BUG??? Workflow Notes
I am not sure this qualifies as a bug, since it is working as designed. It is not unique to the Beta version either, but that is what I am running.
When notes are made in workflows, a note indicator is inserted every time a new note field is populated. As shown in the screen shot, a work flow that incorporates a number of note fields can quickly overwhelm the resource display. I realize that I can turn that notebook off in the visual filters menu, however then there is no indication in the resource that a note for that passage exists.
I am not sure what the solution is. Perhaps a single note indicator could be created when the workflow notebook is generated, rather than for each note field.
Comments
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David Taylor Jr said:
I have quit using workflow notes for various reasons but this is the biggie.
I may have to as well, at least until a solution to this can be developed. It would also be nice to have the tool bar when entering notes in a workflow. Remembering all the RTF Keyboard commands not east for an old man...I meant me, not Jack [;)]
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I too am stuck. Creating a custom workflow (for what I need it to do) is not possible until at least the first 4-5 items (1.Multiple Note Support, 2.Option to specify Commentary Collection, 3.Allow Defining of Note Attributes, 4.Option to specify a resource for “Read” step, & 5.Project Name Field) in this list get implemented.
#1 I think would go a long way in alleviating this problems since the notes could be scattered through the passage, and #3 would allow you to specify no icon on minor/subsequent notes.
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Reuben Helmuth said:
#1 I think would go a long way in alleviating this problems since the notes could be scattered through the passage, and #3 would allow you to specify no icon on minor/subsequent notes.
[Y]
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Reuben Helmuth said:
1.Multiple Note Support... I think would go a long way in alleviating this problems since the notes could be scattered through the passage
Multiple note support is on our list for workflows improvements, but (unless I misunderstand your particular proposal) I don't think this would solve of the problem of having multiple note icons at the beginning of the passage range in the resource.
Today, every workflow note is anchored to
- The unique question/response field
- The workflow key (the Bible reference, lemma, etc., on which you are running the workflow)
#2 means that every note, taken at any point through the workflow, will always be anchored to the entire reference range. Notes could not be "scattered through the passage" unless/until we support multiple keys per workflow-- which has very tricky design concerns, and isn't likely any time soon (if at all).
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Adam Borries (Faithlife) said:
#2 means that every note, taken at any point through the workflow, will always be anchored to the entire reference range. Notes could not be "scattered through the passage" unless/until we support multiple keys per workflow-- which has very tricky design concerns, and isn't likely any time (if at all).
This point alone will keep me from ever using notes in the Workflow tool....
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Adam Borries (Faithlife) said:Reuben Helmuth said:
1.Multiple Note Support... I think would go a long way in alleviating this problems since the notes could be scattered through the passage
Multiple note support is on our list for workflows improvements, but (unless I misunderstand your particular proposal) I don't think this would solve of the problem of having multiple note icons at the beginning of the passage range in the resource.
Today, every workflow note is anchored to
- The unique question/response field
- The workflow key (the Bible reference, lemma, etc., on which you are running the workflow)
#2 means that every note, taken at any point through the workflow, will always be anchored to the entire reference range. Notes could not be "scattered through the passage" unless/until we support multiple keys per workflow-- which has very tricky design concerns, and isn't likely any time (if at all).
Thanks for weighing in Adam. Understanding that multiple note support would not solve the issue of multiple note anchors appearing at the beginning of the passage, is there a solution in the foreseeable that will address the issue? Perhaps an option not to show the indicator in the drop down that enables the note to be deleted from the workflow.
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Fredc said:
When notes are made in workflows, a note indicator is inserted every time a new note field is populated. As shown in the screen shot, a workflow that incorporates a number of note fields can quickly overwhelm the resource display.
This is a problem we are considering how to solve. There are several ideas on the table:
- Collapse all note icons (of the same style and color?) on the same reference into a single icon with a number to represent the count of notes in that location.
- Default to no icon for workflow notes; or a note icon for the first note in a workflow, and none after that.
- More user control over note icon in the workflow (on the instance; alternatively on the editor, Reuben's #3)
- Create Workflows visual filter to turn off all notes anchored to a workflow.
Do any (or any combination) of these appeal to you?
Fredc said:I realize that I can turn that notebook off in the visual filters menu, however then there is no indication in the resource that a note for that passage exists.
I'm not sure I follow your meaning. If you mean you don't know which notebook a note belongs to, we are working on solving that in 8.4.
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Adam Borries (Faithlife) said:
This is a problem we are considering how to solve. There are several ideas on the table:
- Collapse all note icons (of the same style and color?) on the same reference into a single icon with a number to represent the count of notes in that location.
- Default to no icon for workflow notes; or a note icon for the first note in a workflow, and none after that.
- More user control over note icon in the workflow (on the instance; alternatively on the editor, Reuben's #3)
- Create Workflows visual filter to turn off all notes anchored to a workflow.
Do any (or any combination) of these appeal to you?
Honestly out of those options probably number 4.
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Adam Borries (Faithlife) said:Fredc said:
I realize that I can turn that notebook off in the visual filters menu, however then there is no indication in the resource that a note for that passage exists.
I'm not sure I follow your meaning. If you mean you don't know which notebook a note belongs to, we are working on solving that in 8.4.
No. No I mean that if my notes are made in a workflow it inserts a note indicator for each separate Question / Answer item in the workflow at the beginning of the related passage in my open bibles, commentaries, or other versified resource. If I turn that Notebook off in the Visual Filter menu for that resource, then there is nothing to indicate a not has been made for that passage in resource itself.
Adam Borries (Faithlife) said:This is a problem we are considering how to solve. There are several ideas on the table:
- Collapse all note icons (of the same style and color?) on the same reference into a single icon with a number to represent the count of notes in that location.
- Default to no icon for workflow notes; or a note icon for the first note in a workflow, and none after that.
- More user control over note icon in the workflow (on the instance; alternatively on the editor, Reuben's #3)
- Create Workflows visual filter to turn off all notes anchored to a workflow.
Do any (or any combination) of these appeal to you?
I like #2, and that might be the easiest one to implement. Of course I'm a preacher, not a developer so I could be wrong. #1 is appealing, but how would that affect notes made apart from a workflow? For example, if I made 10 notes on a passage in a workflow document, there would be a single indicator that would give me some sort of visual count. If I click the indicator, I assume it would open the notes in that workflow notebook. But suppose in other reading or study I make a note on the same passage. Would the program realize that note was being made apart from the workflow and give me a second indicator that would open to to that note?
IMHO #3 is always good. I will never turn down the opportunity to have more control over anything. However, in developing more control, If you could somehow code something that will make the software do want I want it to do, instead of doing what I tell it to do, that would be awesome[;)]
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Adam Borries (Faithlife) said:
This is a problem we are considering how to solve. There are several ideas on the table:
- Collapse all note icons (of the same style and color?) on the same reference into a single icon with a number to represent the count of notes in that location.
- Default to no icon for workflow notes; or a note icon for the first note in a workflow, and none after that.
- More user control over note icon in the workflow (on the instance; alternatively on the editor, Reuben's #3)
- Create Workflows visual filter to turn off all notes anchored to a workflow.
My choice is #4 AND #1 ... because (a) I had the problem of long strings of note tags in L7 as well where the notes were independent of each other and I needed the ability to control which showed esp. in teaching contexts and (b) because workflows are something that in a teaching situation I need to be able to show/not show.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
My choice is #4 AND #1 ... because (a) I had the problem of long strings of note tags in L7 as well where the notes were independent of each other and I needed the ability to control which showed esp. in teaching contexts and (b) because workflows are something that in a teaching situation I need to be able to show/not show.
#1 would be tricky. I wouldn't want the current behavior if there are multiple annotations on a verse and I hit open annotations and like 4 instances of the Notes Tool opens. Terrible design on that.
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David Taylor Jr said:
#1 would be tricky. I wouldn't want the current behavior if there are multiple annotations on a verse and I hit open annotations and like 4 instances of the Notes Tool opens. Terrible design on that.
It hadn't occurred to me that it might be implemented like that. I envisioned 4 notes appearing in the center column from which I picked the applicable one.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:David Taylor Jr said:
#1 would be tricky. I wouldn't want the current behavior if there are multiple annotations on a verse and I hit open annotations and like 4 instances of the Notes Tool opens. Terrible design on that.
It hadn't occurred to me that it might be implemented like that. I envisioned 4 notes appearing in the center column from which I picked the applicable one.
That is what I hope the change the current open annotations behavior to as well. I hate the current implementation.
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Adam Borries (Faithlife) said:
Multiple note support is on our list for workflows improvements,
That's good to hear! I think, however, that you have misunderstood my proposal. A key element of my “multiple note support“ proposal is the ability to choose the anchor point at the time of note creation. I’m fine with anchoring to the workflow key by default, but definitely do not want that behavior forced upon the user. It is crucial to be able to select a portion of text and create the note on that. In other words do not force me to anchor to the workflow key.
I am trying to write this response on a phone with very poor connection currently so I apologize for the inability to better demonstrate what I mean. If this is not clear, I will try to clarify next week.
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Reuben Helmuth said:
That's good to hear! I think, however, that you have misunderstood my proposal. A key element of my “multiple note support“ proposal is the ability to choose the anchor point at the time of note creation. I’m fine with anchoring to the workflow key by default, but definitely do not want that behavior forced upon the user. It is crucial to be able to select a portion of text and create the note on that. In other words do not force me to anchor to the workflow key.
Yes, yes, yes, YESSSSSSS!
The ability to choose specific ranges within the passage of the workflow is key.
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Adam Borries (Faithlife) said:
- Collapse all note icons (of the same style and color?) on the same reference into a single icon with a number to represent the count of notes in that location.
This is my preferred option, but only if you can develop a UI which means I can still hover over the individual notes that have been collapsed together. Perhaps clicking on the collapsed note could then uncollapse them before re-collapsing a few seconds after I move my mouse away?
An alternative would be to create a super-pop up that contains all the questions/answers for the entire workflow. That would work for me.
Adam Borries (Faithlife) said:Default to no icon for workflow notes; or a note icon for the first note in a workflow, and none after that.
I definitely don't want this. I want to be able to see all my workflow notes. One of the things that makes workflow most valuable to me is that my work in answering the questions resurfaces often.
Adam Borries (Faithlife) said:More user control over note icon in the workflow (on the instance; alternatively on the editor, Reuben's #3)
I don't think this particularly would help me. Same issue as (2).
Adam Borries (Faithlife) said:Create Workflows visual filter to turn off all notes anchored to a workflow.
Regardless of anything else, this would be useful. But as an addition, not on it's own.
That said, if you didn't create a new notebook for every workflow (which is completely unnecessary and clutters up my notebooks), then you wouldn't need to develop this feature at all. We could just turn off the 'Workflow' notebook, as we can do at the moment.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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I am new to this conversation about Notes and Workflows... but I have a 5th option to propose.
Is it possible to create sections within an individual note? In relation to Workflows, a single note would be created for a Workflow, and within that note have "sections" which indicate the separate fields of the workflow. This would solve the overwhelming number of note indicators in the Bible (just 1 indicator for the one note), but would also retain the usefulness of the Workflow (the step/sections of the workflow are now held within the individual note)
Maybe this doesn't work for some reason that I can't know... but just a fresh perspective. Thanks for your work on this
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Adam Borries (Faithlife) said:
This is a problem we are considering how to solve. There are several ideas on the table:
- Collapse all note icons (of the same style and color?) on the same reference into a single icon with a number to represent the count of notes in that location.
- Default to no icon for workflow notes; or a note icon for the first note in a workflow, and none after that.
- More user control over note icon in the workflow (on the instance; alternatively on the editor, Reuben's #3)
- Create Workflows visual filter to turn off all notes anchored to a workflow.
Having experimented with both Notes and Workflows, I find that there are 38 anchors for Ps 124 from a single Workflow. Thankfully, only one notebook instance is opened for all the notes in this workflow. So something like
(38) in the resource would be helpful (option #1), and the icon would link to the workflow's Notebook. It is unlikely that I would change the icon style/color for individual notes.
Notes notes are a different matter, and I can imagine multiple Notebooks being tied to a single reference, so you might be better retaining individual note icons or having a different icon that says "Expand me" (with no count unless it is greater than 5!).
I would also support option #4, but don't change the name of the current Notes and Highlights VF!
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Like Davd, I like 1 and 4
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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