TIP of the day: Operational difference between BHS SESB & BHS SESB Core

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Dec 30 2015 2:08 AM

For those of us not truly familiar with the BHS editions (justifiably when we don't read Hebrew) these two resources can be confusing. While there Information Panel shows little difference except for the presence of a gloss. However, the tagging implied by the Context Menu clearly distinguishes them.

SESB Core Version:

BHS SESB 2.0

The Reading List "Logos/Verbum dataset and visualization information" has links to web articles on how to use the BHS.

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 30 2015 2:58 AM

Thanks for digging that out, I have updated the Reading List of Hebrew bible text resources in Logos accordingly, assuming the missing lemma etc in the right click as proof for no morphological tagging at all. Or will inline search give a morph-line nevertheless, or info shows up in that popup on the page bottom? 

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Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 30 2015 3:22 AM

This is what I get when I try to seek the logos/verbum dataset list:

Same thing for Hebrew bible text resources (though the link works as a charm). What's up with reading lists searching?

Also, MJ, it is not clear from your post whether the "core" version is another one yet from the duplicate "deprecated" version. I have two SESB BHS files and I assume that one is deprecated (though it has no bearing on my work so I don't really care right now). My info panels do not identify either as "core version". Can you clarify whether your post is about a third SESB BHS yet?

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 30 2015 3:45 AM

Francis,

the search function for reading lists is somewhat broken, especially for multi-word searches. Try using a string/phrase instead.

The "core version" is not one of the SESB 2 versions you are talking about, but another version, (partly or fully) without morphology.  

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Whyndell Grizzard | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 30 2015 3:55 AM

I have two versions:

LLS:BHSSESB2
2006-12-16T00:22:51Z
BHSSESB2.lbxlls (which looks like the latest version)

and

LLS:1.0.204
2009-03-12T22:17:45Z
BHSSESB.lbxlls

Posts 2057
GaoLu | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 30 2015 3:57 AM

So what is this?  Same results as SESB 2.0?  Except Figure of Speech?   

LLS:WIVUMORPH
2012-10-12T01:14:41Z
WIVUMORPH.logos4

[EDIT:  Found this comparing BHS WIVU and BHS SESB...and now BHS SESB 2.0]

One good way to buy it would be HERE.

Also Logos has this:  

Wonneberger, R. (1990). Understanding BHS: a manual for the users of Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia (2nd rev. ed., Vol. 8). Roma: Pontificio Istituto Biblico.

Hmmmmmm.  I guess something is different:

Posts 468
BKMitchell | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 30 2015 4:11 AM

In addition to what has already been said here is a little bit more info on the differences between the Hebrew Bibles in your libraries

Vincent Setterholm:

This is the SESB version to keep:

LLS:1.0.204  2009-03-12T22:17:45Z BHSSESB.lbxlls

hide the other:

LLS:BHSSESB2 2006-12-16T00:22:51Z BHSSESB2.lbxlls

I still hold some hope that someday we might be able to update BHS/WIVU, particularly since it is still in the base packages - if you hide it, you'll never see if it gets updated. I just wouldn't use that one, personally, in its present state, when there are more up to date options. The main structural difference between BHS/WIVU and BHS SESB is that the pronominal suffixes are split into separate segments in our snapshot edition. More on this in the last paragraph.

All the old Westminster editions with the file names BHSWTSxx can be hidden, the BHW replaces all of them.

Personally, I'd love it if everyone used LHB as their go-to Hebrew Bible, because I'd like to gather as much feedback on that edition as possible, since that's the one we can improve in house. There's another, perhaps more compelling, reason to do with pronominal suffixes (see below). In terms of searching, one major feature LHB currently has that BHW does not is searching on roots (in addition to lemmas), though BHW tags some morph features that LHB does not (like more particular tagging of the volitives for form vs. function). LHB has a slightly fuller treatment of Kethiv-Qere in that it includes the hybrid form with the consonants of the K and the vowels of the Q. (That was something we added to one older edition of the Westminster database, but probably shouldn't have - it wasn't part of their data and they got typo reports for a couple of my mistakes!)

BHW and BHS SESB currently treat pronominal suffixes in the same 'segment' as the word they are attached to, and then have the suffix information tacked on to the end of the morph code. While LHB, AFAT and BHS/WIVU all split the pronominal suffixes out into separate segments. So if you're using only BHS SESB or BHW, you're going to miss out on some of our in-house data work that involves hanging data on individual segments. For example, we've done work disambiguating pronouns by tagging their referent (e.g. where 'him' or 'his' = Moses in some particular instance). You'll miss out on some of that context-sensitive information that comes not from the Hebrew Bible itself, but from our in-house ancillary databases, when you're working with databases that segment the text very differently than the LHB and AFAT. And this, then, is also a reason why one might keep BHS/WIVU around even if one had BHS/SESB - assuming BHS/WIVU gets an update at some point.

חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 30 2015 6:02 AM

Whyndell Grizzard:

I have two versions:

LLS:BHSSESB2
2006-12-16T00:22:51Z
BHSSESB2.lbxlls (which looks like the latest version)

and

LLS:1.0.204
2009-03-12T22:17:45Z
BHSSESB.lbxlls

Nope. Despite the filename, both are BHS SESB 2.0 versions, and the date of last update gives the latest version: LLS 1.0.204

Logos (= Vincent Setterholm and Bradley Grainger as well) advises to hide the 2006-changed BHS SESB 2.0 or at least tag it "deprecated" - it won't be updated. The one MJ posted about is - as can be clearly seen in her screenshot - still another: LLS:BHSSESBNM ('nm' probably stands for 'no morphology') and the surface text of all three of them is based on the 5th corrected edition (of BHS) prepared by A. Schenker 1997.

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

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