Breath of life
Comments
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Rosie Perera said:
But I've also got a competitive streak
I was just pondering. How wide does the streak have to become before the person is reduced to a streak on the competitive force?
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Thank you to everyone who has contributed some of their knowledge to this thread. I have found it very valuable and it has helped me to better understand some Logos features and their application (especially in this case within the framework of a very interesting subject). Your contributions are highly valued and of great benefit to us 'L platers' in L4.
Thank you to all and please look after yourselves.
God bless
Sue
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Graham Criddle said:
I am reading a book on the work of the Holy Spirit and came across a discussion of the meaning of "breath of life" in Genesis 2:7.
It states that "breath of life" cannot mean an immortal human soul because the same words have been used in Genesis 1:30 to describe animals and birds.
I don't want to start a theological debate here but just trying to use Logos SW to validate whether this is an accurate statement.
Using the RI feature in the ESV it shows that the Lemma in 1:30 for "breath" is 'nps' whereas in 2:7 it is 'nsmh'.
Furthermore, It does appear that the phrase "breath of life" in 1:30 is actually equivalent to "living creature" in 2:7.
Graham,
Your conclusions are correct. Humans do not have an immortal human soul. Nothing in scripture indicates they do...that is primarily a Greek infusion from the so-called Early Church Fathers. Nephesh means essentially "breather", i.e. one that has simple spirit-breath (which is not materially different from that which dogs, mice, or grasshoppers have, even if YHWH personally imparted it.) moving through them and providing life. It is surprisingly close to the Greek psuchei, which means virtually the same thing. A "soul" is a living creature. The "dust" was fashioned into a human form, advanced brain design and all, and then YHWH "breathed into it" and it "BECAME a living soul". Humans do not have inherent eternal life, for the soul that sins shall die. As David said, their is no awareness of Elohiym in the grave. When you die, you are dead. The spirit, like a "memory stick" leaves the body and returns to Him, but is non-functional like a battery that has "potential" but is incapable of imparting "life" unless inserted in a mechanical "body". All departed spirits are non-functional while their former bodies return to dust, awaiting their resurrection. That's kind of the whole point of a resurrection. If you are flapping around in heaven after death, why would you need or even want to be resurrected?
On this point, when it says "life is in the blood"--it ISN'T saying life IS the blood. It is the "air", specifically the oxygen in air, and which is "breathed in" and "infused in" the blood that imparts life to mortal creatures. The oxygen is akin to the spirit of life, a la John 3. Regarding "nephesh" which breathe in and rely upon oxygen for life, then it is a result that even bacteria, etc. are nephesh.
While I'm on the subject, Enoch and Elijah both died, just like every other human that has ever lived...they didn't get whisked away to heaven. Their "translations" were no different that the one that Phillip underwent when he was "taken" from the Ethiopian and dropped in Caesarea. The souls under the altar are "figurative language"--kind of obvious considering that it would otherwise get mighty cramped under there. Forget "how many angels on the head of a pin"--rather, "how many souls can you cram under the altar"? Y'shua Himself said that no one had ascended into heaven except the One who came down from heaven. The disobedient are destroyed, they are not roasting in eternal torment. Human ARE "mortal souls"...they do not have "immortal souls". This is precisely why is talks about humans who can "destroy the body" but the God can "destroy both body and soul". The obedient who are resurrected receive their "lives"--their "souls"--back when their personal human spirits, juiced up on the Holy Spirit (I'm speaking metaphorically) are plugged into "spirit bodies" and thus receive eternal life, which the Bible calls a gift. Eternal life is inherent in YHWH alone. Even hassatan will be destroyed eventually.
Keep studying...you'll be amazed at how much of what you learned in Sunday school is unbiblical.
ASUS ProArt x570s Creator, AMD R9 5950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, ASUS Strix RTX 2080 ti
"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
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David Paul said:Graham Criddle said:
I am reading a book on the work of the Holy Spirit and came across a discussion of the meaning of "breath of life" in Genesis 2:7.
It states that "breath of life" cannot mean an immortal human soul because the same words have been used in Genesis 1:30 to describe animals and birds.
I don't want to start a theological debate here but just trying to use Logos SW to validate whether this is an accurate statement.
Using the RI feature in the ESV it shows that the Lemma in 1:30 for "breath" is 'nps' whereas in 2:7 it is 'nsmh'.
Furthermore, It does appear that the phrase "breath of life" in 1:30 is actually equivalent to "living creature" in 2:7.
Graham,
Your conclusions are correct. Humans do not have an immortal human soul. Nothing in scripture indicates they do...that is primarily a Greek infusion from the so-called Early Church Fathers. Nephesh means essentially "breather", i.e. one that has simple spirit-breath (which is not materially different from that which dogs, mice, or grasshoppers have, even if YHWH personally imparted it.) moving through them and providing life. It is surprisingly close to the Greek psuchei, which means virtually the same thing. A "soul" is a living creature. The "dust" was fashioned into a human form, advanced brain design and all, and then YHWH "breathed into it" and it "BECAME a living soul". Humans do not have inherent eternal life, for the soul that sins shall die. As David said, their is no awareness of Elohiym in the grave. When you die, you are dead. The spirit, like a "memory stick" leaves the body and returns to Him, but is non-functional like a battery that has "potential" but is incapable of imparting "life" unless inserted in a mechanical "body". All departed spirits are non-functional while their former bodies return to dust, awaiting their resurrection. That's kind of the whole point of a resurrection. If you are flapping around in heaven after death, why would you need or even want to be resurrected?
On this point, when it says "life is in the blood"--it ISN'T saying life IS the blood. It is the "air", specifically the oxygen in air, and which is "breathed in" and "infused in" the blood that imparts life to mortal creatures. The oxygen is akin to the spirit of life, a la John 3. Regarding "nephesh" which breathe in and rely upon oxygen for life, then it is a result that even bacteria, etc. are nephesh.
While I'm on the subject, Enoch and Elijah both died, just like every other human that has ever lived...they didn't get whisked away to heaven. Their "translations" were no different that the one that Phillip underwent when he was "taken" from the Ethiopian and dropped in Caesarea. The souls under the altar are "figurative language"--kind of obvious considering that it would otherwise get mighty cramped under there. Forget "how many angels on the head of a pin"--rather, "how many souls can you cram under the altar"? Y'shua Himself said that no one had ascended into heaven except the One who came down from heaven. The disobedient are destroyed, they are not roasting in eternal torment. Human ARE "mortal souls"...they do not have "immortal souls". This is precisely why is talks about humans who can "destroy the body" but the God can "destroy both body and soul". The obedient who are resurrected receive their "lives"--their "souls"--back when their personal human spirits, juiced up on the Holy Spirit (I'm speaking metaphorically) are plugged into "spirit bodies" and thus receive eternal life, which the Bible calls a gift. Eternal life is inherent in YHWH alone. Even hassatan will be destroyed eventually.
Keep studying...you'll be amazed at how much of what you learned in Sunday school is unbiblical.
Dear David Paul,
You have posted enough to know that it is offensive to the members of this Logos Community, and against the Logos Forum Guidelines to post this kind of theological drivel. You seem to want to deliberately upset many humble, trusting believing Brothers and Sisters.
You know better or at least should know better. What is your motive? What are you trying to prove by this "Shock" posting. I am not one of the so-called Logos MVP "star" dear brothers and sisters, so I do not have the authority to officially rebuke you and ask you to desist. But! I do find this post and your attitude quite offensive.
Philippians 4: 4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........
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David, there are many devout and well-educated theologians who take different sides or are agnostic on the point of whether the wicked are annihilated after death or are sent to everlasting punishment. It is an open debate. There is biblical support for both positions. Your supercilious tone is unlikely to change anyone's mind who sees it the other way.
My I also remind you of the forum guidelines, which you can find linked from the upper right of the home page:
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David Paul said:
Your conclusions are correct. Humans do not have an immortal human soul. Nothing in scripture indicates they do...that is primarily a Greek infusion from the so-called Early Church Fathers.
David,
Thank you so much for your post, it is refreshing! I get so tired of this "greek mindset" drivel that infuses every aspect of mainstream theological thinking! I seriously do not understand why people take offense to thought and conjecture! A little drash is good for the breath of life! SERIOUSLY! I think you make the whole point of biblical word study...! You MUST consider contextual mindset (ie Hebraic), you cannot just look at all of your beautiful resources, use your greek mindset and come to a nifty, and hasty conclusion! Oh BTW David did not start this "Theological" debate.... Graham did... Resources are good, but mindset is better, thanks David.
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Hi everyone
Thanks for the responses and insight - sorry for not re-engaging sooner, it was a busy day in college yesterday including a Greek exam [:)]
Rosie - many thanks for your initial response (though I do share the concern others have expressed for your continual health!) - the comment on the use of lexicons was helpful but particularly pointing me back to the commentaries. I guess I was trying to "work this out for myself" but with my (lack of) knowledge of Hebrew that wasn't very likely! As you point out the WBC comments on this usage in 2:7 and seems to be saying that God indeed breathed into man - making him alive - with the consequence that he became alive. It goes on to say that this is not what distinguishes man from animals as animals are described in the same terms (going back to my earlier comment that the phrase translated as "living creature" in 2:7 is the same as that translated as "breath of life" in 1:30).
So - from the commentary and lexicon - the fact of God breathing into man is what made him live but it isn't what constitutes him different to the rest of the "animal world". This difference (again according to WBC) is initially that man alone is made in God's image but it does accept that man alone receives the breath of God directly which was picked up in the first post which Nicky made where she commented that 2:7 shows God breathing into man's nostrils gives us life from God's own breath, unlike animals.
M.J. - thanks for the insight from Onkelos - just not quite sure what to make of it!!
I found the discussion between Nicky and Abi very useful and it clarified some useful points about the RIs and went from there to look at "Andersen-Forbes Phrase Marker Analysis" and "Andersen-Forbes Analysed Text" for some useful insight on how the original language was laid out.
I then thought I should look at some dictionaries.
The Dictionary of Biblical Imagery argues that human breath is equated with the divine breath:
"Breath is an image that links God with humanity in creation, salvation, prophecy, faith and judgment. At the creation of Adam, “the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being” (Gen 2:7 NASB). Human breath, equated with the divine breath, is an allotment of life, a portion of the divine spark and a gift (Job 27:3).
Leland Ryken, Jim Wilhoit, Tremper Longman et al., Dictionary of Biblical Imagery, electronic ed., 119 (Downers Grove, IL: InterVarsity Press, 2000)."
and that:
"Every living thing has the breath of life in its nostrils, but only man has the breath of God in his nostrils."
Leland Ryken, Jim Wilhoit, Tremper Longman et al., Dictionary of Biblical Imagery, electronic ed., 597 (Downers Grove, IL: InterVarsity Press, 2000).
The Dictionary of the Old Testament: Pentateuch states:
"God is the Creator of all life: physical, animal and human (Gen 1–2). Both the creation accounts distinguish humanity from the rest of creation as created in the *image of God (Gen 1:26–27) and as receiving the divine “breath of life” (Gen 2:7). "
T. Desmond Alexander and David W. Baker, Dictionary of the Old Testament: Pentateuch, 533 (Downers Grove, IL: InterVarsity Press, 2003).
Overall the thrust of what is being said here is that while all animal life has the breath of life it is only man who received the breath of God directly in him and that this is part of man's uniqueness with another significant part being that we are created in God's image and likeness.
However (back to my original post), to say that
"breath of life" cannot mean an immortal human soul because the same words have been used in Genesis 1:30 to describe animals and birds.
is not correct because different Hebrew words are used for "breath of life" in 1:30 and 2:7. This doesn't - of course - mean that it is necessarily correct to infer from "breath of life" in 2:7 that man does have an immortal soul. We find that elsewhere but that's a different discussion!
Thanks again
Graham
EDIT: I started this reply before seeing Nathan's response so shouldn't be seen in any way as a response to what he posted
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Nathan Barnes said:
Oh BTW David did not start this "Theological" debate.... Graham did...
Ah, the discussion is at the "he started it" stage? It does not matter who started it. What matters is that we play by Logos' rules in Logos' forums. Even if that is an English-law Greek-logic mindset.[:)]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
Ah, the discussion is at the "he started it" stage? It does not matter who started it. What matters is that we play by Logos' rules in Logos' forums. Even if that is an English-law Greek-logic mindset.
I noticed that you missed the whole point...resources are great but mindset is better. Lexicons are great but mindset is better..do you want me to go on...? How lame, mr. m.j., this is not about "rules", the whole context of this thread is about how to use L4 to understand the original language...ie mindset. So as long as we play along in (conform to) this "greek" utopia we are within the "rules". You missed the whole point dude.
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Nathan Barnes said:
I noticed that you missed the whole point...resources are great but mindset is better. Lexicons are great but mindset is better..do you want me to go on...? How lame, mr. m.j., this is not about "rules", the whole context of this thread is about how to use L4 to understand the original language...ie mindset. So as long as we play along in (conform to) this "greek" utopia we are within the "rules". You missed the whole point dude.
That would be "dudette". "Martha" puts the M in MJ. [:)]
Having established that, Martha and Rosie's point is that theological debate is not permitted in the forums. These are forums on how to use Logos software to their fullest extent. If we can keep the breath of life discussion within that realm - we can continue it and live within the Forum guidelines which Rosie posted.
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 0 -
I think we can allow ourselves some latitude with asides, e.g. concern for Rosie's health - or does she count as an integral part of Logos Bible Software? I think it's important to show respect for those with whom we differ and not rubbish those who think differently or hurl insults at one another.
Rosie, I too have appreciated your help so often. Incidentally it took me a long time to realise that your photo showed a dog sitting on your shoulder - at first I thought it was either a zoom lens or a telescope! To have one of my dogs looking over my shoulder, he'd have to have his feet on the ground and his head over his paws on my shoulder! Must work on it.
Incidentally, (?Martha?) how do I find the reference in Torah thro time to speaking spirit? How can I search in a single book?
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Here I go replying to my own post again. (Getting to be a bad habit.)
Matthew C Jones said:There are enough tools in Logos to give an answer to the first statement. If the Hebrew scholars who told me what it says are correct, your deduction is on target
After reading a few of the "there is no literal hell" posts I think I may have misunderstood your final deduction "living creature." This is why it is necessary to go to the original language. English can be so vague. I refuse to mud wrestle in theological debate today. (One day at a time, right?)
My point of clarification is: Those Hebrew scholars have told me there is a difference between animal life and human life based on this verse.
My recommendation is to jump on that Pre-Pub before it starts shipping today. http://www.logos.com/products/prepub/details/5876
And study for yourself. The world is full of false doctrine and erroneous opinions.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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nicky crane said:
e.g. concern for Rosie's health - or does she count as an integral part of Logos Bible Software?
I tried to make an Icon on the Toolbar for the command "Ask Rosie to see if she can find an answer" but could not get it to save.
After trying everything I could, I decided that its not a supported comand, and maybe Rosie just helps when she likes ...
(Thanks Rosie - just teasing in what I hope you understand is a fun way [:)])
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Thomas Black said:
That would be "dudette". "Martha" puts the M in MJ.
My "mindset" was Gender Neutral....
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nicky crane said:
I think we can allow ourselves some latitude with asides, e.g. concern for Rosie's health - or does she count as an integral part of Logos Bible Software? I think it's important to show respect for those with whom we differ and not rubbish those who think differently or hurl insults at one another.
Rosie, I too have appreciated your help so often. Incidentally it took me a long time to realise that your photo showed a dog sitting on your shoulder - at first I thought it was either a zoom lens or a telescope! To have one of my dogs looking over my shoulder, he'd have to have his feet on the ground and his head over his paws on my shoulder! Must work on it.
Incidentally, (?Martha?) how do I find the reference in Torah thro time to speaking spirit? How can I search in a single book?
A dog? I thought she was holding a camera with one hand on top of the body and the other under the lens (the way I hold a camera for a vertical shot). Considering the mountain in the background I thought the camera was most likely.
Perhaps you could be a bit more explicit regarding "the reference in Torah thro time to speaking spirit" since I'm not sure what you're asking.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Edit: I changed my mind, so deleted what I had here before.
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nicky crane said:
how do I find the reference in Torah thro time to speaking spirit? How can I search in a single book?
If you open a book, you can select "Find in this panel" from the resource menu or CNTRL +F will bring up the search window.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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George Somsel said:
A dog? I thought she was holding a camera with one hand on top of the body and the other under the lens (the way I hold a camera for a vertical shot).
I think Rosie said it was her camera in an old post. If it is her dog,maybe she is about to toss him vertically...........[&]
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Nathan Barnes said:
I noticed that you missed the whole point...resources are great but mindset is better.
Actually I didn't miss your point; I agree with it. My educational background is philosophy and South Asian languages (Sanskrit, Pail, Vedic, Avestan and such). As such, my own mindset is far more catholic than most (pun intended, I am also Catholic). I am always pressing for more resources from the Greek and Eastern churches because I get frustrated at the mindless assumption that Christian worldview=Western worldview.
However, I think that the original poster was asking how to research a theological idea that he had heard rather than his promoting belief for or against that stand. Therefore, I think that he stayed within the guidelines and felt it important that he not be left with the feeling he'd done something inappropriate. That was the complete purpose of my response. I suspect that it was my humor (English-law, Greek-logic) that made you think I disagreed with your comments on mindset. I apologize. They referred back to a discussion that many on the forums probably did not follow - I need to remember to think more by thread than by forum.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Thank you, Martha! It's so easy once you know!
"Onkelos, the second-century convert to Judaism, also converted the Torah into the common language of his day, Aramaic. He translates/interprets Gen. 2:7 as Adam becoming a speaking spirit rather than as the NJPS translation has it, a living being. Once Cain and Abel renounced their commitment to dialogue, to speaking with one another, they abdicated from what distinguished them from other beasts—their ability to communicate—and, thus, fell under the law of the jungle.
This fascinates me. When I ask our children how people are different from animals, they usually say: they can speak. Previously I've always "corrected" them and explained it's because we can communicate with God. Now I need to rethink that. Thank you, Logos!
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nicky crane said:
Previously I've always "corrected" them and explained it's because we can communicate with God. Now I need to rethink that. Thank you, Logos!
I too was very glad to see the quote MJ posted. It was thought provoking. I started to comment on it yesterday, but thought better of it. Now I feel I must.
Rethinking our position is healthy. I was happy that Onkelos used the word Spirit. It helps to differentiate man from beast. My point is that I see the ability to discern and choose, of more import than to speak. ( In fact we are cautioned to bridle our tongue.) The communication you mention is central. The fact that He created us with that ability is amazing. The fact that He chooses that communication with us is AWESOME. But it does not require speech. Bottom line ...I see speaking as a symptom of an enhanced thought process, rather than the end result of it. One more bottom line, and I'll climb down off my stump. We are told that God IS Spirit. It would follow that the breath that He breathes is also Spirit. He doesn't require oxygen.
I am not as good as some others at disguising my stump preaching as software instruction. I will work on that.[:D]
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Milford Charles Murray said:
Dear David Paul,
You have posted enough to know that it is offensive to the members of this Logos Community, and against the Logos Forum Guidelines to post this kind of theological drivel. You seem to want to deliberately upset many humble, trusting believing Brothers and Sisters.
You know better or at least should know better. What is your motive? What are you trying to prove by this "Shock" posting. I am not one of the so-called Logos MVP "star" dear brothers and sisters, so I do not have the authority to officially rebuke you and ask you to desist. But! I do find this post and your attitude quite offensive.
LOL, I'm sorry you felt like this was a "shock" posting, MC. There are about a dozen Bible quotes in my post which I didn't "quote", I just figured most Logos users would catch them. My comments about nephesh are rather tepid and accord with most lexicons. Maybe you are put off by Ps.6:5? If you would like to explain just what you mean by "drivel", you may email me: mindfruit AT live_com. The underscore is a dot...just trying to shake the spambots.
As Reagan said, "Trust but VERIFY."
ASUS ProArt x570s Creator, AMD R9 5950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, ASUS Strix RTX 2080 ti
"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
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Nathan Barnes said:David Paul said:
Your conclusions are correct. Humans do not have an immortal human soul. Nothing in scripture indicates they do...that is primarily a Greek infusion from the so-called Early Church Fathers.
David,
Thank you so much for your post, it is refreshing! I get so tired of this "greek mindset" drivel that infuses every aspect of mainstream theological thinking! I seriously do not understand why people take offense to thought and conjecture! A little drash is good for the breath of life! SERIOUSLY! I think you make the whole point of biblical word study...! You MUST consider contextual mindset (ie Hebraic), you cannot just look at all of your beautiful resources, use your greek mindset and come to a nifty, and hasty conclusion! Oh BTW David did not start this "Theological" debate.... Graham did... Resources are good, but mindset is better, thanks David.
Nick,
[Y] to the Hebraic mindset! [Y] to drash!
And while I'm [Y] ... [Y] to sod! Sod is the foundation of all knowledge! [Let the reader understand.]
ASUS ProArt x570s Creator, AMD R9 5950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, ASUS Strix RTX 2080 ti
"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
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David Paul said:Milford Charles Murray said:
Dear David Paul,
You have posted enough to know that it is offensive to the members of this Logos Community, and against the Logos Forum Guidelines to post this kind of theological drivel. You seem to want to deliberately upset many humble, trusting believing Brothers and Sisters.
You know better or at least should know better. What is your motive? What are you trying to prove by this "Shock" posting. I am not one of the so-called Logos MVP "star" dear brothers and sisters, so I do not have the authority to officially rebuke you and ask you to desist. But! I do find this post and your attitude quite offensive.
LOL, I'm sorry you felt like this was a "shock" posting, MC. There are about a dozen Bible quotes in my post which I didn't "quote", I just figured most Logos users would catch them. My comments about nephesh are rather tepid and accord with most lexicons. Maybe you are put off by Ps.6:5? If you would like to explain just what you mean by "drivel", you may email me: mindfruit AT live_com. The underscore is a dot...just trying to shake the spambots.
As Reagan said, "Trust but VERIFY."
Peace and Joy in the Lord to you, David! *smile*
Am pleased to hear from you and will respond in a positive and coherent fashion later today or early Sunday. Blessing!
Philippians 4: 4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........
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nicky crane said:
Rosie, ... it took me a long time to realise that your photo showed a dog sitting on your shoulder - at first I thought it was either a zoom lens or a telescope!
Ha! Nicky, that is my camera, not my dog. [:)] Your comment reminds me of the time my grandmother saw a photo of me almost fully submerged in a lake, holding my labrador retriever puppy on my shoulder, and she said "Oh, what a cute picture of Cricket; but what's that rock she's sitting on?"
EDIT:
JimT said:...maybe Rosie just helps when she likes ...
I help when I'm home, and am not asleep or sick in bed, and don't t have something else more important to do, and am not getting tired of it. As long as you all make it fun and not a bore or a chore, I keep coming back for more. But I also believe in taking a technology sabbath every once in a while to keep things in perspective, so I might go silent for unexplained periods of time. It might be that I'm just trying to get a handle on my Logos forum addiction.
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Rosie Perera said:
and don't t have something else more important to do,
I figured you might be busy going to
Steve Runge's Greek Discourse Workshop June 7~8th,
National Camp Logos June 10~11th, &
Camp Logos Alaskan Cruise June 12~19th.Who knows? Maybe you did and you are so addicted to the forums you are using satellite uplink to answer forum questions from the inside passage to Alaska.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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