Can you help us improve search?

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Mark Barnes (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Mar 7 2022 5:10 PM

Hello everyone,

We'd love your help in understanding how we can improve Logos search. Could you spare five minutes to answer seven questions about one of the ways we're thinking of improving search? Your participation will help us improve Logos for everyone.

Thank you!

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 7 2022 5:32 PM

I cooperated but I am very curious as to why you have focused on the autocompleter?

I would suggest these are equally important:

  • make the 3 options in the panel menu, visible and settable in the Search panel
  • make the range of the search (verse, article, chapter, clause) explicit in the Search panel rather than having it be esoteric knowledge
  • ensure that all keywords and symbols are illustrated in the cookbook/template although some should be only visible by expansion e.g. Match

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 7 2022 6:03 PM

I too filled out the form but I seldom tend to use the auto-completer. Maybe I should but I don't.

In light of this I too think what MJ suggests is worth developing as I would be more likely to benefit from those.

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 7 2022 11:04 PM

MJ. Smith:
I cooperated but I am very curious as to why you have focused on the autocompleter?

Actually, I tried to cooperate, but was at a loss what to answer and suggest once I had indicated I most often don't use autocomplete in Logos. It's more of a nuisance than a help in standard Basic and Bible search - I do like the support I get with lemmas and such original language stuff. But in everyday English or German usage I regularly ignore the words, concepts and factbook entries I get suggested and stick with what I have put in.

In fact, reflecting over this, I asked myself why this is the case. Not sure - for some reason I don't trust the data quality behind all those suggestions and want search to execute what I put in, not hand me some curated results which may or may not be correctly and completely tagged. FWIW: I do use and like autocomplete in Google. 

MJ. Smith:

I would suggest these are equally much more important:

  • make the 3 options in the panel menu, visible and settable in the Search panel YES! YES! YES!
  • make the range of the search (verse, article, chapter, clause) explicit in the Search panel rather than having it be esoteric knowledge
  • ensure that all keywords and symbols are illustrated in the cookbook/template although some should be only visible by expansion e.g. Match

fixed the quote. And for bullet 1 please read Search panel to include the Inline search panel in resources

Running Logos 9 latest (beta) version on Win 10

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Mark Barnes (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 8 2022 1:38 AM

MJ. Smith:
I cooperated but I am very curious as to why you have focused on the autocompleter?

Only that we're less clear about what users want from that feature. It doesn't mean we think it's the most important problem to solve.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 8 2022 2:26 AM

Mark Barnes (Faithlife):
we're less clear about what users want from that feature

Ah, I would give a different answer to what I think the "average user" wants compared to what I would want. What I hear people asking for is something similar to some of the general editors for code. By which I mean that if one enters { it automatically adds }, or < generates > also. Or if I enter {Label M -- the drop down for M includes only valid labels beginning with M ... and the WHERE is automatically generated and attribute values are limited to ... You get the idea. If you have ever written the definition cards for a specific language in a general editor you've done something similar. While one can helpfully go far down this path, there are enough parameters that are wide open that I suspect people would be disappointed for two reasons:

  • there are too many places where the list of possible values is sufficient long that it is nearly equivalent to the current list
  • while it reminds people to the correct syntax, you still have to think through the logical form of what you want ... some users want it to answer questions as improbable as "give me all the memory verses my Sunday school taught preschoolers."

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Mark Barnes (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 8 2022 2:37 AM

MJ. Smith:
What I hear people asking for is something similar to some of the general editors for code. By which I mean that if one enters { it automatically adds }, or < generates > also. Or if I enter {Label M -- the drop down for M includes only valid labels beginning with M ... and the WHERE is automatically generated and attribute values are limited to ... You get the idea

Sounds familiar. I'm not saying that's a design we're necessarily considering, though. That's an old, old post.

Posts 299
Fabian | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 8 2022 2:39 AM

See here https://community.logos.com/forums/p/199019/1154916.aspx#1154916

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Mark Barnes (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 8 2022 2:44 AM

Fabian:

See here https://community.logos.com/forums/p/199019/1154916.aspx#1154916

If I've understood that post correctly, your suggestion is that autocomplete only suggests words that can be found in the resource(s) you're searching in and doesn't make suggestions that would give zero results.

Posts 299
Fabian | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 8 2022 2:51 AM

Yes. At least as an option. 

Today. The autocomplete doesn't find it. Or I don't know how to do it. Bibles and other texts have often  their unique words. Nebukadnezzar, Nebucadnezar etc. I know in English they are mostly standardized, but not in German, Italian etc. So the autocomplete should make suggestion which is actually in the resource which is open. And it should find it which is not the case today. 

Posts 299
Fabian | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 8 2022 3:52 AM

For example the ESV. The word "barren" is in the text but it doesn't come up. Sorry I cannot upload the image.

And for PBB's there is no indexing at all.

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 8 2022 4:12 AM

Fabian:
For example the ESV. The word "barren" is in the text but it doesn't come up.

Strange. I see it suggested and Search finds the 20 hits

Image


Fabian:
And for PBB's there is no indexing at all.

That's not how Logos normally works. Something seems to be broken with the indexes on your installation.

Running Logos 9 latest (beta) version on Win 10

Posts 299
Fabian | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 8 2022 4:22 AM

Yes if you type the full word, but not if you type "barr". So the suggestion doesn't work. I get "barricade" and "barrenness" as suggestion but not "barren".

To the second point. I have since then installed a few updates. Non has fixed it. Are you sure it works? I have tested it with the Greek Quran I made and the Volxbibel. 

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 8 2022 4:36 AM

Fabian:
Yes if you type the full word, but not if you type "barr". So the suggestion doesn't work. I get "barricade" and "barrenness" as suggestion but not "barren".

It's different for me (both Verbum 9.11 SR-1 and Logos 9.12 Beta 4 under English UI)

Image

but I see what you mean when I use bible search in ESV in a German language UI - seems like a bug for Ben Misja and his team.

Running Logos 9 latest (beta) version on Win 10

Posts 299
Fabian | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 8 2022 5:01 AM

On Mac I have it on the English UI too. 

If I type "Glau", the suggestion is only "<>Glaucus Datatype". None of the German VolxBibel PBB words coming up. Also from the LSV Bible is nothing in the search entry as a suggestion.

I have to say I imported it as the German UI was active. 

Posts 299
Fabian | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 8 2022 5:01 AM

On Mac I have it on the English UI too. 

If I type "Glau", the suggestion is only "<>Glaucus Datatype". None of the German VolxBibel PBB words coming up. Also from the LSV Bible is nothing in the search entry as a suggestion.

I have to say I imported it as the German UI was active. 

Posts 299
Fabian | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 8 2022 5:39 AM

Hello Mark

O.K. First I'm on Mac and use German UI.

To point 1: On the German UI (or maybe all other non English UI), the suggestion are buggy. Need to be fixed.

To point 2: Even in the English UI I have no suggestions by PBB! Need a Fix or improvement.

In the past I have tested to use the search only to Greek in my Greek Quran. But I got suggestions for words which are not in the Quran and the words in the Quran was not popping up. That was the reason for the post in the thread I linked above. So totally useless, only if you want to search Logos for that word it was good. But the actual resource was not listed.

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Philana R. Crouch | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 10 2022 4:47 PM

Fabian:

Yes. At least as an option. 

Today. The autocomplete doesn't find it. Or I don't know how to do it. Bibles and other texts have often  their unique words. Nebukadnezzar, Nebucadnezar etc. I know in English they are mostly standardized, but not in German, Italian etc. So the autocomplete should make suggestion which is actually in the resource which is open. And it should find it which is not the case today. 

Hi Fabian,

I'm not able to reproduce this. Can you let me know what Bible's beyond the ESV where you are seeing this?

Posts 3574
Beloved Amodeo | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 10 2022 5:32 PM

Mark Barnes (Faithlife):

Hello everyone,

We'd love your help in understanding how we can improve Logos search. Could you spare five minutes to answer seven questions about one of the ways we're thinking of improving search? Your participation will help us improve Logos for everyone.

Thank you!

Having read some of the comments, I'm going to go against the grain a bit and comment before I complete the questionnaire and then come back and comment after I've interacted with the questions. I am totally unfamiliar with autocomplete. I would have to research how to use this functionality. I'm fairly active on the forums, do quite a bit of watching in the background and cull through the posts discriminatingly. Thus, I'm surprised that I am unfamiliar with this feature. I use search quite a lot in my daily Logos regimen. 

I can't say I would or would not use this device. At this point my opinion of it is guarded since I have not been introduced to its possible advantages. Now, having said all this, I will now take the questionnaire.

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.

MacBook Pro macOS Big Sur 11.6 1TB SSD 

Posts 3574
Beloved Amodeo | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 10 2022 5:56 PM

Oh Yeah, I do know what autocomplete is and I use it regularly to fill in Greek and Hebrew words/lemmas. Past that I find it regularly unhelpful. It never seems offer the assistance I need in Basic Search.

KS4J is my autocompleter! BTW I haven't seen him posting lately, I do pray he's well. Bible Browser is very helpful. If you could develop a tool for Basic Search that was similarly productive it may fill the bill. 

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.

MacBook Pro macOS Big Sur 11.6 1TB SSD 

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