USERVOICE: Logos on Linux
Question to developers?
Could this become possible ( I realise still not entirely easy) if you try porting from the Mac code using GNUstep.org rather than from the Windows code and focusing on the lack of WPF. All discussions about this come down to a lack of WPF on linux. Wine will never be a solution for us - believe me I've tried to explore this and wasted plenty of time on it.
We need code compiled for linux and deployed using appimage so that it will work on all major distros.
See suggestion here...
גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה
Comments
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This Linux?
[:D]
Eating a steady diet of government cheese, and living in a van down by the river.
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John G said:
We need code compiled for linux and deployed using appimage so that it will work on all major distros.
Please elaborate on practical motivation for compiled code.
AppImage is open source => http://appimage.org/ that is available for commercial use. AppImage's GitHub has read me => https://github.com/probonopd/AppImageKit/blob/master/README.md that includes AppImage is read only by design. Faithlife applications need read and write access to many files.
John G said:All discussions about this come down to a lack of WPF on linux.
Thread => Linux version of Logos Bible Software has 11 Feb 2011 post (with no reply):
[quote]
Wonder about running Mac OS X (Cocoa) interface on Linux ? => http://wiki.gnustep.org/index.php/Writing_portable_code
3 Jul 2012 post included:
Potential development direction for Logos is embedding their own web kit browser for on-screen rendering across platforms (along with editor capabilities). Caveat: migrating Logos away from Windows Presentation Foundation (WPF) is quite daunting => http://community.logos.com/forums/p/49472/379384.aspx#379384 Currently open source software does not offer an alternative to WPF for graphical display.
Logos 4 Mac uses open source Mono for common .Net code along with objective-C for user interface. Logos 4.5c on Mac includes user interface code generation change. Personally suspect modifying Logos 4 Mac user interface code for use on open source distribution(s) would be easier than WPF, especially after seeing graphical docks appear that mimic Mac OS X's dock. Caveat: Logos 4 Mac is currently lacking many features in WPF edition of Logos 4 => Feature Parity
On 4 Jul 2012, a Faithlife developer posed:
Kevin Byford (Faithlife) said:Ulisses Souza said:Drop everything and start developing a cross-platform version.
Hi Ulisses,
Logos cannot simply drop everything and change direction for a handful of non-Logos customers who refuse to use Windows.
Ulisses Souza said:I just do not want to be forced to use MS-Windows!
Logos is not forcing you to use Windows. Thirty percent of Logos Desktop customers run OS X.
Ulisses Souza said:I guess what needs to be clear is there are other OS's people like. It is not a question of percentage of OS users, it is a question of respecting users preferencies.
Actually, it really is a question of the percentage of OS users. Software companies often stay in business by supporting mainstream and widely used operating systems, and often go out of business by catering to everyone's operating system preferences (regardless of how few people use those operating systems). It's a very simple cost/benefit question that anyone who runs a business (software or otherwise) is familiar with. I'm grateful that Logos prefers to stay in business rather than go out of business, since this helps our customers and our product offerings.
Ulisses Souza said:I prefer using POSIX systems.
Mac OS X is fully POSIX compliant, and as already mentioned Logos runs on OS X.
Ulisses Souza said:I will to my best to let other people to know Christ as Lord and to use opensource software. :-)
Ulisses, I hope you are successful beyond your dreams, yet also hope you understand that using non-open source software might help you bring even more people to know Christ as Lord. I'm not saying that it will help, but that it might help - and I'm not talking about Logos software but any Bible software package that isn't open source. Personally, I don't prefer using Windows but if a Windows application helps me achieve something I otherwise couldn't, I'll use it to achieve my goal instead of stopping everything to complain that there isn't a Mac or Linux version and thus lose sight of the goal.
Thanks for your input on the Suggestions forum!
Logos Now subscribers have access to https://app.logos.com that Faithlife Corporation is developing. Logos wiki => https://wiki.logos.com/Mac_Release_Notes_and_History#Mac_Alpha_Pre-Release_Notes_and_History includes Mac Alpha releases when Logos 4 was ported to OS X user interface. Web browser port may take a bit longer to deliver Logos 6+ functionality, which would be usable on open source distributions and mobile devices. Uninformed user speculation is web browser access being a Logos Now subscription perk as web servers have ongoing usage and maintenance costs.
Logos UserVoice suggestion now has 346 votes => https://logos.uservoice.com/forums/42823-logos-bible-software-6/suggestions/3635847-make-logos-4-and-5-avalible-to-individuals-on-ubun with comment on 19 Jan 2016:
Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:Our solution for Linux users will likely be our web app at app.logos.com. If it's full-featured enough, will this meet your needs? Or is offline support a concern?
Subsequent User Voice comment on 15 Mar 2016:
manebule said:@ Phil Gons (Faithlife) Sorry, but a web-based solution will not meet my needs. Where I work doing Bible Translation the internet is slow and expensive... Offline support is essential, to the point that I turn Logos's internet access OFF whenever I'm there. 'Syncronised scrolling' with other translation programs is also essential. I'm not sure a web-based solution would do that...? An added benefit of a Linux version is that I could encourage others to use legal software rather than the pirated versions so ubiquitous in some places in the world. Imagine--you could help with that! :-)
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Maybe I’m unique among Faithlife customers but I purchased my first books from them when my main computer was a debian based laptop. I accessed the books through biblia.com and on my android phone. Later I moved to the iPad app and then to my current macbook pro. Logos played a big part in my decision to move from linux.
I would summarize the main issues like this. It's as simple as they would need X number of paying linux customers before it became a platform worth targeting given that it is not low hanging fruit.
Some of the devs posted about this as if they aren't interested in linux users who want free stuff but only real customers. Actually faithlife has been very savvy in the way it incorporates free into its business model and ought to understand the issues better than most. I haven't seen the typical linux user to be the sort of person who can't afford to purchase Logos. The typical linux user in my experience has multiple computers, is an opinionated expert in how they work and spends a lot on hardware.
In other threads I expressed doubt about the number of customers wanting a linux version but now I think that the evidence is mounting. We have a lot of uservoice requests and we see other big companies also targeting the platform. Steam for games being one of the obvious commercial ventures. Other businesses with similar products are also on linux. We have spotify, amazon kindle and video, google play movies. Linux users are not buying much software but I'm sure they are buying plenty of content.
As my macbook pro is 4 years old I'm beginning to look again at an upgrade. Bad experiences of data loss caused by ms software makes a windows pc an unacceptable solution to me. As I said on the uservoice page if I spend £2000 on a new mac then there is a lot of money right there which will not be spent at the Logos book store.
Personally I was quite excited about the web app because offline is not that important to me. Unfortunately it is so much slower than the desktop app that it is beyond frustrating to use.
I am sure that the devs at faithlife are more aware of the possibilities than I am but sometimes we get stuck in thinking a particular way. I wondered if they had given serious consideration to porting from mac rather than porting from windows. Perhaps so. Perhaps gnustep might help with that? Perhaps creating an app which works similarly to the mobile apps could help? eg. book viewing and basic search functions as well as the simplest parts of the guides are run locally but the more sophisticated stuff gets pulled in from the web? Perhaps if targeting linux was deemed viable then using qt might make sense because when it eventually did catch up they would have a cross platform solution!
I’m sure they will make reasonable and well prioritized decisions but I’d like them to keep thinking about linux because it matters to some of us (hopefully enough of us)!גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה
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John Goodman said:
Actually faithlife has been very savvy in the way it incorporates free into its business model and ought to understand the issues better than most. I haven't seen the typical linux user to be the sort of person who can't afford to purchase Logos. ... I’m sure they will make reasonable and well prioritized decisions but I’d like them to keep thinking about linux because it matters to some of us (hopefully enough of us)!
+1 [Y] share optimism about Faithlife Corporation making profitable business decisions. When https://app.logos.com has decent usability, application could become a virtual web server for an individual's library, which has potential for deployment on a variety of platforms.
John Goodman said:As my macbook pro is 4 years old I'm beginning to look again at an upgrade. Bad experiences of data loss caused by ms software makes a windows pc an unacceptable solution to me.
One option for Apple upgrade is refurbished, which typically has 15 % discount (outside of box has refurbished)
UK => http://www.apple.com/uk/shop/browse/home/specialdeals/mac
US => http://www.apple.com/shop/browse/home/specialdeals/mac
When Apple refreshes computer hardware (hopefully later this year), older refurbished prices tend to drop. Currently would look at models with PCIe-based flash storage.
John Goodman said:The typical linux user in my experience has multiple computers, is an opinionated expert in how they work and spends a lot on hardware.
Virtual Machine(s) are viable option for open source. Windows can be legally licensed. OS X is legally licensed for Apple hardware (Hackintosh is a non-Apple computer running OS X). Personally use "open source" instead of linux to include more licenses and distributions. Both Apple and Microsoft incorporate BSD licensed code, which does not require source code modifications to be publically shared (aka GNU license for linux). Apple includes more than 200 open source projects in OS X => https://www.apple.com/opensource/
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Ubuntu 16.04 includes "Snaps" package alternative => http://www.pcworld.com/article/3056668/linux/ubuntu-1604-will-support-snaps-alongside-deb-packages-for-improved-software-installation.html for self contained application deployment.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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