Black Friday Sale

Page 5 of 7 (128 items) « First ... < Previous 3 4 5 6 7 Next >
This post has 127 Replies | 0 Followers

Posts 2335
mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 25 2011 7:50 PM

I let my sales person at Logos figure out how to apply my recent book purchases to anything redundant in the Master bundle. I'm indexing now on one box and downloading on my other. Other than a couple of pre-pubs that I'm signed up for, I think that pretty much will mean "Just say no" for awhile. 

The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter

Posts 1355
Edwin Bowden | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 25 2011 8:33 PM

Michael Childs:

I feel certain that Logos marketing only follows the secular pattern, which means they are deceptive.  I understand that companies aren't Christian.  People are.  But Christians in business should not allow the world to set the standard for their honesty.  It is a poor witness to be deceptive, whether everyone else deceives or not.  Logos is no more, and sadly no less, deceptive than any other company, including other Christian book sellers.

I also believe that Logos is a company founded and owned by fine Christian people, who run it both as a business and a ministry.  I have been a Logos customer over 16 years and will be one for the rest of my life.  I do not think they set out be deceptive in their advertising and promotions.  I think they slipped gradually into deceptive practices that are the rule of thumb in their industry.  I do not believe they have thought through the implications of it all.

Since I have been a Logos customer so long and have invested thousands of dollars beyond my base package, I am not likely to go away.  And since I am incredibly hard-headed and a little arrogant, I am not likely to stop complaining if I believe deception is being attempted.  But I will try to do so less frequently.

I continue to recommend Logos to my fellow ministers and church members as the best Bible software available.  Though I now have to warn them to watch out for the deceit in the advertising.

You (and others) have used some strong, harsh and (in my mind) inaccurate language about Logos and their marketing.

1. I do not believe that Logos has not thought through their marketing approach.

They have been at this for a long time. They are astute business people and understand how standard business practices operate in the modern world. Most products go through several hands before reaching the retail customer. Each step requires a margin for it to be able to operate. It is a long established business standard that a manufacturer's suggested retail price (MSRP) is set for products as a uniform reference point.

Can you imagine the confustion if there were no MSRP on products? Some items sell for full MSRP almost without exception. Some have temporary sale prices (reductions from MSRP). Some limited availability items actually are sold for more than MSRP.

The original print publisher establishes a MSRP for their titles. Logos uses this as a standard reference. If you were to buy the print version, instead of an electronic version, the MSRP would be $XX.XX. Most bookstores sell at that price. If you are looking for an out of print title, you may have to pay more than MSRP. Online and discount stores may have the title for less.

I often see in this forum, customers referencing online discounters' prices as if they were the standard. They are not the standard. They are the exception.

2. Fortunately for Logos customers, Logos often has titles for less than MSRP of the print edition, while also providing the added benefit of added Logos features. Logos also frequently is able to offer temporary pricing that is less than their usual price. Each customer has to determine what the item is worth to them. If it is worth the price offered, buy it. If it is not, don't.

3. I agree that the buying decision is easier when Logos shows us all 3 prices (MSRP, the usual Logos price, and the sale price).

We should be careful in judgment of the motivation and intent of Logos. They are a vaulable resource to thousands in ministry around the world.

Posts 190
EmileB | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 25 2011 10:41 PM

Hi Edwin!

Thanks for your post... I believe it adds to the discussion and the thought process. I wouldn't necessarily respond, except that I feel there may be an error in what some of us "intend" to be saying about others, and also that the primary point still is being missed.

I agree that we should be "careful in judgment of the motivation and intent of Logos." That being said, I don't think that is what anyone intends to do. I hope I have bent over backwards in my posts to express quite the contrary. Please reread them. I can certainly affirm that is not what is in my heart, and I don't think that is in the heart of others.

Your reply itself speaks volumes to me, and I suspect to others. "They are astute business people and understand how standard business practices operate in the modern world." If "standard business practices" operating in the modern world are our standards, then may God help us! We should be wiser than such standards, and more honest than those standards.

And that is precisely the point. I have been, at one time, a Christian businessman, and I do understand the issues. And we are held to higher standards than the practices operating in the modern world. And sometimes that means I have to forgo certain practices that might bring in more sales or increase my profits, even if they would be considered perfectly ethical by the world at large. Pragmatism (in the sense of "what works to increase our sales") is not supposed to be our guide here. 

What Logos is doing would most certainly not be considered unethical from the perspective of modern business practices. But I believe, with Michael and others, that there has been a subtle yet perceivable drift to embrace modern marketing strategies. And some of those are (albeit in my strong opinion, unintentionally) deceptive. It actually grieves me more that fewer people are able to discern that, even in forums filled with pastors. I think both the drift and the lack of discernment are a sign that the Church at large has fallen increasingly asleep. These days, such approaches have pervaded the Church at large, the pulpit, worship... and Christian business practices. We have become desensitized to it, and they seem to be embraced too readily, without discernment.

Your arguments do make sense from a "modern business" perspective. However, some of the strength of the argument is lessened by the fact that Logos sets the price, for example, of public domain works.... that cost them nothing but their own labor/in-house expenses... which we are told are fully paid for through Community Pricing. To then set such a high "MSRP" on these items later as if that was a valid reference point seems unwarranted. Also, while as a businessman, I might try to recoup a larger profit margin for certain items to compensate for those that have a small profit margin in order to balance out my business and to continue operating (a legitimate practice), that doesn't mean that I should try to recoup that difference all at once. :-)  [I'm speaking here of public domain CP items, e.g., that jump from $20 at the close of CP to a $300 "discounted price" and $500 or more "retail", when expenses were theoretically met at $20... even allowing for the "value added", that seems quite a jump, especially when available elsewhere for free.].

 As a businessman, the MSRP I set has to have some basis in reality.... they are not chosen willy-nilly, but are based on market realities. I can't put a knick knack on the shelf and say, "I'm gonna put a MSRP on this puppy of a gazillion dollars." If nobody anywhere prices a MSRP for the same or a similar product at the same gazillion-dollar level, maybe we are just deluding ourselves, but in any case its not honest. We all seem to recognize that with the telemarketing/television ads or vacuum cleaner sales people we encounter, and we don't like it when we are at the receiving end of such hype and hyperbole. Why is it somehow deemed more straightforward and honest here? Just because they are Christian books, from a company run by Christian people? And then to say "My discount price of $ X is a 70% discount from the (gazillion dollar) MSRP!! So you should buy this!" is really fundamentally deceptive, and rather insulting to one's intelligence... neither of which are tacks encouraged by Scripture. And to say that this latter price is close to or less than what a competitor would charge doesn't negate the deceptiveness if the competitor isn't normally charging, or at least referencing, at or at least somewhat near the same mythical MSRP. And if Logos is the only one who even sells the item, it becomes even more questionable. Add to that to say later, "SALE!!! Now our product is at price "Y", representing a "savings" of 90%! Get it quick!" Savings from what??? It isn't a "savings" if no one anywhere pays such a fictional amount. It's actually only a "savings" of 20%. Not 90%. And if you don't buy, well then the price will go back to its original (20% higher) price when the sale is over. Otherwise, why not just price everything at a million dollars per volume, and then say that our "discounted price" is only $20... a savings of 99998%!!! And furthermore, we are going to offer a special "sale" for this weekend only, where you can actually "save" $999,990? WOW WHAT A DEAL!!!!!!!

Its not done because that would be too obvious, the game would be up. People would catch on to the gimmick, be offended, and not buy.

Can't you see the manipulativeness and deceptiveness in all of this?

But as I have tried to say so many times, its okay to have a different perspective. But would it really be that difficult, to simply make a few adjustments? Maybe some of us ARE overly and unnecessarily sensitive about this area. Okay. We will own that if you like. Nor do we question others motives or intents. But we do feel the PRACTICE is less than honest at best and manipulative/deceptive at worst, and that it isn't a very good witness (which is something we know the company cares about... they claim to anyway, and I take them at their word. So we are merely trying to express how they are coming across to some people in light of such stated concerns made by the company, for which they have encouraged our feedback).

Words mean what they mean, and we can't choose to make them mean what we want for our convenience (or to manipulate, even unintentionally). Let's not engage in word play or juggling the numbers to make things look or seem better than they really are, and that you are getting a better "deal" than you really are. That's where we see the dishonesty coming into play.

SO.... Here's what I propose, for what its worth. Why not simply change the "retail price" to "Suggested value"? That isn't disputable. That is honest. If Logos "values" the books at that price, fine. That is perfectly within their rights. (They can even choose to put an astronomical amount on their product "value" if they choose, although we also have the right to think that they are living in LaLa Land a few fries short of a happy meal. And those who take that approach usually don't last in business very long. "Value" has to be based on reality... reality is what something actually sells for, not what I wished it sold for.) But in any case, it isn't a genuine "retail" price, so let's not call it that. Then, what they actually charge on a day-in, day-out basis can be listed as "our price". And don't add the fantasy of "56% savings!" from a mythical retail value that neither they or anyone else retails it for. A "discount" means a reduction from the standard selling price... whatever games modern marketers chose to use. There is no "discount" involved, because the actual selling price is what it is all the time. Just be straightforward and honest and say simply "this is our price." Then when you do have an actual "sale", you can legitimately call it a sale... and then legitimately say "a savings of..." or "a discount of..." because its TRUE. And those of us with overly active consciences will feel better. Very little effort, and no harm done.

Would there be less sales for Logos this way? I rather doubt it. If there is resistance to using terminology that way, then that should be a red flag.

In any case, I support Logos' right to market how they want to market their products, and to price them how they wish. I am thankful for their vision, their character, and their product, and pray God's blessings upon them however they chose to respond/not respond to these concerns. I also support everyone else's right to have a different perspective or level of scruples on this debatable issue. As a customer, I'm also entitled to express my concerns, especially as this feedback has been invited and encouraged. I do not mean to insult or offend anyone, or judge anyone's intentions, motives, or Christian character, the nature or extent of their spiritual maturity, their salvation or their relationship with Jesus, or the moral character or ancestry of their mama.

With sincere love, grace and gratitude intended to all. Amen.

Posts 1931
Donovan R. Palmer | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 25 2011 11:44 PM

The MSRP debate has come up a number of times. For the end user, it's a pain to try to remember what it sold for the last time you looked at it. Yet, I doubt Logos is going to change this model as this has been going on for many years now.  I had not been able to find the price of the Tozer collection, so I really appreciate the poster that did that.

I do think one thing I hope Logos knows though both through this forum and purchases being made is that the offerings they have made during this Black Friday Sale have been good. I was really pleased to see the Spurgeon Collection go on sale for not much more than the original prepub price. Much could be said about the other offers depending on your needs and interests.  For loyal users, this gives an opportunity to pick up resources that you may have missed the first time around and I hope they keep doing this.

Posts 32
Carl Sanders | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 26 2011 10:49 AM

Super Tramp:

Fabrice de Almeida:
Btw how is it that God and the Future: Wolfhart Pannenberg's Eschatological Doctrine of God is $156 for ... 288 pages !? and Aquinas on Doctrine, $168 for ... 296 pages !? What is so special with these that they are so expensive? 

Aquinas on Doctrine is my favorite example of quirky pricing. It is super-expensive on it's own. I got it with the 2010 Christmas Master Collection for an average book price of $1.35, (I think.) It is one of those scholarly works that is priced like that on Amazon for the paper version. Could be a licensing issue. Confused

Fabrice de Almeida:
I just didn't make the link between the "Theology and Doctrine Collection" and its individual titles ... but now I got it! :-)

It would make it a lot easier for myself and Praiser if Logos would list the included Collections. I process information in sets. Logos does a very good job at grouping similar titles into specific categories, creating new "Collections" and bundles..

 

Those two resources (Pannenberg, Aquinas, and all in that particular collection) are from a publisher where every individual title is generally high-priced as they publish specialized works of somewhat limited interest (check the titles in print on other sites and you will the new prices are often high). The first one (hc) sells new at $180 (used about $70), though there are paperbacks out that are cheaper. The second is $165 new (hc) and $120 used; pb is almost $40. [Which suggests yet anoter question; is the retail the HC or the PB version?] So feel free to research - if you only need one or two in the series, you can probably do better with paper - but you lose the Logos integration. For me, shelf space is another issue.

Since theology is my primary discipline, I have bought some of this set at academic conferences when I could get academic discounts for print editions, but the Logos collections of these are actually very good deals as they bundle a bunch of expensive books and make them available at the price of  several in the set. If you are interested in relatively technical and academic works, these might be of interest. But they are specialized. I already bought this set myself (on Logos Academic discount) and considered it a very good deal. Which makes the current deal less attractive....

 

Posts 2831
Michael Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 26 2011 11:11 AM

Edwin Bowden:

You (and others) have used some strong, harsh and (in my mind) inaccurate language about Logos and their marketing.

1. I do not believe that Logos has not thought through their marketing approach.

They have been at this for a long time. They are astute business people and understand how standard business practices operate in the modern world. Most products go through several hands before reaching the retail customer. Each step requires a margin for it to be able to operate. It is a long established business standard that a manufacturer's suggested retail price (MSRP) is set for products as a uniform reference point.

My brother, I am sorry you feel that I "have used some strong, harsh and (in my mind) inaccurate language about Logos and their marketing."  You are certainly entitled to your opinion, and I respect that.  But I have say you are just wrong.

In fact, I have been very mild to use the term "deception" instead of "lie", and I have given specific examples of what I consider to be deception.  You are the expert on your opinion, and I am the expert on my opinion.  And in my opinion they have clearly been deceptive.

It is not the publisher that requires them to give a false % of the discount in their sale advertisements.  That is silly.  You are right in saying, "They are very astute business people," and deception in advertising sells.  I would prefer them to be more honest in their advertisements as to the amount that the every day price has been reduce in a sale, and certainly not make it difficult to find out. 

I also affirm that Logos is a great company, and its deceptive practices are pretty much standard operating procedure in the world.  I just wish their "righteousness exceded that of the other scribes..."  I am not impressed that others do it, too.   

I believe Logos is the best Bible software on the planet, and I believe that the company is overall operated as both a business and a ministry.  But I really don't like the way they mislead on the % of discount in sales.

I do not apologize for pointing out the turth that Logos practices deceptive advertising.  And I am very likely to do so again, even as I order more Logos products. 

We will just have to agree to disagree on this.  But I hope you had a great Thanksgiving!  

 

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 120
Steve Robinson | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 26 2011 11:29 AM

Michael Childs:

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, and I respect that.  

I do not apologize for pointing out the turth that Logos practices deceptive advertising.

We will just have to agree to disagree on this.  

I always find it interesting when someone presents their "opinion" as "truth." Not only demonstrates a certain lack of objectivity, but also a definite lack of wisdom... in my opinion.

Back on topic, as a lay-person in ministry, I still long for the type of bundles that were part of the original "Library Builders" packages several years back, parts of which, like the College Press NT Commentaries and the IVP NT Commentaries were discounted a bit this holiday season. As a result, I had to pass on this year's offerings (so far), as well, but do very much appreciate Logos discounting these bundles REGARDLESS of which benchmark one uses.

Steve R.

Posts 190
EmileB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 26 2011 1:13 PM

Golly, Steve! Do you really mean to imply that you hold opinions that you don't think are true? Why hold them? Must make for some interesting moral and epistemological gymnastics... ;-)

(please don't be offended... it is sincerely intended merely as a bit of humor... Although I do feel you got a bit personal towards Michael, which seemed a tad unnecessary as he was expressing his opinion about a company's business practices, and not a particular individual's integrity. But don't worry. It's only my opinion. So I wouldn't want to suggest or imply that it might be true. Let's make a deal. If you won't judge my opinions as being truth, I won't judge yours to be either, okay?)....

Sincere best wishes in Christ, brother!

 

Posts 120
Steve Robinson | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 26 2011 2:22 PM

EmileB:
Golly, Steve! Do you really mean to imply that you hold opinions that you don't think are true?

No offense taken! (Seriously!) Actually, Emile, I've expressed my opinion on Logos marketing approach before, sometimes in stark difference to their chosen method at the time. I just believe that there are very few situations where there is one right way of doing things in marketing electronic books (or anything else), just as there aren't in other areas of life, such as raising kids or worshiping God, (though good/better/best opinions abound). There are clearly wrong ways of doing anything, but there are many valid, effective ones. I express my opinions and I welcome others to express theirs with sincere mutual respect. However, to the point of my initial response to Micheal's statements, I also feel strongly that believers, especially, should be very careful about dropping the "t-word" in a dialog such as this, as knowing the truth about another person's actions and the motives behind them (and lets be honest, Michael is directing his comments to the people who make up Logos, not just to a "company") in pretty much any scenario seems, to me, somewhat presumptuous if not downright unwise.

Michael, Emile, et al - When it comes to your opinions, express away (although preferably humbly, constructively and to the people who can consider and correct any error in their judgment first). I will! But, please consider this: If a person doesn't want to get hung up on the word "truth" here, (in this discussion forum among a group primarily comprised of fellow followers of Christ), where else might they have similar challenges?

For what it's worth. Enjoy the day, Brothers & Sisters!

Steve R.

Added: Bottom line, it's not the "observations" that some people make regarding something Logos has done, as I sometimes agree with them, but the broad, general "conclusions" (the "truth") that are drawn from their perspective without knowing all the facts, the history and/or the people involved that concerns me. Nuff said! (My sincere apologies if this has been unconstructive to the dialog and/or if I've taken this thread further off topic.)

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 26 2011 3:38 PM

Donovan R. Palmer:
I need to know exactly how much it is going to cost me on Tuesday at the regular price which is never the full price.

I have the regular selling costs  for the Reference Bundle. These are not "suggested retail" costs. If this helps I can work the other bundles and post them.

Reference Bundle  Black Friday Sale pricing $399.95  Tuesday's pricing $1133.55

Individual titles:

$13.95 A Student's Guide to Textual Criticism of the Bible          
$79.95 Ancient Near Eastern Texts    
$44.95 Dictionary of Christianity in America 
$9.95 Historic Creeds and Confessions   
$129.95 International Standard Bible Encyclopedia
$89.95 The Dead Sea Scrolls Study Edition: Vol. I: 1Q1–4Q273–Vol. II: 4Q274–11Q31
$349.95 The Encyclopedia of Christianity, vols. 1–5

************************************************************************************
Early Church History Collection (7 vols.) $115

$29.95 A New Eusebius: Documents Illustrating the History of the Church to AD 337, 2nd ed.
$33.95  Creeds, Councils and Controversies: Documents Illustrating the History of the Church, AD 337–461, New Edition
$13.00 Worship in the Early Church
$16.00  A Short History of the Early Church
$34.00  The Religious Context of Early Christianity: A Guide to Graeco-Roman Religions
$29.99  New Testament Times
$6.48  Meet Paul: An Encounter with the Apostle

Eerdmans Bible Reference Collection (5 vols.) 89.95

$50.00  Old Testament Survey: The Message, Form, and Background of the Old Testament
 $9.95  A Basic Bibliographic Guide for New Testament Exegesis, 2nd ed.
 $18.00 God's Plan of the Ages: A Comprehensive View of God's Great Plan from Eternity to Eternity, 3rd ed. 
 $14.00 The Last Things: An Eschatology for Laymen  
$9.95  The Making of the New Revised Standard Version of the Bible

Theology and Doctrine Collection (16 vols.  $209.95

$156.00 God and the Future: Wolfhart Pannenberg's Eschatological Doctrine of God
$168.00  Aquinas on Doctrine: A Critical Introduction
$180.00  Faith in the Millennium
$156  Forgiveness in Context: Theology and Psychology in Creative Dialogue
$32.95  Captured by the Crucified: The Practical Theology of Austin Farrer
$72.00  Ascension and Ecclesia
$41.95  The Gift of the World: An Introduction to the Theology of Dumitru Staniloae
$72.00  Justification: The Heart of the Christian Faith
$84.00  Barth's Moral Theology: Human Action in Barth’s Thought
$72.00 The Shape of Pneumatology: Studies in the Doctrine of the Holy Spirit
$49.95  Naming the Silences: God, Medicine, and the Problem of Suffering
$72.00  Creatio Ex Nihilo: The Doctrine of ‘Creation out of Nothing’ in Early Christian Thought
$70.00  Resurrection
$84.00 Studies in Early Christology
$72.00 The Future as God's Gift: Explorations in Christian Eschatology
$72.00  The Doctrine of Creation: Essays in Dogmatics, History and Philosophy

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 26 2011 4:44 PM

I would be tickled pink if Logos would give me 50% off the 26 volumes I do not yet have. That should give Logos enough profit margin. The current Black Friday collections are discounted 80% or better. I doubt Logos will give any credit for what we already own. They would not do so on the 2010 Christmas Collections. Still, a $294 sale is better than none. I hope Michael Bellai is not counting on something that will not happen.

Reference Bundle @ $399 is not attractive to me because I have all but 4 of the titles. That makes the missing volumes cost me $125.90 (at regular sales price) 4 books averaging $31.45 each

New Testament Bundle @ $329 is not attractive to me because I have all but 6 of the titles. That makes the missing volumes cost me $127 (at regular sales price) 6  books averaging $29.33 each

Old Testament Bundle @ $499 is not attractive to me because I have all but 16 of the titles. That makes the missing volumes cost me $335.88  (at the cheapest regular sales price) 16 books averaging $21.00 each

Master Bundle @ $999 is not attractive to me because I have all but 26 of the titles. That makes the missing volumes cost me $588.78 (at regular sales price) books averaging $22.66 each

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 93
Fab | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 26 2011 5:06 PM

Hey Carl Sanders, thanks for your time explaining to me why it is so costly. So it's the publisher who sells it so expensive. Well that's very strange ... I don't see the interest in doing so. 

Concerning the Logos Academic discount, could you (or someone alse) tell me what are the differences with normal prices? I do have the Academic discount but can't see the real big deal actually. The Expositor's Bible Commentary I want to get is the same price as the normal price (about $125). So how does it come that the current deal is less attractive than the Logos Academic discount? 

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 26 2011 5:24 PM

EmileB:
These days, such approaches have pervaded the Church at large, the pulpit, worship...
Sadly I agree. But my contention is not with Logos creating a "Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price" -- Logos is the manufacturer, after all. My strong complaint is against every church using the world's evil music & fashion to conform to "itching ears." Rock music never did any good for me. And every time Christian contemporary artists try to mimic the world they never measure up to what the world has to offer. Logos' advertising doesn't concern me an iota compared to Preachers with body piercings, spiked hair, hip paraphrases of the Bible or inappropriate topics in the pulpit.

EmileB:
SO.... Here's what I propose, for what its worth. Why not simply change the "retail price" to "Suggested value"? That isn't disputable. That is honest. If Logos "values" the books at that price, fine. That is perfectly within their rights. (They can even choose to put an astronomical amount on their product "value" if they choose, although we also have the right to think that they are living in LaLa Land a few fries short of a happy meal.

Super idea!   I will use my frequently over-estimated influence to get the Logos VP of Marketing  

to change MSRP to "Suggested Value." And you are right, ridiculous MSRPs will not help sales.

 

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 26 2011 5:49 PM

Fabrice de Almeida:
Hey Carl Sanders, thanks for your time explaining to me why it is so costly. So it's the publisher who sells it so expensive. Well that's very strange ... I don't see the interest in doing so. 

Zondervan is responsible for how expensive their products sell for in Logos. It is negotiated with the licensing agreement. Some other publishers do this too. They will limit how low Logos can go and then allow other software vendors to sell it cheaper. This is also done by several third-part publishers. Don't get mad at Logos for not meeting those sale prices. If that practice becomes abusive you will notice the resource drop from Logos.com. Several titles that used to be listed are no longer to be found. Logos would get few sales and a lot of public criticism of Logos for being "greedy" for their pricing. And the offending company gets free exposure for their product. See if you can find all those cheaper-than-Logos products still listed in this website.

Fabrice de Almeida:
Concerning the Logos Academic discount, could you (or someone alse) tell me what are the differences with normal prices?

For humor sake I show you two examples of Academic pricing from JourneyED :

This one saves you 4 cents. The next costs you 95 cents more than retail, WoW!

Academic pricing is also frequently set by the Publisher rather than the retailer. It is my understanding Logos Academic pricing is usually a flat 25% of the regular selling price; 35% off base package if your school requires you to buy it. I also believe it is limited to accredited Bible colleges & Seminaries. I don't believe it is extended to non-accredited colleges or distance learning. If it were, I would be buying there sometimes. The super sales (like Black Friday Bundles and the 2010 Christmas collections) are often much better than Academic pricing. If a person has access to Academic rates, available funds, and patience for sales to come around, they can get a Logos library for a big savings off MSRP (or soon-to-be-called "Suggested Value" if EmileB and myself are successful Stick out tongue

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 10521
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 26 2011 6:10 PM

EmileB ... I really enjoyed your (lengthy) discussion on Christian behavior. Well done.

In the discussions, I notice there seems to be a 'divide' of what should be expected for Christian businesses and 'secular'. I wonder where that idea came from?

I spent a career with a large retailer, ending up as an executive, speaker at large retail conferences, etc. First, the folks that populate retail are quite often Christians; they have the same goals. And secondly, the discomfort with 'marketing' is very often palpable within these companies.

The reason is simple.

People know what 'misleading' means. Inside companies. Outside companies. Christian companies. Non-Christian companies.

Michael's discomfort is no different than in boardroom discussions I've sat in on. Honesty is honesty. The expectation is the same for all humans.

"I didn't know God made honky tonk angels."

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 26 2011 6:58 PM

Would everyone agree with EmileB's idea to change "Retail Price" to "Suggested Value?"

If so, you can cast a vote or three for the Logos UserVoice suggestion HERE under Change "Retail Price" to "Suggested Value"

If we really want to fix this "problem" cast three votes. Better to light a candle than to keep cursing the darkness.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 1281
toughski | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 27 2011 2:36 AM

SERIOUSLY?!

We are taking precious time arguing about semantics of advertising? No, really? I understand if it was theology and we were talking about defending the TRUTH. I think we have much bigger fish to catch (Mt 4:19).

in any case, here are my .02:

According to Alexander Elder "price reflects the consensus of value of all market participants at the moment of transaction." Basically, sellers and buyers are entitled to their own idea of what price should be, however biased or deceiving. BUT, if a buyer is not willing to buy, That "price" or MSRP or OUR price, or Walmart's Everyday Price or ..., it does not matter.  You can call it a SALE or a DOG, it has no meaning.

Logos is a business.  It is a good business. It is a good business operating in a very tough market and in a very worldly culture. Arguing about what we call "the OTHER price" is akin to a homeowner arguing with a neighbor about sky's color when his house is on fire. 

Do we get upset that Rolls Royce chooses to price their cars a little higher than BMWs? Of course not. The whole matter is the Point Of Reference and I believe we got it all wrong.  Point of reference should be the "value to me now," which is subjective. So if price goes from $30 on CP to $300 on Pre-Pub and to $500 everyday price, what right does ANYONE have to judge how much LOGOS put in their pocket? Is a title worth it to me at $500? if yes, than its former price of $30 should not concern me. If no, than again, its former price of $30 should not concern me.

if a title is offered at $15,000 and it is 99.999% off, is it worth $15,000 to me now, irregardless what we call a (fictitious) regular price?

 

Posts 10521
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 27 2011 5:55 AM

Yes Vladimir, 'seriously'.

"I didn't know God made honky tonk angels."

Posts 10645
Forum MVP
Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 27 2011 2:17 PM

Vladimir Lukyanov:
SERIOUSLY?!

Very good post Yes

However, I did cast 3 precious votes for ST's UserVoice entry on pricing. Perhaps that would diminish this never-ending debate.

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 27 2011 5:01 PM

Vladimir Lukyanov:
SERIOUSLY?!

I thought you guys were serious. Don't tell me I actually bothered to write the suggestion and cast three precious votes for your complaints just to discover none of you really meant any of it. Angry Are y'all afraid of Dan Pritchett actually burning your straw man, causing a scramble for a new "ethics" issue to complain about?Huh?

If you don't vote on change, don't bother complaining anymore. It makes you look like the majority of US voters complaining about the President when they all were too lazy to visit the polls.Zip it!

As for the .02c; I strongly agree with you. If a buyer chooses to pay $4290 for Portfolio Edition, what should we care? I give buyers a little more credit. If they are intelligent enough to read theological works,they can probably do the math about the percentage of discounts. I can do the math quicker than I can open Calculator, and I'm no Astrophysicist.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Page 5 of 7 (128 items) « First ... < Previous 3 4 5 6 7 Next > | RSS