Breath of life

Hi Graham,

Sorry I can't directly answer your question. I have been learning some Greek, but no Hebrew so far. Maybe a later date ...

I wanted to comment, as you seem to be saying it yourself: Someone saying "this" equals "that" based on a translation, may not in fact hold true once someone studies the underlying original language.

So your question is a good example of why Logos4 is so useful to me. Its easy for me to search by Greek lemma and compair verses, rather than based on the English translation. I know Hebrew has a related idea, but there is something new I have yet to get my head around: the "root" concept I have seen spoken of; so until I get some clues on Hebrew, for me, I would not assume I know if two "base" words are the same or different.

Graham, my Hebrew is rusty, but I can at least direct you to resources and features in Logos which should help you understand the range of meanings of these two related words. Looking in commentaries that discuss the underlying Hebrew words is also helpful, if you have any of those in your Library. What base package are you working with?

The Hebrew word in Gen 2:7 is נשׁמה (nsmh). You can look that up in a Hebrew lexicon by right-clicking the English word "breath" in the ESV, then you'll see Lemma among the tabs on the right of the popup menu. Make sure this tab is selected and you'll see the following options on the left side of the menu:

The three most useful options on the left for you will be "Look up," "Search this resource," and "Bible Word Study."

Look up does a basic Lectionary Lexicon lookup. It will depend on which lectionary lexicon or lectionaries lexicons you have available in your library and how you have them prioritized, but I've got Enhanced BDB as my preferred lectionary lexicon, so this is what I get if I click on Look up:

As you can see from the four possible definitions, this can mean breath (either of God, of man, or of every breathing thing) or spirit of man.

If you have multiple lexicons and you want to see what other ones say about this word, you can click on the + tab to the right of your lexicon tab and it will open up a list of all your lexicons that have entries for this word. You can work your way through each of them and see what you learn from that exploration.

The next useful command is "Search this resource" which will find all the other occurrences of that lemma in your ESV (Old Testament). You can look through the various ways it has been translated by the ESV Scholars and get a better idea in context of its range of possible meanings. That won't necessarily tell you what it means in Genesis 2:7, but it gets you partway there.

The "Bible Word Study" sort of combines the best of both of those commands and then some:

Up at the top you'll see a brief summary of glosses (short definitions) of your word:

You can click "more" to show more lexicons (if you have more) and if you hover over a blue highlighted lexicon name, it will pop up the beginning of the entry for that word in that lexicon:

The next section below (Definition) has this nifty exploding wheel that shows you all the different ways that Hebrew word is translated:

If you click on one section of the ring, it will expand out and show you all the verses in the ESV where that Hebrew word is translated by the English word the segment is labeled with. Here it's easy to see that spirit is only used to translate one of the occurrences of nsmh:

All of this is very interesting, but if you don't know Hebrew well, you can't really learn why the translators might have chosen breath for the translation in Gen 2:7. Here's where looking in commentaries is helpful. Here's a brief excerpt from the Word Biblical Commentary volume that covers that part of Genesis. WBC has good discussions of the meanings of Hebrew words and how they relate to the overall meaning of the verse.

The UBS Handbook on Genesis also has some good information on 2:7: "The breath of life is to be understood as 'the breath that gives life' or 'the breath that causes the man to live.'"

If you want to search through your whole library looking for any other places where Genesis 2:7 is discussed, use this search syntax

<Gen 2:7>

Then do all the same stuff I've just described for Gen 1:30, and you should be well on your way to understanding these subtle differences in more depth.

MJ. Smith said:

Rosie Perera said:

Look up does a basic Lectionary lookup.

Is this a new feature? Lectionaries usually deal with lections; lexicons deal with lexemes.

Oops, I should go to bed! [:)]

EDIT: I just fixed my other post. You know, it kind of made sense to my sleep-deprived brain. I must have conflated lexicon + dictionary = lectionary. [:P]

Here I go again, replying to my own post..........

Matthew C Jones said:

This is a great example of why we need the new resource "Learn to Use Biblical Greek and Hebrew" featured in today's blog. http://blog.logos.com/

Or we could all cancel our Pre-Pub orders and let Rosie (with a little help from MJ) teach us how to benefit from our Logos tools.

Seriously, I think that is partly what this new reource will help teach me. I got a little of this instruction at Camp Logos but haven't put it in to practice.

Really cool to see it demonstrated so clearly. Thanks Rosie.

JimT said:

So, this solution needs two steps:

1) We help fund Rosie to have EVERY possible resource that is in Logos format (and maybe some dead-tree ones that are not), then

2) We ask Rosie and she does a complete study for us and posts it back here.

I expect she would welcome (1) but not (2) ...

If you could arrange some way to get my sleep for me (so that I actually benefit from it) then I might be more open to #2. [:P]

Um - If I write something here, Rosie will read it ..

If I don't write something here, Rosie will stay up in case I do, so she can read it.

So, as I expect you will read this, Please Rosie, go sleep and read the rest of any message much later or tomorrow, or the day after that.

Take care of yourself please.

Speaking on a different matter, Paul tells the readers that the body is a temple for the Holy Spirit, and to Glorify God with our body.

I understand from Genesis 2  7 that God formed man from earth (I learn from commentaries in Logos that dust doesn't necessarily mean dry powder).  But man was not yet alive.  So God breathed into his nostrils breath (neshamah, not ruah, as I had been told and believed till I read the original) and so gave him life.  i.e. we have life from God's own breath, unlike animals.  "thus man became a living soul/being".  We can model a man from clay - but can't make it live - only God can do that.  I understand that the tree of life, which they were not forbidden, would have given them eternal life.  So, instead of eating from that tree, they chose to follow the suggestions of the snake and eat from the one tree God in his love had forbidden them, and thus they were cut off from the tree of life.

I wouldn't necessarily advise people to take the years I needed to learn enough Hebrew for it to help me with my Bible study.  But, having put in that time, I feel bereft if I don't have a Hebrew testament to hand.  Now I take that on computer with Logos if I'm away just for a few days.

So, although I'm not ordering it for myself, I do recommend that people think hard about getting the Logos Greek and Hebrew language software if they don't have a reasonable knowledge of Greek and Hebrew.  And I'm not being paid for making this recommendation!!!

Graham Criddle said:

or is what I have done above sufficient?

It would seem that the "original text" in an interlinear ( also in Logos exegetical guide) is directly tied to a particular translation. In Genesus 1:30, the word "breath" occurs in the ESV, but not in the NASB, KJ, or NKJ. So in those translations...it would appear that it never was in the original.

How do we know which translation/interlinear is closest to the ACTUAL original text? The inclusion, or exclusion of that one word dramatically changes this discussion.[:)]

 Nevermind

nicky crane said:

When helping semi-literate Albanian villagers who have a limited vocabulary

Thanks;

I hope this doesn't end up being a double post. I posted these thoughts some time ago...and as of yet, they have not appeared.

I was just overwhelmed to have to admit that the interlinears and the exegetical guide were that unreliable. Though I love the KJV, i have long been aware of errors in the translation. I just didn't realize that errors/deletions in a translation, are mirrored in the interlinear for that particular translation. Being semi-literate,  i just ASSUMED that the "original text" we see in the interlinear held more or less to the actual original...Live and Learn.

kjv interlinear does have the Hebrew nephesh hayyah  (נֶ֣פֶשׁ חַיָּ֔ה) in the interlinear at the bottom.  Also at +, highlighted, if you pass your mouse over it, it says  Heb. a living soul.  I'm learning lots about Logos 4 by following this up!

Milford Charles Murray said:

Peace Indeed, Rosie.  I'd like to echo William's thoughts.   Your post was fantastically beautiful and helpful.  I also have communicated with God through our Lord Jesus Christ a number of times about you and your welfare; and I will again, I'm sure.

           But, sharing takes it's toll.          How often care givers "burn out"!      Let God help you not do that, Rosie.  I can say -- with so many others -- that you are truly appreciated and -- I am pleased to say -- even "loved" by many in this Logos Community.

Two things I'd like to say:

One:  I think Logos should provide a Forum Channel for this kind of sharing.  How helpful it is!

Two:  Rosie, remember the instructions by the airline attendant before taking off:      In case of trouble, use the oxygen for yourself first.  Then you will be capable of taking care of your child.               In other words ............   TAKE CARE!          *smile*

Thank you, and all the others who responded in like fashion. I got 12 hours of sleep last night. Very good. I will try to be more mindful of my health and not get into these massive long sessions of answering posts here. It's fun, and I learn a lot as I go, and I love knowing that I'm helping people. But I do value my long-term ability to keep it up and don't want to burn out. Plus I do have other things in my life that I need to be working on (which I'm, ahem, procrastinating on). Blessings.

Abi Gail said:

Rosie Perera said:

Plus I do have other things in my life that I need to be working on

Would it help if you knew that there are other insomniac excessive compulsive seekers who will guard the ship while you catch up on your procrastinations?

Yes, that does help. But I've also got a competitive streak which can be useful but can also be my downfall at times. I want to be the first one to reply and give a better response than others. That is something that I need to regularly repent of. Backing off to let others answer questions is a good discipline.