool? Why does the NA27 (without the interlinear) work with BWS, but not with the interlinear. What am I missing?

NB.Mick said:

Maybe I'm just too stupid for this, but how would your algorithm know from a word in say a NICNT commentary tagged as language 'Translit' wether it was a transliteration for Greek or Hebrew? Or is it a simple lookup in a table pointing to in your own lemma database? Then you could easily link agape to the lemma αγαπη, but there's nothing that precludes you from linking both chesed and hesed (and even checed [Vine's]) to חֶסֶד 

At the moment, Rick's algorithm doesn't attempt to decode transliteration, so your question is hypothetical.

The answer would depend on which direction this works in. Does the algorithm look for words/lemmas in the original text, then search for those words/lemmas in the commentaries? Or does the algorithm attempt to analyse Greek/Hebrew words in the commentaries, and then find those in the original text? You're assuming the latter (which I think would require fewer iterations and therefore be quicker), but the former might be both simpler and more accurate, particularly for transliteration.

If you were using the latter method, you'd have to use fuzzy logic. In other words, you'd use a series of clues as to whether the transliteration referred to Greek, Hebrew, or something else, and compute a probability, rather than necessarily a certainty. Those clues would probably include:

• The milestone in which they appear (NT/OT or something else).
• The characters used in the transliteration (many characters only appear in Hebrew transliteration, for example).

If you were using the former method, you'd probably have a series of transliteration rules programmed into the algorithm, then search for words/lemmas from the original text, using each transliteration rule in turn. After a few attempts, it would probably be fairly easy to determine which rules a particular resource was using (or flag it for manual review if it wasn't possible), which would then speed up the process for the remainder of the resource.

If your point is that all this would be easier if Logos' markup didn't use "translit" as a language, but used "translit-hebrew", and "translit-greek", then of course you are right. But as I've said elsewhere, I fear it's too late for that. (And that's not the main issue, as Rick notes above.)

Mark Barnes said:

I've noticed several volumes seem to be missing from the "Lemma in Passage" tool, despite having many references to the Greek text.

This should be fixed in 6.9 Beta 4. 

Fixed bug that caused conversion between morphological analysis to not be supported in Lemma in Passage.

Rick Brannan (Faithlife) said:

Several of the volumes you mention above discuss Greek, but do it in transliteration, not Greek characters. The whole of NICNT uses transliteration; surprisingly (to me) so does much of the Anchor Yale series.

Transliteration is a tough nut to crack (especially Hebrew). Not saying it'll never happen, but it didn't make the first cut of the tool.

On which volumes get included, basically, everything classed as a commentary that has a string in Greek or Hebrew within a Bible milestone is intended. Not saying we haven't possibly missed volumes, but that's the goal.

I'm not coming up with any good ideas for a useful work-around to take me from my Bible Word Study Guide for an OL word into a scholarly commentary that uses only transliterated text.  (And as Rick B suggests, I'm surprised at how many are the ones that I really want to start with, when I'm ready to turn to commentaries.)

Perhaps one of our programming-savvy folks has come up with some streamlined combination of an OL Bible Word Study Guide plus some other Logos feature, that is the functional equivalent of a "Lemma in Passage" section for these commentaries?

Here are the crazy work-arounds I can imagine, and both are cumbersome:

Crazy and Cumbersome Method A:

First step:  I go back to my Bible, R-click on my Hebrew or Greek lemma, "Search -> this resource," and turn the Search results into a Passage List.

[Somewhere under the hood of the Bible Word Study Guide, there must be the equivalent of such a Passage List, that generates that great little graphic, showing where each occurrence appears by Bible book.  But I don't see a way to get to that list from within the Guide.  Am I overlooking something?]

Next step:  if

(1) I have tagged all my scholarly commentaries that don't use the Hebrew or Greek script, and

(2) I have created a streamlined, one-section Passage Guide, with only a single "Commentaries" section (for a Collection of those transliteration-only commentaries),

then I create that PG by R-clicking on the first reference in the Passage List.

Next step:  from my one-section PG, I click through to each commentary, and scan through it hoping to find my word.

And then . . . do the same for each reference in my Passage List--R-click to create PG, click through on each commentary, and scan for my word.

But whoa!, that's a lot of windows!  And a whole lot of clicking.  I'm definitely going to get lost and sidetracked very easily.

Crazy and Cumbersome Method B:

Is there a way to turn the Passage List into a single search string of Bible references?

If so, then this method B isn't quite so cumbersome.

If not, then I have to start by typing that string of references as the query for a Basic Search of my Collection of transliteration-only scholarly commentaries.

Then I sort the Search Results by resource, eyeball each one to find all the sections of each commentary that might conceivably talk about my OL word, and then click and scan for my word.  At least this way, I'm working from a single pane of results, and a single pane for each commentary, so I have a fighting chance of keeping track of where I am and what I'm doing.

Any other suggestions?

Thank you for the update, Mr. Data Wrangler!  [8-|]