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Rob | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Jul 14 2009 4:37 PM

This is a copy of the current license that is displayed in our software.

The short version is this: "The license goes with the user. Every user must purchase their own package. If you have a work machine and a laptop and they are both yours for your personal use, you may load it on both for your personal use - because the license goes with the user." Can you purchase one package and have two people use it? No. The license goes with the user. The license is a single user license.

All licenses are single human being licenses. We do not offer site-licenses, shared licenses, co-op licenses, library licenses or multi-user licenses. A church or company may be the purchaser and thus legal owner of the license grant, but may only allow one human being to be the beneficiary of this license grant.

I'm confused, this license agreement allows:

...two separate personal computers as long as only one is used at a time.

And am I reading this right?

One person, only the licensed person may use the software. Any other person, including a spouse, children, fellow pastors, curious friends who wish to use the software in the absence of the licensee would do so illegally.

Rob

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Ronald Quick | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 14 2009 4:57 PM

I use Logos on my desktop and laptop.  My wife avoids computers like the plague and my daughter is only 3, so I am the only user.

It's my guess that limiting the license to the individual is to avoid my putting logos on 2 computers, but someone else is the primary user.

It's still a good question that I'm sure applies to others.  I would also be interested in the answer.

Ron

 

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 14 2009 5:36 PM

RQuanstrom:

And am I reading this right?

 

One person, only the licensed person may use the software. Any other person, including a spouse, children, fellow pastors, curious friends who wish to use the software in the absence of the licensee would do so illegally.    

I'm not a lawyer but it does appear to prohibit immediate family members living in the home to make use of it when the licensed owner is not at the computer.

I recently queried in another forum post (Logos on Kindle, I think).....

Do dual boot systems like MacOs/Windows constitute two installations?
What about "cloud computing?"
What about users who have a church office desktop, home desktop & a laptop for trips?

Then there are those titles useful for homeschooling that contain actual lessons:
Nehemiah Institute Worldview Collection
WallBuilders American Foundations Digital Library
The Christian History Library
by F.A.C.E.
Is it illegal to use allow your highschooler to use these titles?

I appreciate the need for Logos to remain profitable. The base packages are an incredible value. If there is no income there can be no product. I've seen bootleg software, on eBay, of Quickverse, Biblesoft, Wordsearch and even Bibleworks. Piracy can wipe out a company. Logos has to do a balancing act between usability and vulnerability. So far I feel they have been more than fair to licensed users. But the current wording of the EULA does appear to forbid several good uses.

(I'm still wondering how someone buys illegal Bible study software. OR steals a Bible at church. I have seen both occur.)

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 14 2009 5:57 PM

RonaldQuick:

I use Logos on my desktop and laptop.  My wife avoids computers like the plague and my daughter is only 3, so I am the only user.

It's my guess that limiting the license to the individual is to avoid my putting logos on 2 computers, but someone else is the primary user.

It's still a good question that I'm sure applies to others.  I would also be interested in the answer.

Ron

 

Ron,

I have my desktop & laptop installations too. My wife , like yours, avoids computers. I have 10 children still at home but I don't take a chance allowing them to mess up my desktop. And I am using my "Bible Study" laptop over 8 hours a day making it impossible for others to use that Logos installation.

I imagine Logos is trying to avoid having a community accessible computer in a church library where the whole staff is sharing one license. Another blatant violation of the spirit and letter of the EULA is somebody selling their laptop with a complete install with licenses synchronized. I have seen this happen on eBay with Wordsearch.

Another possible violation is using a projector in a Bible study group to show a lesson with notes & references.  Would creating a Powerpoint presentation with Logos gathered material be legal? Morris Proctor might have special permission but do you?  There are so many questions.

 

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Posts 150
Jim Dean | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 14 2009 6:02 PM
The licensed owner IS allowed to use libronix for teaching purposes, such as with a projector in a class or church service. Why? Because the licensed owner is controlling the software. If the owner is contolling the software to teach their children, it's the same idea. Keep two things in mind: 1. It is not terribly expensive to buy additional copies of the software, at a lower level, for others to use 2. It is possible to transfer the licenses to other users I frankly think that L has made a sincere attempt to be both clear and fair in their licensing practices, particularly when you consider the packaging discounts. They could have chosen a different path - to allow for a license where different people could use a single license, but only one person at a time. This would be helpful for "church library" and "family" applications, and I hope they will seriously consider making that possible. A simple internet-activation link would allow for policing it. In the meantime, however, THEY DO HAVE THE RIGHT TO DEFINE IT HOWEVER THEY WISH, and I believe it is incumbent on us to respect that. Over the years, I have purchased about a half-dozen licenses, because of this.

=============
Redeeming the time (Eph.5:16+Col.4:5) ...
Jim Dean

Posts 176
Rob | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 14 2009 6:34 PM

A couple of years ago, during the Libronix Bus Tour, they told us that family members were allowed to share the software.

It helped me 'close the deal' toward purchasing a larger library since my wife could also use it when she wanted to study something.

She's been slooowly learning the software over the past few years.  Now I find that she's an ille-gal.

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 14 2009 6:41 PM

JimDean:
They could have chosen a different path - to allow for a license where different people could use a single license, but only one person at a time. This would be helpful for "church library" and "family" applications, and I hope they will seriously consider making that possible.

I don't know the details on this, but I think they must have a site license of some type since I know that some seminaries use Logos.  I don't know how it works, but I'd almost wager that there is some form of a site license.  BTW:  This statement and my dollars and doughnut holes statements might be misunderstood -- especially by this group -- so I'll put a disclaimer here:  I never bet on anything, not even if it's a sure thing.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 14 2009 6:50 PM

JimDean:
The licensed owner IS allowed to use libronix for teaching purposes, such as with a projector in a class or church service.

I did not know that!  Although I don't have need of that capability, it is good to know.

JimDean:
If the owner is controlling the software to teach their children, it's the same idea. Keep two things in mind: 1. It is not terribly expensive to buy additional copies of the software, at a lower level, for others to use

I didn't know that either! Guess I will have to call CS to inquire. I hope more of my kids will find the computer useful for Bible study.

As far as the staff at my church; I don't know what the individual preachers use since you rarely hear their sources from the pulpit (must be that preacher plagiarism issue.) I do know they do excellent preparation. I find they frequently bring up details I learned through my use of Logos. Many of the staff are also Bible college professors so I would be surprised if they don't have Logos.

JimDean:
Over the years, I have purchased about a half-dozen licenses

I have purchased several different releases of Logos dating back to the floppy-disk registration days.but never actually upgraded. Even when I went from Scholar Silver to Gold, I sold one license and purchased another. (I just handled  the $99 transfer receipt today.) Logos has been very good at making this affordable. I don't have a "library allowance." I can't write-off the investment on my taxes. I am on a small, fixed retirement income. Still I have a software solution I could never have dreamed of owning.

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Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 14 2009 8:08 PM

RQuanstrom:

A couple of years ago, during the Libronix Bus Tour, they told us that family members were allowed to share the software.

It helped me 'close the deal' toward purchasing a larger library since my wife could also use it when she wanted to study something.

She's been slooowly learning the software over the past few years.  Now I find that she's an ille-gal.

It will be a sad day if my wife cannot use my Logos digital Library. I can share every other thing with her except Logos, i am not sure how this fits in with the vows i made before God to share all my earthly possession with her. I am not sure European courts will agree with this and most will agree that their wives through great sacrifices and their own personal investment have allowed their husbands to purchase Logos bible software.

I for one do not think this is reasonable or practical, we have been here before so i shall hold my peace & give Logos the benefit of the doubt. I do think that Logos should clarify this matter.

 

Ted

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Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 14 2009 9:26 PM

Matthew C Jones:

I imagine Logos is trying to avoid having a community accessible computer in a church library where the whole staff is sharing one license. Another blatant violation of the spirit and letter of the EULA is somebody selling their laptop with a complete install with licenses synchronized. I have seen this happen on eBay with Wordsearch.

Fair enough, i do agree with the above comments. I don't think the whole staff in a church should be sharing one license. 

Do Logos not have the option for group or institutional licenses at a higher price than individual purchases?  My wife works in a school & they will have to purchase network licenses in addition to individual software packages if they want to make resources available to the whole school network, or even a part of it, rather than just on an individual PC.  The licenses cost more depending on the size of the school or the number of PCs that will be able to access the software at one time.  In other words a church with 5 pastors sharing access to Logos would pay perhaps double the cost of the normal purchase price, but not 5 times the amount & they would own it as a church resource, not personally.  ie. if one of those pastors left to move to a different church they would not take Logos with them.  It would belong to the church, not the individual pastors.  The church would then make it available to it's staff / volunteers etc depending on what level of license access it purchased.

Ted

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Floyd Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 14 2009 9:37 PM

Matthew C Jones:
I imagine Logos is trying to avoid having a community accessible computer in a church library where the whole staff is sharing one license. Another blatant violation of the spirit and letter of the EULA is somebody selling their laptop with a complete install with licenses synchronized. I have seen this happen on eBay with Wordsearch.

That is what I would think - but I know that the library where my wife and I worked for many years had LOGOS materials in its collection - I don't know how they managed that?

Floyd

Blessings,
Floyd

Pastor-Patrick.blogspot.com

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 14 2009 9:51 PM

Floyd Johnson:

Matthew C Jones:
I imagine Logos is trying to avoid having a community accessible computer in a church library where the whole staff is sharing one license. Another blatant violation of the spirit and letter of the EULA is somebody selling their laptop with a complete install with licenses synchronized. I have seen this happen on eBay with Wordsearch.

That is what I would think - but I know that the library where my wife and I worked for many years had LOGOS materials in its collection - I don't know how they managed that?

Floyd

 

I haven't seen that with Logos software but all across America colleges abuse the Fair Use doctrine of the copyright law. They photocopy a whole textbook (current edition) and sell it in their bookstore at retail prices for class use with the "fair use" notice in the front cover. That is clearly abuse. Many people today think nothing of copying music, software or movies. When I worked in the library at Bible college and we never had anything duplicated. Of course we didn't have students on computers in the 70's. Geeked

I'm happy to say our church buys that annual license "thingy" for using photocopied music in the choir.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 14 2009 10:46 PM

Ted Hans:
It will be a sad day if my wife cannot use my Logos digital Library.

Provided you have only one wife i.e. you need 2 licences for 2 wives and their children Big Smile

I have 5 Operating systems on two computers but I am the single user of those computers (my wife uses  the older Logos 2.x on her computer). I do  a lot of installations of Libronix because I periodically re-install two of the OS's. But I follow the spirit of the EULA where it states " the Software and Content are in use on only one computer at any time." and "that person may also use the Software and Content on a portable or home computer." But this wording should be revised because one computer is assumed to be a work computer, whilst both are mine for personal use -  somewhat contradictory.

Also think about this, if I define a new User on my computer they also get to use Libronix, so it is installed for all users not just the primary user/admin ...

Dave
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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 14 2009 11:36 PM

Dave Hooton:
Also think about this, if I define a new User on my computer they also get to use Libronix, so it is installed for all users not just the primary user/admin

You know you could install it so only YOU can use it.  But even with security measures two of my kids have hacked into my side before.   Left HugComputerRight Hug

 

I finally had to get my kid brother (Amazon.com ISP security wiz) to really secure the computer.Yes

 

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 15 2009 3:37 AM

Matthew C Jones:
You know you could install it so only YOU can use it.

The point was that Logos permit that to happen - they could fix it with Vista/Win7 so it installs only for the primary user.

Matthew C Jones:
I finally had to get my kid brother (Amazon.com ISP security wiz) to really secure the computer.

Even with strong Admin passwords and your children restricted to Standard/Limited accounts, they can change their account to an Admin!

Dave
===

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Jim Dean | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 15 2009 3:48 AM

If you REALLY want to secure your computer ... ie not allow access to your work by anyone else ... use a removable hard drive.  One for you ... another for everyone else.  Keep yours in a safe ... C4 also acts as an effective deterrent.Zip it!

=============
Redeeming the time (Eph.5:16+Col.4:5) ...
Jim Dean

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 15 2009 5:12 AM

JimDean:
use a removable hard drive

Ah, yes! The answer to teen rebellion in the household --> "please can i have the hard drive to hack!" Smile

But the point was not to protect my/your work as to restrict the children's access to certain programs.

Dave
===

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Floyd Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 15 2009 5:22 AM

JimDean:
C4 also acts as an effective deterrent.

 I think it was Mark Twain who said he would keep put teen agers into a barrel and feed them with through holes in the sides of the barrels.  When they turned 18, he would fill up the holes.  Having raised three sons, I can understand his sentiment.

Before my wife and I were married I wanted two children and she wanted four.  That is absolutely true.  So we compromised - now we don't want any.Wink  That thought came to me in a Sunday School class some 28 years ago.

Blessings,

Floyd

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Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 15 2009 10:08 AM

Dave Hooton:

Ted Hans:
It will be a sad day if my wife cannot use my Logos digital Library.

Provided you have only one wife i.e. you need 2 licences for 2 wives and their children Big Smile

Hi Dave,

 What bible do you use? An interesting one i can see Big Smile talk about a death wish, an early grave. A voice would be heard weeping with loud lamentation in the Logos forum saying Ted is no more & his mother refuses to be comforted but his wives are glad that he is gone for they have killed him.Sad

Sir T.

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 15 2009 11:02 AM

Post withdrawn.

george
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