Logos in John 1
Does logos in John 1 just have this deeper Greek meaning (unlike other instances where it is just talking about the simple meaning of the word) or does the John 1 usage include more than one of the possible meanings of logos?
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The forums are not to provide answers to theological/interpretation issues but for the use of Logos. Again the advice is to read all your commentaries and journal articles on the passage, perhaps making an argument map, then make your own decision on what you think is the answer to your question.
I am getting concerned about the quality of education you are receiving. I learned some skills of researching topics from my high school English teacher. My freshman year of college, the library had workshops and handouts on how to do research. My first year of graduate school, the library again had workshops and handouts. If I got stuck, my professors were always willing to give me a reference or two to get over the roadblock. What resources/guidance/training are available to you to learn this basic skill?
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Christian Alexander said:
Does logos in John 1 just have this deeper Greek meaning (unlike other instances where it is just talking about the simple meaning of the word) or does the John 1 usage include more than one of the possible meanings of logos?
Search idea is <jn1.1> in Grammar resources:
My literal translation of John 1:1 => In beginning was being the word, and the word was being with the God, and God was being the word.
(Greek verb ἦν is imperfect tense, which is continuous action in past time: "was being")
FYI: Apostle John begins with the same first two words as the Greek Septuagint in Genesis: Ἐν ἀρχῇ
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Yeah definitely agreeing with MJ there... when I went through law school Many Many Years Ago, one of our mandatory first year courses was Legal Research, where we were taught in the Classroom of the Library, *step by step*, with exercises, how to research laws (Canadian federal and provincial etc.), case law (Canadian, Common Law, Civil law...), and other needed areas of legal research, as well as some basic online legal research using specific databases, because of course, back in 1993, all that stuff was only really getting started and were still very much a paper-based profession.
I can't remember if it was only one semester or the entire school year in length, but what I do know is this, one of the greatest benefits I received from my law school education wasn't so much, WHAT are all the laws and cases, but WHERE CAN I FIND THE INFO for the answer to that question! I can find anything anywhere, LOL!
Good times. I should hope such a method remains a vital part of any Christian and seminary education. That having been said, I have no memory whatsoever of such a course when I started my undergrad at university though.
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Carmen Gauvin-O'Donnell said:
one of the greatest benefits I received from my law school education wasn't so much, WHAT are all the laws and cases, but WHERE CAN I FIND THE INFO for the answer to that question!
This was exactly my experience in seminary. The primary benefit was not memorizing doctrine, but learning how to study in a reliable way using proper resources.
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Christian Alexander said:
Does logos in John 1 just have this deeper Greek meaning (unlike other instances where it is just talking about the simple meaning of the word) or does the John 1 usage include more than one of the possible meanings of logos?
Back when I first came to Christ, I found a little church in Cerritos, California, led by Pastor Jack. I knew absolutely nothing, and I mean nothing: I thought Jesus' resurrection meant that He was remembered by His disciples! I spent a lot of hours dropping in on Pastor Jack, with all sorts of questions, and he kindly and generously opened his study door to me every time. How does salvation work? What about the dinosaurs? What is prayer? On and on.
My friend, you need to take these things to your pastor, and give him the opportunity to give you a foundation in Scripture.
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Christian Alexander said:
Does logos in John 1 just have this deeper Greek meaning (unlike other instances where it is just talking about the simple meaning of the word) or does the John 1 usage include more than one of the possible meanings of logos?
Back when I first came to Christ, I found a little church in Cerritos, California, led by Pastor Jack. I knew absolutely nothing, and I mean nothing: I thought Jesus' resurrection meant that He was remembered by His disciples! I spent a lot of hours dropping in on Pastor Jack, with all sorts of questions, and he kindly and generously opened his study door to me every time. How does salvation work? What about the dinosaurs? What is prayer? On and on.
My friend, you need to take these things to your pastor, and give him the opportunity to give you a foundation in Scripture.
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Carmen Gauvin-O'Donnell said:
Good times. I should hope such a method remains a vital part of any Christian and seminary education. That having been said, I have no memory whatsoever of such a course when I started my undergrad at university though.
Yep ... me neither. I remember the college's UmptyDumpty Library. One massive 'get it over with'. I know more about our little library today, and where to find stuff.
I'm amazed at my Logos library. If I didn't 'buy the library', I'd never have known. Ease of access, maybe.
Being a born contrarian, I wonder about the 'Book of Lists' aspect of Logos. Teaches how to think 'lists'. Not relations, flavors, and images. Dependencies and 'the times'. Maybe what MJ is hinting at.
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Christian,
I would also ask, "What avenues have you already used to find this out on your own?"
You should be asking questions like, "I looked here, here, and here, to find out the meaning of the word logos in John 1, but I didn't find what I was looking for. Can someone suggest a search or resource that might help?" This would still be related to the software, which is the ONLY point of these forums, though I do understand sometimes things get off the rails.
Two other issues: 1. When you ask questions like this, it seems as though you are trying to get people to answer your homework questions; and 2. You don't usually return to the threads where you have asked these questions, so it seems as though you are putting forum members to work who want to be helpful, and then never revisiting to follow up. This makes it harder for people to be able to help you.
Disclaimer: I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication. If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.
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Joseph Turner said:
2. You don't usually return to the threads where you have asked these questions, so it seems as though you are putting forum members to work who want to be helpful, and then never revisiting to follow up. This makes it harder for people to be able to help you.
Not disagreeing ... smiling. But it sure looks like 'spin the bottle'. Or 'see what comes up for air'. Laughter in the digital-dorms.
More seriously, did anyone know 'Logos' is in Dieties and Demons? I'd not expected 'that'. I knew Philo had gone to town. Or Logos is in everyone ... a century before 'John' ... which then becomes cultural. Uh oh.
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DMB said:
More seriously, did anyone know 'Logos' is in Dieties and Demons? I'd not expected 'that'. I knew Philo had gone to town. Or Logos is in everyone ... a century before 'John' ... which then becomes cultural. Uh oh.
I love DDD. I think it is one of the most underrated resources.
Disclaimer: I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication. If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.
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Sorry... I really couldn't help myself...
But I was at least able to make this post about a Logos Resource...[;)]
=====
"I don't know what you mean by 'glory,' " Alice said.
Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. "Of course you don't—till I tell you. I meant 'there's a nice knock-down argument for you!'"
"But 'glory' doesn't mean 'a nice knock-down argument'," Alice objected.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less."
"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."
"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master—that's all."=====
https://www.logos.com/product/42375/select-works-of-lewis-carroll
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Joseph Turner said:DMB said:
More seriously, did anyone know 'Logos' is in Dieties and Demons? I'd not expected 'that'. I knew Philo had gone to town. Or Logos is in everyone ... a century before 'John' ... which then becomes cultural. Uh oh.
I love DDD. I think it is one of the most underrated resources.
Thanks for mentioning that article. I have the DDD resource but had not really looked through it yet. I took a quick glance at the article. I'll need to spend a bit more time to actually read the article but I found what I did read so far to be interesting.
I will also have to spend some time looking through the whole resource. More rabbit holes to go down or is that Looking Glasses to go through? [A]
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Hey Christian,
Let me apologize for this, at least the tone in which I read it...
While it was stated that the purpose of the forum is not to answer theological questions, we also exercise the liberty help a brother/sister in Christ. I have found that one in particular answer that you received to be very condescending and unnecessary and would have been better left unanswered instead of giving this kind of an answer, many apologies for that. We would all do well to remember that we are called on by Scripture to be an encouragement to one another and not make people feel inferior for what we perceive to be a inferior education than what we have.
The "Logos" of John 1 is a reference to Jesus Christ and is one of the great passages on the deity of Christ. While the word "logos" can refer to just words, the context of John 1 does indicate for us that the "logos" that is in reference is Jesus Christ..."the Logos became flesh and dwelt among us...." Many evangelical commentaries in Logos will guide you beautifully through this and other passages with clarity. One of my personal favorites is "The MacArthur New Testament Commentary."
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Christian:
while not being an expert, I think L9 and FL gives plenty of clues to point in the right direction about particular meanings (not necesarily deeper have to dig hard ones).
Not saying that the above author has ultimate truth, but points in my opinion in the right direction to understand the meaning of Logos.
One wonders if taking into consideration the worldview of John's Gospel times, Logos was meant to signify more like the dwelling of God.
Jesus as a Hypostasis that was allowed to have life in Himself like the Father, could die for us, (God cannot die), but a Hypostasis can (having the form of God let go of it and became servant), so that when glorified after death Jesus became the New Temple of God where the Fullness of the Deity dwells bodily.
Angel of Yahweh was in the form of God, and had the Name (presence of God) in Him, so was like a pre incarnation of Jesus (Divine Hypostasis).
See:
https://blog.logos.com/angel-of-the-lord/
The above is to promote further research using all resources and capabilities of L9, not to start a debate.
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