I'm interested in your feedback on our new web forums.
Do you prefer this to the NNTP newsgroups? Are there advantages/disadvantages?
Yay, forums! Particularly with RSS feeds and especially if the "Search this site" box (above right) is quick.
I really like the newsgroups because my email program (Thunderbird) gets all the headers automatically while I'm doing other work and arranges threads very nicely. I've yet to see a web post system that has a good thread navigation system and is as fast as the newsreader for finding and displaying interesting threads and knowing when someone has responded to my post or added a new one to a thread I'm interested in. I'm open to finding it, but if this is like the many other web posting systems I've used, I will end up not using it very often for the reasons I've given.
I didn't like the sign-in throwing me into the Logos.com web site and having to use the Back button to get here. Presumably all the forum management features are THERE, but this needs to be done via the forum pages.
I hope pictures (avatars?) are not mandatory as I dislike even that much personalisation.
Let's see what this (Quick Reply) looks like with a picture of my TV.
I like forums, access from any browser, no newsreader needed. I also like the new "look and feel" that emulates the style of the new videos. Very bright, clean, and uncluttered, I'm looking forward to the style being adapted on the other company websites.
Paul
Initial impression, this seems nice enough. I like the newsgroups but there are advantages to doing things on the web. In the end I think the web forums will better serve more people, and thus far the implementation of them appears to be good.
I lost the TV after inserting it in my original message and then couldn't find a way to inset text after loading the image! This needs a solution!
Dave
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(couldn't get the === to not be a paragraph. What are the HTML tags?)
I still prefer the newsgroups. So much less real estate to navigate for the same information. As another poster, said, navigating the newsgroups is much easier. I also use Thunderbird and check the newsgroups as often as I check my email. I'm sure I'll use the forums less than the newsgroups. I hope the newsgroups stay.
Don't mind me, just testing something
Applause for trying something new.
Willing to give it a try. The adavantage is I can view from any computer connected to the web. I switched to Chrome. Explorer is blocking me.
I've used forums for news with other software companies. I can certainly get used to them with Logos. And, that the login is already set to know me when I got here is a plus.
I have enjoyed the threads view in OE, and the ability to view years of messages. I hope we'll be able to retain this archieve feature. I just ignore the spammers -- they're a nuisance, but I can kill file them and that's it (except that last batch that used a slightly different iteration of the login for each section of the newsgroups. Since they have to login to the forums, I would hope we could keep these children out of forums.
I don't see the validity of the complaints of having to have a reader -- maybe the Mac community doesn't have one readily available, and perhaps Windose users don't like M$ software -- but since OE (and even LiveMail now) have been built into the basic OS software (at some level) for (literally) years -- well, that dog just don't hunt. I've been able to access the newsgroups anywhere I have been, at home, on the road, at my kid's place.
I think the new forum system is simply an admition that we've move beyond the technology of 15 plus years ago. And, I guess even for us old heads, it's time to come a bit into the 21st c.
Just my two cents, but as always Bob, thanks for asking
Blessings -- Dale
P.S. I'd sure like to have a way to change the default "EMail me..." caveat at the end -- I doubt I'd ever want that, and I'd hate to think I have to manually un/deselete this option every time
Go for it Bob. Easier to get to from multiple locations when travelling.
Keep it up.
Your stuff just keeps getting better!
Just a test with a short video.
0763.f-35inharrowingordeal.wmv
P.S. I'd sure like to have a way to change the default "EMail me..." caveat at the end -- I doubt I'd ever want that, and I'd hate to think I have to manually un/deselete this option every time Agreeded Dale. Let the unchecked one be the default.
Agreeded Dale. Let the unchecked one be the default.
Great to see the change from the newsgroups to the forums. Very happy.
Terrible. Way too slow to navigate. Deliver us from this evil, Lord!
At the top of the page next to your username their is an edit button, click on it and you will be presented with various profile and site options. In the site options there is a couple of options related to e-mails. Not sure if they will do what we are wanting here but I have unchecked them .... In these options you can set up things like fonts, signatures , timezones,date format., whether or not you want to be seen in the members list and whether or not you want your avatar displayed ect.
I personally prefer NNTP newsgroups, as they are very efficient. HOWEVER, a web based newsgroup will encourage wider participation of Logos users. NNTP is a little bit on the techie side and many users have never used USENET type news, but on the other hand everyone who has an internet connection pretty much knows how to use a browser.
Good job Logos! This is a great day to see this finally going!
Thank you Bob for asking. I got used to newsgrougs way but I think web-based forums are more usual for more people. I have no problem with it. It looks nice here and I hope all guys from newsgroups will move here. I would miss them very much [:)]
Have a great day.
Bohuslav
Wonderful idea wish you had done it sooner it is the way to go.
Stephen Schultz
For me, the forum approach is far better. Just don't make me add my picture.[:)]
You can change many things in your profile and also in the setup of the site (or how they call that). I did. Have a great day.
FWIW -- the video link shows up when I accessed the forum but the link appears to be dead
Dale
FWIW = video humbnail appears, but the link appears to be dead
I like both, but I love the fact that the post can be sent via RSS.
Iagree
I'm interested in your feedback on our new web forums. Do you prefer this to the NNTP newsgroups? Are there advantages/disadvantages?
What I do not likeabout forums is that all the responses are displayed sequentially. Using newsgroup, we can see who responded to whom and was able to followthe conversation. With everything being listed sequentially, the conversationalportion is lost.
My issues with the use of the forum have already been posted. But a decision will have to be made wrt use of the newsgroups. I would start to close down the less frequently used ones ASAP e.g. all the lbx.xxx ones, test, wiki, logos2x, Setup - until only General, Suggestions, Beta and Macintosh remain! Then you must decide when you (Logos) stop posting announcements in Beta and close that down!
Think about moving all the Suggestions into the web forum and then close that down! Likewise with Macintosh.
Finally, close General [8o|]
I prefer the newsgroup format, much better. I like opening my Windows Mail and go down to the news reader section and read the ones that I like to read and response.
For me it is a big NO!
God BlessGeorgeT
I greatly appreciate the change, for now I can post my thoughts. I have read the newsgroups for years, but whenever I tried to post a comment, either I wasn't able to do so (technical problems), or (once I thought I got it working) I was afraid of releasing my email address into the land of spammers. So, though it may be more cumbersome a medium, I feel now empowered to join in the conversation and add my $.02 when appropriate.
One of the reasons that I do not like the forums is that invalid statistics are being posted. Here are the forums that I see available:
As you can see, the stats at the bottom of the image report 21 threads. I only see the five threads listed under "Threads/Posts". If there are more than the four forums listed here, that might explain the descripancy - but I cannot find additional forums.
Back to the newsgroups - I hope.
Yours because His,
Floyd
Hmmm. Not bad, not bad at all. It's very similar to the only othermessage board I use so personally it won't be hard for me to getused to.
You do need a way to link directly to the last page of athread though (a "Last Reply" link). Most people just want to see newreplies once a thread gets going and those extra steps required(linking to the top of the thread and then navigating with the pagebuttons at the bottom) are kind of annoying.
You need a spellcheck as well. I don't know about you but I don't want people knowing what a horrible speller I am.
As I mentioned in the NG, I think anytime you respond to a comment, the comment is treated as a new thread. I'm responding to your comment, so it will create a new thread.
Making it a little harder to determine if that's correct, the stats don't update automatically. It appears they update every few minutes rather than with every post.
A few comments on first use.
Advantages:
Disadvantages/ Questions
Hello
yes, I normally prefer forum to newsgroup
There's a "sign in & redirect to forum" trouble which someone else already mentioned .... the problem could perhaps be easily solved by making sure that the list of links to various areas of the Logos website which is located at the top left corner is the same in all areas of the website (because currently the link to "forums" is missing on the sign-in page and the main section of the Logos website.
I also have difficulties to read the forum "as is" with the current default font-size and theme ... will need to check out if there are options in the personal profile for making adjustments to achieve better readability
Thanks for making forums available
Cheers,
Wolfgang
Okay, I tried. How do you set this up as an RSS feed? I tried clicking the RSS at the bottom of the page and it doesn't seem to do anything.
Thanks in advance.
I posted this by posting a reply to Rick Brannan's post re RSS feeds. But it was put at the end of the list. I'll have to check to see if "view by threaded" is an option (sure hope so).
Being able to edit your own posts is an advantage over NNTP
BTW, selecting "preview" and then returning to a previous page by the browser "Back" button, kicks you out of the editing window and you loose all your formatting.
I find that the web page in defined in a manner that forces me to either widen my window or scroll horizontally. I much prefer pages that don't have any fixed widths.
After playing around and trying to make this work a bit more the way I'd like it to, I want to share some continuing observations:
Disadvantages:
One obvious difference is that in Thunderbird, I can quickly scan a threaded discussion list, and visually determine how the discussion is moving. I can't seem to find a way to sort these posts by thread. (Filter: "Threaded by Author" doesn't seem to change anything.) The last post goes to the bottom regardless of to whom the poster is responding. Clunky.
Too few posts on one page, with no way to change this.
Each post uses up considerably more screen real estate than an NNTP post.
I can set Thunderbird to check for new posts every 'n' minutes. I may be able to do that with RSS feeds too (though I haven't been able to get them to work yet).
In Thunderbird I have a setting to mark all posts from logos.com as bold & red. That way I can easily see an official response/post in the middle of a discussion, or an official announcement, query, etc., from Logos. I don't see a way to do this here.
With breeches in the newsgroups recently, I'm concerned that eventually we may see a jpeg displayed that we ought not to see. At least with most NNTP readers, you have to choose to view the picture.
You can edit your own posts. That's pretty cool.
Probably easier for some (most) people to participate.
You can make your posts look prettier (which could also be listed under disadvantages for some.)
What do I prefer?
For me, NNTP is a simpler and more elegant way to go. The fact that some people can't use this simple technology that's been around since before web browsers baffles me. It's as easy to setup and use as email. What's the problem? Then again, more people use MSWord than WordPerfect too (which though behind in some respects (unicode,e.g.) is still way ahead in others).
There are a few software companies that only have forums (no NNTP groups). I hardly use them -- mostly because it just takes too much time to find anything useful. I am quite certain that my use of these groups will diminish greatly, if Logos switches to a forums only approach.
Please keep the NNTP groups for the 1st year with the forums and see how it goes. Maybe "both and" will be a better solution than "either, or."
Help Needed:
I looked at my options for my profile and I really don't know what some of the options are.
Under "Profile Options:"
What might I put in the "Gallery" box -- and why would that be helpful in these groups?
What happens if I put an email address in my Public Email box? Does this make it available to anyone on this group, or is it open to a larger public audience?
What are shared RSS feeds? And why would I want to share them, or know about anyone else's RSS feeds?
Under "Site Options:"
What is the difference between a Standard and and Enhanced Content Editor?
What does "Display in members list?" mean? Display what?
What are "Mouse-over Popups?"
What Panels are Collapsible?
What does "Enable Conversation/Comment Notifications" actually do that's different from the Email notifications below?
Why doesn't the "Items per-Page in Control Pallen grids" seem to change anything? (I'd love to see 100 posts per page, rather than the default 15 or so, since loading a new screen takes too much time).
Under Email Configuration:
How does "Receive Emails" differ from "Send Notifications?"
One problem with the newsgroups is that you won't get any feedback or questions from the less techie masses. Another problem with NNTP is that if you want to search the newsgroups in your reader for a topic previously discussed, you have to download ALL of the discussions for the past WHO KNOWS how long. Not a problem for those nerds (a proud label [;)]) who are on the newsgroups every day. But it's not really feasible for those who rarely check in from time to time or pop on to find an answer.
It's funny and ironic to find tech-nerd dinosaurs. [read in a shaky cartoon old man voice] "Back in my day, we did just fine with NNTP. We didn't need all your fancy formatting and pictures. We used our imaginations. AND WE LIKED IT!" I bet some people are still eagerly hanging on to boxes of punch cards, just waiting for Y2K to strike again. I'm sure I'll be there some day.
I say, "more success to web forums!"
With that said, I think at least one thing on the web forum could be made a bit clearer. Instead of having to reply to a specific post in a thread, there should be a general "post reply" box at the bottom of the page.
Awkward to use . . . hardto discern threads and pick and choose posets to read or ignore
I initially would agree that I prefer the Newsgroup. Perhaps it's simply inertia or maybe it has something to do with the fact that I can see all the other topics while I'm responding to one.
What about the Firefox spellchecker? It works quite well.
I was streaming KING-FM when I decided to try your test. Either they had a glitch in their program or I like your music. I tend to think it was a problem with KING though since they've been having problems all day.
No problem getting logged in.
I really liked the video. I'm not sure yet that I like this forum. Seems much more difficult to navigate than other forums I visit regularly.
Jack
Cool video.. this seems to be working. Will just have to get used to the change.
Jim
Can someone tell me where the "edit your own post" button is?
How do I delete my own post?
May be I am blind .... but as a regular user of various other forums which use different open source forum software, I am rather confused with this forum software
This forum has all kinds of "whistles and bells", but seems rather user unfriendly
But then ... maybe I am just blind and my monitor screen size isn't big enough to get all those things up on a screen
Currently, I am rather disappointed
Wolfgang,
You can edit your posts by clicking the "More" button next to the "Reply" button at the top of the page. I don't see an option to delete.
