DOCUMENTATION MISSING BUG: Biblical Event Navigator

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Posted: Sun, Jan 6 2019 7:48 PM

I start with two assumptions:

  1. My favorite book on Biblical narrative is reasonably typical of the field: Reading Biblical Narrative: An Introductory Guide J. P. Fokkelman or. if you insist on a Logos resource, Ryken, Leland. How Bible Stories Work: A Guided Study of Biblical Narrative. Reading the Bible as Literature. Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2015.
  2. Faithlife intends it's online catalog to be accurate

However, the division of events makes my question that the events (1) shows me how the events fits together. Example:

  • In Genesis 2, the lack of an event for God prohibiting the eating of fruit, one cannot understand the event "the serpent tempts Eve and Adam"
  • The titles and event breaks do not lead one to see "Abraham and Sarai go to Egypt" and "Abimelech tries to marry Sarah" as similar stories of Abraham trying to pass Sarah off as his sister.
  • etc. .... especially chiasm in the hierarchy (see Fokkelman)

And, the absences of coding forces me to question that the events represent (2) all narrative events

  • Yes, I acknowledge that "all" in FL vocabulary never means "all" in the sense I believe it should - the NRSV ecumenical version used by many main-stream Protestant churches. However, when they claim to have covered the apocrypha ... and exclude additions to Daniel (among other omissions), I believe I can rightly claim misrepresentation.
  • Without a definition of "event", I can not tell if or where I am correct in claiming events are not covered as they are merged with unrelated events e.g. in 2 Kings 6:24-33 the story of cannibal mothers is not broken out as a narrative event so one can scarcely track its role or it's position in tales of two women

Now, Faithlife may be in the right - they may have met their definition of "event" and "fits together" and "all the Bible (that we happen to use)" But without the documentation, I have no way of knowing. I can only get frustrated.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 7 2019 12:48 PM

I have trouble figuring out the logic for placing the subheading "Cain and Abel" under "Cain Kills Abel."

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Kiyah | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 7 2019 2:06 PM

MJ. Smith:
Yes, I acknowledge that "all" in FL vocabulary never means "all" in the sense I believe it should - the NRSV ecumenical version used by many main-stream Protestant churches. However, when they claim to have covered the apocrypha ... and exclude additions to Daniel (among other omissions), I believe I can rightly claim misrepresentation.

I think events in the Apocryphal/Deuterocanonical books should be included in the Biblical Event Navigator. Since Faithlife sells Logos to Catholics, Orthodox, Anglicans/Episcopalians, seminary students and professors, and other interested parties who may find studying those books edifying, the tools and interactives in Logos should be designed to accommodate them.

On a side note, I know Faithlife was founded by Evangelical Protestants but their customers are broader than that. As an ecumenically-minded Protestant that enjoys studying across the broader church tradition, I find the wall that exists between the Logos side and the Verbum side frustrating. That means I benefit from Catholic and Orthodox resources and tools along with Protestant ones. But Logos seems to assume that you either want the Logos view of things or the Verbum view of things and never the twain shall meet. I've had to do a lot of customizing of layouts, guides, and collections to get my Logos to include Verbum functionality without removing the Logos functionality or the Logos logo/branding in the software (i.e. without doing the "Set Verbum to Yes" thing). I wonder if you still need the Verbum feature set to be able to type in Psalm 151 as a biblical reference in the command box. Before I got a Verbum feature set I couldn't do that. Plus, I noticed that the Logos 8 feature sets no longer include the Catholic Lectionary. Why not include all the lectionaries as they've done in the past? I use the lectionaries via the Liturgy guide section to see how biblical texts fit into the Liturgical Calendar, therefore I use the Catholic lectionary a ton and compare it with the RCL, BCP, and Byzantine lectionaries. If you've never bought a Verbum package you probably don't even know the Liturgy guide section exists.

Okay, rant over. Sorry, didn't mean to hijack your thread. lol

MJ. Smith:
Now, Faithlife may be in the right - they may have met their definition of "event" and "fits together" and "all the Bible (that we happen to use)" But without the documentation, I have no way of knowing. I can only get frustrated.

Agreed.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 7 2019 4:33 PM

Kiyah:
Plus, I noticed that the Logos 8 feature sets no longer include the Catholic Lectionary. Why not include all the lectionaries as they've done in the past? I use the lectionaries via the Liturgy guide section to see how biblical texts fit into the Liturgical Calendar, therefore I use the Catholic lectionary a ton and compare it with the RCL, BCP, and Byzantine lectionaries. If you're exclusively you've never bought a Verbum package you probably don't even know the Liturgy guide section exists.

One aspect of Bible study that Faithlife still has not recognized is the study of scripture in its ecclesial/worship context ... a very important aspect of scripture interpretation though time. If they recognized this, they would understand the importance of including historical lectionaries from all traditions as well as contemporary lectionaries. They have made progress in understanding the importance of patristics, they are starting to recognize that reception history has relevance ... perhaps, next, they can make progress understanding lectionaries.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Kiyah | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 7 2019 5:44 PM

MJ. Smith:
One aspect of Bible study that Faithlife still has not recognized is the study of scripture in its ecclesial/worship context ... a very important aspect of scripture interpretation though time. If they recognized this, they would understand the importance of including historical lectionaries from all traditions as well as contemporary lectionaries. They have made progress in understanding the importance of patristics, they are starting to recognize that reception history has relevance ... perhaps, next, they can make progress understanding lectionaries.

True words. Studying scripture in that larger ecclesial/worship context has greatly enriched my study and deepened my understanding. Hopefully Faithlife will keep moving in that direction, but removing the Catholic lectionary from the Logos feature sets seems emblematic of taking a step backward.

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