Logos Now and Logos 7

Mark said:

What I would like clarified:  If I have Logos Now, and I choose to buy Logos 7 base package, will have get a discount?  This has been my understanding.  Logos Now gives you access to Logos 7 features now before Logos 7 is available.  We pay for that access.  And we keep it as long as we have Logos Now.  But after Logos 7 comes out, we have the option of purchasing a base package at a discounted price and we would permanently have Logos 7 features.  We still can continue Logos Now subscription to receive Logos 8 features before Logos 8 comes out.  This has been my understanding.  Is it correct?    

That's not what Phil is saying.

He's saying that there will be two configurations of Logos 7:

1. Full Logos 7
2. Books-only Logos 7 (i.e. without Logos Now datasets and features)

If you buy the "books-only" Logos 7 and have an active Logos Now subscription, you'll get the same functionality as full Logos 7 — but you'll have to keep on paying your subscription. Presumably if you later cancelled your subscription but wanted to retain most of the functionality, you could purchase full Logos 7 on dynamic pricing.

In other words, Logos Now users won't get a discount on Logos 7. Instead, they'll be able to purchase a cheaper version of Logos 7 because they won't need all the features and datasets.

Mark said:

If my last package was Logos 6 and now I want to purchase, say, Logos 10 base package, would it have been better to never have had Logos Now?

Having had Logos Now in the past is of no consequence when you purchase a base package. What's important is whether you're willing to commit to Logos Now in the future.

In other words, Logos 7 and later will be available as a purchase option (without Logos Now), and as a part-purchase/part-rental option (with Logos Now).

Just so I understand.

When is L7 to be released?

Is this a free platform or does it require an upgrade to L7 Gold.

Maybe direct me to link that explains all this.

mm.

Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:

Logos 7 will most likely be available in two different ways: full ownership (effectively like Logos 6 is today) and partial ownership (library ownership + Now subscription).

Here's what the two options would look like for Logos 7 Gold:

1. Full ownership: purchase and own the Logos 7 Gold base package, which is made up of Logos 7 Gold library (the books) and the Logos 7 Core software (the features, datasets, interactives, etc.).
2. Library ownership / software subscription: purchase and own the Logos 7 Gold library (the books) and subscribe (or continue to subscribe) to Logos Now (the features, datasets, interactives, etc.).

I'm very pleased to hear this.  This approach would fully address my concerns as someone who, for a variety of reasons, prefers the ownership approach.

I think worrying about Logos Now vs. Logos 7 pricing is a red herring for most users in these forums.  The greater concern to me is that continued price inflation of books.  I ran a quick little price check on previous purchases and guesstimate that resources tend to increase 6-8% in price each year.  It's really a shame--my purchases circa 2010 seem to be much more competitive with conventional books at the time, and now, many of them cost 40ish% more...for nothing!  Everyone keeps telling me that FL needs the money to keep investing in new technology, but isn't that why we purchase Logos Now and Logos 7?

I agree!  That's my point.  But I've been told more than once on these forums that I should be happy to pay for ever-increasing book costs because it funds the engine.  I don't know if they're simply trying to be apologists for FL, but at some point, the cost of "maintaining" digital content can't be going up 6-8% year.  

That's where I struggle with FL.  I run my own business!  It's similar to FL in that it's a monopoly of sorts with a worldwide customer base.  In a sense, there's no substitute for either of our services.  But I haven't raised any core prices in probably 3-4 years simply because I know how tight everyone's budget is.  

With FL, whose target markets are mostly churches and pastors and those training for such ministry, I think there should be a bit more empathy.  I'm all for capitalism and profitability, but at some point, you also realize that there's a greater purpose you're serving, and you have to lay off the cutthroat, profit-maximizing nature to some degree.  Just because you CAN charge something doesn't mean that you SHOULD.  Offering a limited-time March Madness sale in one hand doesn't make up for the long-term price increases in the other.

Sorry for venting.  I love the product, but I also think they're damaging their brand with their uncompetitive pricing.

Tyson Heyn said:

I went through my purchase records and made a good-faith effort to remove pre-pubs.

I'm not sure your figures are accurate. They're skewed because you probably bought some resources on sales. I therefore used archive.org to check historic prices.

According to that site, Select Works of John MacArthur. was $22.38 in 2015, not $16.49. And the Brian Williams Bible Study Collection you had at the pre-pub price. It's been $119.95 since at least August 2011.

When I checked some of my own, I found (for example), that the Treasury of David has been $59.95 since at least 2010 (it's now $59.99). The only other one I checked was An Introduction to the Old Testament. There the pricing was $38 through 2011 and 2012, before dropping to $34.95 around 2013 (it's $34.99 now).

So part from *.95 products becoming *.99 products I'm not at all sure there's evidence for widespread price increases. The exception might be Zondervan titles. At least I think it was Zondervan. They put up their Logos prices a year or two ago, by quite a jump.

Yes a flow chart would be great, since I own Master Collection and almost all the others, and subscribe to Now, looking at Professional Cloud- I will be looking for some guidance in looking at upgraging or not, or just L7 engine.

dash .... it would not matter Logos' price inflation. You're at a Cadallac dealership.  Free coffee and oil changes (once a month).  Christianity is a market and you're part of it. Money here ... money there. They sell Cadallacs. And mind you, not sharable Cadallacs. One Cadallac for each Christian.

Now, back to the OP:

I've thoroughly enjoyed Logos Now. Vicariously. It's taught me what I'm not missing. For Logos4-6, I dutifully crossgraded ... how could I not???? So risky. But Logos Now allows me to confirm how many times I'll never need 'that' feature.  Truthfully. Get the core, buy some books, enjoy.

-- said:

I think worrying about Logos Now vs. Logos 7 pricing is a red herring for most users in these forums.  The greater concern to me is that continued price inflation of books.  I ran a quick little price check on previous purchases and guesstimate that resources tend to increase 6-8% in price each year.  It's really a shame--my purchases circa 2010 seem to be much more competitive with conventional books at the time, and now, many of them cost 40ish% more...for nothing!  Everyone keeps telling me that FL needs the money to keep investing in new technology, but isn't that why we purchase Logos Now and Logos 7?

I don't think that is being entirely fair to Logos. The first thing that comes to mind is that back in Libronix days, many publishers were making their own CD's or were paying Logos the cost up front to make them for them. For instance Nelson, Fortress Press, Galaxie Softwarem,  Concordia, Friends of Israel, Van Till CD, The E4 Group, and there were many others. Now Logos makes all resources in house for better quality control, and the ability to update them when needed. 

Back then, publishers weren't charging as high of a percentage royalty rates, so book prices were cheaper. Now some of our major Christian book publishers are charging Logos as much as 40% of book list price for the rights to publish their titles in Logos. Like Bob P said, if we want front list titles we will have to pay higher prices for them. Back list titles of course are much cheaper. I think the days of publishers letting go of high demand titles for low royalty rates is just about over. They too need to survive the new digital age that is changing the publishing world.

-- said:

It's disappointing to see bronze-starred bullies.  In all seriousness, I'm praying for you.

All that happened is that you made some claims about Logos' price increase which other people weren't sure were accurate ("pricing tends to increase 6-8% each year", emphasis added). One person politely asked you to give some more detail, and someone else (me!) took the trouble to check some of the figures, and politely posted what they found. I don't understand how that can be construed as bullying.

All good points,  Alabama. We will just have to wait and see what Faitife decides to do!

Though some companies have left the Bible related software market, there are still many choices that offer overlapping products. It may be nice to have all of ones resources in a single software environment, but I have no problem working with multiple operating systems, multiple desktops, and multiple software products. But then, I must admit that I have been using computers since the mid 1960's. I can understand how one not so interested in technology would feel trapped into a single software ecosystem. I can also understand how one could claim that their wish is to simply use the computer as a tool and not be bothered by the technical aspects of the computer and its use. These are the same issues discussed in the late 1970's and early 1980's as personal computers came onto the scene. Believe it or not, it is exceedingly simpler today than previous decades and there are still many options for systems, tools, and data sources. I know that the present technology still falls exceedingly short of the promise of ubiquitous ease of use and function. These computer systems  are not toasters, nor even cars. They still require patience and learned skills! There is not a monopoly directing the market, but alternate choices may require that we leave our comfort zone and learn a new approach to doing things. It might even be, as Spock would say, "fascinating." Ah, the Star Trek style computer--now that is a toaster! Oh, even starship captains used and enjoyed a 'bound organizations of knowledge' at times. 

Shalom

I suspect JoshRI is correct ... software like Logos, Accordance, and Bibleworks have their roots in the high-end of data 'erector sets'. And the mirror user base insists that is the cost of admission.  The more I know, the more you should know.

But I'd argue that there's been little advancement in the tinkering ... just more descriptives stacked on earlier descriptives. And the UI's are Jobs wanna-be's that ignore the point ... ease of use.

Need a modern day Bob Pritchett to set the new standard of Bible study.

OT The FBI now wants people to make sure their cars are updated. Who are they kidding.

@ Thinking you should check out this post for your answer.

https://community.logos.com/forums/t/128822.aspx 

Well if subscribing gives me features and a cheaper book library it kind of helps so some of us can save to purchase full ownership later on. Anyway, I have a week to think about it. Meanwhile, let me repost here to see if I can get an answer. The other thread is really crowded now:

So, to summarize: I become a Logos Now member now and pretty much I start using Logos 7's features now (along with the features I already own from L6), the only thing I don't get yet is the new books that come in a Base Package, which I would have to purchase if I want those - Is that correct?

Next: If I don't become a member and just upgrade to L7 when it comes out, I will get L7's new features plus new books, but will lose L6's features since L7's features will replace them - is that accurate?

Finally, but if I want both L6's and L7's features, then I must become a member - is this right?

Thanks!

DAL

Mark Barnes said:

Your first assumption is correct. If you have Logos Now, you won't get the new books that come with Logos 7 base packages, but you will have the Logos 7 features.

But your second assumption is mostly wrong. You won't lose access to Logos 6 features when Logos 7 comes out. Although some features have changed from one version to another (e.g Maps from L4/5 to L6), users kept the licences and could still access the maps (albeit in a different way). On other occasions people who bought a licence in L4 benefitted from improvements to that dataset in L5 and L6 (e.g. recerse underline are we're upgraded to include roots). However, I think that is less likely in L7. There have been only a tiny handful of examples of people losing features after an upgrade, and almost all of those were from L3 to L4. 

Thanks Mark! Running Phil's hypothetical numbers, subscribing now and purchasing full ownership later would still be cheaper about $50 bucks (maybe a little more) than if I just waited to upgrade when L7 debuts.  I think I'm becoming interested in this new membership option. Friday might just be the day I buy into this new cool offer. I guess is not for everyone, but is still good nonetheless 🤘👌👍 Thanks FL and Mark for the clarification. I guess if you missed something, Phil or others can pitch in.

DAL