Logos Now and Logos 7

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This post has 56 Replies | 13 Followers

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Mark | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Mar 18 2016 1:55 PM

Rather than see a complete hijack of Phil Gon's thread about journals, I would like Phil to clarify further his remarks found on the journal thread.

There Phil wrote:

Phil Gons (Faithlife): You get access to the content included in Logos Now only as long as you continue to subscribe. When Logos 7 comes out, you'll already have access to the features of Logos 7, since they're all included in Logos Now, and you'll be able to get a Logos 7 book-only library instead of buying a Logos 7 base package (which will include all of the features, datasets, interactives, etc., which you already have access to with your Now subscription). The library will cost quite a bit less than the full base package, so you'll get a discounted price from that perspective.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             What I would like clarified:  If I have Logos Now, and I choose to buy Logos 7 base package, will have get a discount?  This has been my understanding.  Logos Now gives you access to Logos 7 features now before Logos 7 is available.  We pay for that access.  And we keep it as long as we have Logos Now.  But after Logos 7 comes out, we have the option of purchasing a base package at a discounted price and we would permanently have Logos 7 features.  We still can continue Logos Now subscription to receive Logos 8 features before Logos 8 comes out.  This has been my understanding.  Is it correct?                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  What if we keep Logos Now after Logos 7 comes out and we do not purchase a base package?  What if months later we chose to purchase a package? Will we get a discount since we had Logos Now subscription? I am asking because I also understand that Logos Now features are not always available offline.  Is that correct?  I am also asking because what if I have Logos Now for several years, and then I chose for various reasons to purchase the latest package.  If my last package was Logos 6 and now I want to purchase, say, Logos 10 base package, would it have been better to never have had Logos Now? Clarity is needed or else I have to rethink whether it is economical to have Logos Now.
Posts 2174
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 18 2016 2:00 PM

I have no idea why the paragraphs did not show on the OP

Posts 13417
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 18 2016 2:56 PM

Mark:
What I would like clarified:  If I have Logos Now, and I choose to buy Logos 7 base package, will have get a discount?  This has been my understanding.  Logos Now gives you access to Logos 7 features now before Logos 7 is available.  We pay for that access.  And we keep it as long as we have Logos Now.  But after Logos 7 comes out, we have the option of purchasing a base package at a discounted price and we would permanently have Logos 7 features.  We still can continue Logos Now subscription to receive Logos 8 features before Logos 8 comes out.  This has been my understanding.  Is it correct?    

That's not what Phil is saying.

He's saying that there will be two configurations of Logos 7:

  1. Full Logos 7
  2. Books-only Logos 7 (i.e. without Logos Now datasets and features)

If you buy the "books-only" Logos 7 and have an active Logos Now subscription, you'll get the same functionality as full Logos 7 — but you'll have to keep on paying your subscription. Presumably if you later cancelled your subscription but wanted to retain most of the functionality, you could purchase full Logos 7 on dynamic pricing.

In other words, Logos Now users won't get a discount on Logos 7. Instead, they'll be able to purchase a cheaper version of Logos 7 because they won't need all the features and datasets.

Mark:
If my last package was Logos 6 and now I want to purchase, say, Logos 10 base package, would it have been better to never have had Logos Now?

Having had Logos Now in the past is of no consequence when you purchase a base package. What's important is whether you're willing to commit to Logos Now in the future.

In other words, Logos 7 and later will be available as a purchase option (without Logos Now), and as a part-purchase/part-rental option (with Logos Now).

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 18 2016 3:36 PM

Mark:

I have no idea why the paragraphs did not show on the OP

are you on a Mac? about 10 percent of the time the formatting pallet doesn't load for me. When that happens, paragraph breaks are ignored. Sometimes posting and reopening will bring the pallet back... But not always. Afaik, this is a Mac only issue. 

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Posts 2174
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 18 2016 3:50 PM

alabama24:
are you on a Mac?

No, on Windows.  This has not happened before, but after many edits, I got is basically corrected

Posts 2174
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 18 2016 3:55 PM

Mark Barnes:

That's not what Phil is saying.

He's saying that there will be two configurations of Logos 7:

  1. Full Logos 7
  2. Books-only Logos 7 (i.e. without Logos Now datasets and features)

Thanks Mark.  Unfortunately, that was not my understanding.  I understood that Logos Now meant getting features before Logos 7, and then when Logos 7 comes out, I can purchase a full logos 7 base package with dynamic pricing since I had been paying for Logos Now for x amounts of months. I saw it more as a way to ease the price tag once the full version came out.  I guess I was wrong.

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Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 18 2016 4:00 PM

Mark has it right.

Logos 7 will most likely be available in two different ways: full ownership (effectively like Logos 6 is today) and partial ownership (library ownership + Now subscription).

Here's what the two options would look like for Logos 7 Gold:

  1. Full ownership: purchase and own the Logos 7 Gold base package, which is made up of Logos 7 Gold library (the books) and the Logos 7 Core software (the features, datasets, interactives, etc.).
  2. Library ownership / software subscription: purchase and own the Logos 7 Gold library (the books) and subscribe (or continue to subscribe) to Logos Now (the features, datasets, interactives, etc.).

Putting some (made up) numbers to it, as a Logos 6 Gold owner you'd pay $500 to upgrade to the full Logos 7 Gold base package and own all of the new books as well as the features, datasets, interactives, etc.

A Logos 6 Gold owner who has a Logos Now subscription you'd pay only $250 to buy full ownership of the Logos 7 Gold library. You won't need to buy the Logos 7 Core, since you already have access to all of that (and more) with your Logos Now subscription. (If you later decide that Logos Now isn't for you, you'd be able to purchase the Logos 7 Core or another full Logos 7 base package to regain access to the Logos 7 features.)

Of course, it's possible that we could do something extra special for Logos Now subscribers, like being the first to learn about Logos 7 or getting a special offer or an extra discount or a free bonus gift or . . . . But we haven't decided anything yet, and we'd want to keep that a special surprise. :)

The point is that there's a built-in discount for Logos Now subscribers because we're planning to make the library part purchasable separately from the software.

Posts 13417
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 18 2016 4:02 PM

Mark:
then when Logos 7 comes out, I can purchase a full logos 7 base package with dynamic pricing since I had been paying for Logos Now for x amounts of months.

Logos Now has always been about rental, not purchase. It's about getting features now, not discounts in the future (the clue is in the name Wink).

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Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 18 2016 4:05 PM

Mark:
I understood that Logos Now meant getting features before Logos 7, and then when Logos 7 comes out, I can purchase a full logos 7 base package with dynamic pricing since I had been paying for Logos Now for x amounts of months.

This is partially correct, with a clarification or two. (1) Dynamic pricing takes into consideration only what you have full ownership of. So you wouldn't get dynamic pricing for the items in Logos Now, which you have only access to. (The reason for this is that a user could sign up to Now, upgrade to 7, cancel Now, and effectively get all the features, datasets, etc. for free.) (2) And if we did decide to do something extra special for Now subscribers (see below), it likely wouldn't correspond to how long you've been subscribing.

Mark:
I saw it more as a way to ease the price tag once the full version came out.  I guess I was wrong.

See my previous post. We haven't decided yet if we'll do something extra special for Logos Now subscribers for the launch. We've designed a model that will already allow Now subscribers to get a really great deal on a Logos 7 library. But we reserve the right to go above and beyond and surprise and delight. :)

Posts 2174
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 18 2016 4:11 PM

Phil

I do understand your email and the issue.  And it makes sense.  I just had a different understanding of it.  But I do understand the problem of someone signing up and then cancelling.

Posts 3695
Milkman | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 18 2016 4:21 PM

Just so I understand.

When is L7 to be released?

Is this a free platform or does it require an upgrade to L7 Gold.

Maybe direct me to link that explains all this.

mm.

mm.

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 18 2016 4:51 PM

Milkman:
When is L7 to be released?

This has not been announced yet.

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EastTN | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 18 2016 5:14 PM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

Logos 7 will most likely be available in two different ways: full ownership (effectively like Logos 6 is today) and partial ownership (library ownership + Now subscription).

Here's what the two options would look like for Logos 7 Gold:

  1. Full ownership: purchase and own the Logos 7 Gold base package, which is made up of Logos 7 Gold library (the books) and the Logos 7 Core software (the features, datasets, interactives, etc.).
  2. Library ownership / software subscription: purchase and own the Logos 7 Gold library (the books) and subscribe (or continue to subscribe) to Logos Now (the features, datasets, interactives, etc.).

I'm very pleased to hear this.  This approach would fully address my concerns as someone who, for a variety of reasons, prefers the ownership approach.

Posts 1962
mike | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 18 2016 5:22 PM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

This is partially correct, with a clarification or two. (1) Dynamic pricing takes into consideration only what you have full ownership of. So you wouldn't get dynamic pricing for the items in Logos Now, which you have only access to. (The reason for this is that a user could sign up to Now, upgrade to 7, cancel Now, and effectively get all the features, datasets, etc. for free.) (2) And if we did decide to do something extra special for Now subscribers (see below), it likely wouldn't correspond to how long you've been subscribing.

Phil,

What happen if I'm a Logos Now subscriber and will continue to be Logos Now subscriber after 7, .... and I want to purchase the FULL Logos 7 Collectors the day it comes out? What perks are different?

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 18 2016 5:35 PM

Milkman:
Is this a free platform or does it require an upgrade to L7 Gold.

The MO has always been that the software is free, the resources and datasets you pay for. With Logos Now, that remains the same, except that you can choose to "rent" the datasets via Now, or purchase in a base package. 

Milkman:
When is L7 to be released?

The point of Phil's comments weren't to announce when L7 will be released... <whisper mode on> but base on past history and official comments, my guess is that it will be late fall <whisper mode off>

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Dave Thawley | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 18 2016 6:16 PM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

ere's what the two options would look like for Logos 7 Gold:

  1. Full ownership: purchase and own the Logos 7 Gold base package, which is made up of Logos 7 Gold library (the books) and the Logos 7 Core software (the features, datasets, interactives, etc.).
  2. Library ownership / software subscription: purchase and own the Logos 7 Gold library (the books) and subscribe (or continue to subscribe) to Logos Now (the features, datasets, interactives, etc.).

Hi Phil, 

My concern with this is that If I buy a full version of Logos 7, there would be a continued drift in functionality as Logos Now develops meaning I would end up paying for the full version and then have to pay extra for the extra features of Logos Now ?  This is an important factor to consider :-) 

Thanks

Dave

Posts 31
-- | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 18 2016 6:44 PM

I think worrying about Logos Now vs. Logos 7 pricing is a red herring for most users in these forums.  The greater concern to me is that continued price inflation of books.  I ran a quick little price check on previous purchases and guesstimate that resources tend to increase 6-8% in price each year.  It's really a shame--my purchases circa 2010 seem to be much more competitive with conventional books at the time, and now, many of them cost 40ish% more...for nothing!  Everyone keeps telling me that FL needs the money to keep investing in new technology, but isn't that why we purchase Logos Now and Logos 7?

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 18 2016 7:03 PM

Tyson Heyn:
Everyone keeps telling me that FL needs the money to keep investing in new technology, but isn't that why we purchase Logos Now and Logos 7?

FL certainly wants to move more customers to being Logos Now subscribers to help level out cash flow... but it is a brand new thing. As for purchasing base packages (i.e. L7), that goes more towards development of the software, not of maintaining and creating resource files. 

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Posts 31
-- | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 18 2016 7:57 PM

I agree!  That's my point.  But I've been told more than once on these forums that I should be happy to pay for ever-increasing book costs because it funds the engine.  I don't know if they're simply trying to be apologists for FL, but at some point, the cost of "maintaining" digital content can't be going up 6-8% year.  

That's where I struggle with FL.  I run my own business!  It's similar to FL in that it's a monopoly of sorts with a worldwide customer base.  In a sense, there's no substitute for either of our services.  But I haven't raised any core prices in probably 3-4 years simply because I know how tight everyone's budget is.  

With FL, whose target markets are mostly churches and pastors and those training for such ministry, I think there should be a bit more empathy.  I'm all for capitalism and profitability, but at some point, you also realize that there's a greater purpose you're serving, and you have to lay off the cutthroat, profit-maximizing nature to some degree.  Just because you CAN charge something doesn't mean that you SHOULD.  Offering a limited-time March Madness sale in one hand doesn't make up for the long-term price increases in the other.

Sorry for venting.  I love the product, but I also think they're damaging their brand with their uncompetitive pricing.

Posts 279
Greg Corbin | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 18 2016 8:13 PM

I agree with EastTN. I prefer ownership, but also see where things are moving to a subscription model. LogosNow can be a "win win" for both FaithLife and those of us who prefer to own but are willing to subscribe in addition to that. Personally, I have been waiting to give my final judgment on LogosNow when Logos 7 comes out and I see exactly what I pay and what I pay for.

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