Anyone using an Intel Atom Z2760 powered tablet with Windows 8 and Logos 5?

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This post has 60 Replies | 4 Followers

Posts 45
Darren Loechel | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Feb 7 2013 8:19 PM

Logos recommends an i5 processor, but I wondered if anyone has tried Logos 5 on one of the new Windows 8 tablets with the Intel ATOM Processor Z2760? Acer offer the W510 and Samsung the ATIV Smart PC and I wondered if these might be ok for reading and highlighting while away from our desktop PC?

Posts 53
Jeff Miles | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 7 2013 11:11 PM

I have been using Logos 5 with a Dell Latitude 10 tablet, which has the same specs as the Acer W510, the Samsung ATIV SmartPC, ASUS Vivotab Smart, Lenovo Thinkpad Tablet 2, and others, with the Atom Clover Trail chip set.

Logos 5 does run on it. However, it is very slow. And, what is even worse is that Logos 5 is very touch interface unfriendly. In fact, it may be the worst software I have ever tried to use with a touch interface.

This is really unfortunate, because virtually all other office type software works beautifully on these new tablets. Logos is the exception.

If you are going to use Logos on one of these tablets, I suggest you do it with a keyboard and mouse, or as a minimum with an active stylus. (A passive stylus will not be much use.) Why an active stylus? Because then you can take advantage of the hover pop-ups in Logos, similar to when you hover your mouse cursor over hyperlinks.

Highlighting, in particular, is very slow. This is very disappointing to me, since I have typically relied a lot on the highlighting feature of Logos 4 and 5.

Logos does have a Windows 8 app too, which works really well on these tablets. Unfortunately, it is missing many of the features that the iOS and Android versions have. Hopefully, it will get feature parity soon. If that happens, then this would be the way to get around the performance limitations of Logos 5 running in Desktop mode.

Bottom line: Logos 5 is usable on these tablets, but it is slow. It requires patience on your part, and using a keyboard and mouse will improve your experience quite a bit, since Logos 5 is devoid of any touch support.

 

Posts 45
Darren Loechel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 10 2013 10:25 PM

Thanks Pistos. When using the Windows 8 app, is highlighting still too slow, and does the app solve the touch interface problems?

Posts 45
Darren Loechel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 11 2013 4:34 AM

I just tried the Windows 8 App on my daughter's tablet and was very disappointed - but it is early days yet! I can't find any information on the website or the blogs about it though. Has anyone heard any plans for the development of this app?

Posts 53
Jeff Miles | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 11 2013 8:31 AM

This is the forum that discusses info regarding the Windows 8 App... http://community.logos.com/forums/108.aspx

Yes, the current Win8 App is pretty basic. But it is functional for reading. Ideally, it would as a minimum support highlighting, but that feature does not appear to be too high on Logos' priority list of features. If they follow the same course that they did with the Android app they will add a bunch of silly things that have little value first, rather than the things that are genuinely useful to a professional like highlighting and note taking and clippings, etc.

Posts 53
Jeff Miles | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 11 2013 9:40 AM

I already answered the win 8 app question, but regarding highlighting and Logos in general, the biggest problem is there is no right-click menu after selecting text which gives you access to highlighting when using a stylus or your finger. So, you have to have the highlighting tool window open the whole time taking up valuable screen space and generally slowing everything down because it is one more window requiring redrawing by the machine. The only work around at present is to have a keyboard attached so you can use keyboard shortcuts, but that kind of defeats the purpose of using a tablet. :-/

If Logos would add highlighting to the right-click menu it would make the use of a tablet so much more usable, no matter how fast or slow a tablet is at running the Logos software. This is simply a usability issue with pen and touch support in Logos.

 

Posts 53
Jeff Miles | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 11 2013 10:50 AM

I should probably add as a response to your original question that after spending more time with Logos on this little tablet, I have learned how to accommodate the limitations of both the Logos software and the tablet hardware and find it to be quite useful, even in its current state.

As a comparison, I also have a Motorola Xoom tablet running Android, and have used the Android Logos app on it quite a bit. But I prefer using this Dell Latitude 10 with the full version of Logos 5. It is definitely slower, but it gives me access to the tools that I use most often and allows me to customize the setup to the way that I prefer to work.

Posts 45
Darren Loechel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 11 2013 12:37 PM

Thanks again Pistos. I have ben quite happy with Logos on my Android phone, so I was also considering an Android tablet. Your experience is guiding me back to the Windows 8 platform, and I will save for the best processor I can afford - with stylus - and keyboard?!

Posts 45
Darren Loechel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 11 2013 2:31 PM

Thanks again Pistos. I have ben quite happy with Logos on my Android phone, so I was also considering an Android tablet. Your experience is guiding me back to the Windows 8 platform, and I will save for the best processor I can afford - with stylus - and keyboard?!

Posts 10
glorybound9 | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 17 2013 5:52 AM

I can confirm what pistos says about using a tablet with Atom Z2670 and Logos 5. I have ASUS VivoTab Smart. It is very disappointing that Logos 5 did not support touch interface as the developer preview of Windows 8 has been available since August, 2011. Microsoft Office 2013 provides the model for how the touch interface should work. The ESV Bible app works just like the Office 2013 programs for copy and paste functions. They got it right - now, how about Logos!

 

I have a co-worker who just purchased the Microsoft Surface Pro with Intel i5 processor. He is a heavy Logos user and plans to use his Surface Pro while traveling. He does have the Digitizer Pen and the addtional functionality of that allows copy and paste. He has also purchased the keyboard cover and bluetooth mouse. However, he also found that using finger touch caused Logos to become unresponsive, just as mine did.

 

His Surface Pro starts Logos and changes resources faster than my ASUS with Atom processor, but I have worked with Logos on Windows XP that was much slower than my tablet. Logos is quite useable on Atom Z2760. Battery life for the Atom is twice the Surface Pro’s i5. To me, a tablet with the same battery life of my laptop defeats the purpose of using the tablet format. I just hope and pray Logos will soon support the touch capabilities of my tablet. I can still use Xiphos in a pinch. It is much less processor hungry and I can copy and paste from it.

 

Finally, the Logos app is very basic and can be used as a reader only. Copy and paste function is not found in it either.

Posts 15805
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 17 2013 6:52 AM

pistos:

I have been using Logos 5 with a Dell Latitude 10 tablet, ...  Logos 5 does run on it. However, it is very slow.

Concur with slow.  Dell Latitude ST has Windows 7 with an Intel Atom Z670 CPU @ 1.50 GHz with 2.1 experience index: 2.1 for CPU, 2.9 for Graphics, and 7.4 for disk.  The Solid State Disk (SSD) is fast, but CPU and graphics are not.

Thankful for stylus having AAA battery that improves pointing.  Personally use on-screen keyboard with book abbreviations for Bible navigation.

Before using quick installation to clone Logos 5 to tablet for offline use, turned off visual filter highlighting.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 1776
JoshInRI | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 2 2013 10:17 AM

Hopefully some kind Logos admin will read through this forum and come up with a full function version on Windows 8 that is efficient and touch friendly soon.

Posts 17
Benjamin Tsao | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 10 2013 7:14 PM

Would anyone be so kind to provide a video of the speed? or could someone specify how long it take to do searches? "slow" is alittle subjective imo. :) thanks guys. 

Posts 53
Jeff Miles | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 10 2013 8:31 PM

Some quick time results, not at all scientific. But will give you a general idea, perhaps...

Time to launch program: 30 sec

Time to do a Bible search of top Bibles for word, "knowledge": 14 sec

Time to do a Basic search of Library for word, "knowledge": 17 sec

Not bad if you consider the portability and battery life for this little tablet.

Test was run on a Dell Latitude 10, 64gb storage, Logos 5. Timing was done with a stop watch. These are NOT the times reported by Logos for a search.

Posts 17
Benjamin Tsao | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 10 2013 11:18 PM

thanks pistos! Big Smile

Posts 1776
JoshInRI | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 11 2013 5:11 AM

I hope they fix the Win 8 Pro version and make highlighting work too.

Posts 53
Jeff Miles | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 11 2013 6:42 AM

@Joshua: I assume you mean a Windows 8 modern interface app for Logos? Just to clarify for someone reading through this thread and perhaps getting the wrong idea, Logos 5 works well with Windows 8 Pro.

Posts 53
Jeff Miles | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 11 2013 7:28 AM

After using the full version of Logos 5 for several weeks now, running under Windows 8 Pro on my Dell Latitude 10 tablet, let me add the following:

After making a few changes to the way I use Logos, the application is now quite functional and I am happy with it. On my desktop computer, I typically have between 15 and 20 windows/tabs open all of the time (several bibles, dictionaries, commentaries, search windows, information window, etc). On my tablet, I run a much simpler layout and it made a big difference in the performance. I usually only have a couple of bible windows, a single commentary window, a single search window, and the highlighting window open. I never have any of the windows open that want to constantly "update" the information in them, like Power Lookup. I have also learned the "timing" of the application, so that I don't push it and expect it to react at the same speed as my desktop computer. By simply being conscientious of the "timing" of the user interface I have improved my overall experience dramatically too. I have even learned to use the application pretty well with "touch" (i.e. using my finger) for everything but selecting text for highlighting and copying. For selecting text, a digitizer pen is still the only practical way to go.

Posts 2896
Mike Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 11 2013 7:30 AM

pistos:

Logos 5 does run on it. However, it is very slow. And, what is even worse is that Logos 5 is very touch interface unfriendly. In fact, it may be the worst software I have ever tried to use with a touch interface.


 

That is my prime hesitancy to consider a Windows 8 Tablet of any kind for Logos.  Until the software is redesigned to be touch interface friendly, I think that using Logos 5 (or 4) on any tablet would be a very frustrating experience, and a step down from even the iPad app.  The very existence of a Windows 8 "app" ought to tell us something about that.

Currently, I doubt the market share of Windows 8 tablets justifies the cost of a rewrite of the software.

Though I note that in later posts Pistos is happier with the performance.  That is encouraging.  Please keep us informed and many are interested in this.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 10
glorybound9 | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 11 2013 7:42 AM

Actually, while Logos 5 can run well on my ASUS VivoTab Smart tablet with Windows 8, the program still does not support the touch functionality. I cannot copy and paste a verse to a blog post for example. I can use the Copy Bible verse tool, but then if I want to quote a paragraph from a book, selecting and copying text is not supported using the touch interface.

A co-worker who has installed Logos 5 on his Android device showed me yesterday that his version had been updated to provide the touch capabilities for copy and paste. It is not available for Windows 8 yet. Nor is it possible in the Logos app found in the App store. The Logos modern app provides a reader for the books in your Logos account, but no other functions - no highlighting, no copy and paste, no note taking.

In a related Logos issue for tablet users: my ASUS VivoTab Smart tablet has a 64 GB solid state drive. Of that amount approximately 40 GB will be available for user programs and documents. Logos can create a space problem on such a small hard drive. Here's how I worked around that:

I first attempted to install Logos on a Sandisk 32 GB microSD card and that worked fine. Logos allowed me to choose where the application would install to. However, in practical use Logos would begin indexing its resources and never finished even over a day and a half. During its indexing time, the tablet was crippled as far as trying to run any other programs. Everything slowed to a crawl. This is normal for Logos indexing on any computer but indexing should finish in a couple of hours at most.

Next I tried locating the resources for Logos on the SD card as this can free up 10-20 GB of space on the hard drive. The Logos forums have instructions for doing that for Logos 5. This is not a supported installation and Logos will not try to fix problems encountered with this installation. I moved the resources - 10 GB - to the SD card and followed the instructions for making a Junction in Windows, which mounts the new location as if it were running from the default location. Logos opened and seemed to be running fine until I started scrolling through books. As soon as Logos needed to read the resource actively while scrolling it crashed. I tried several times with the same result. I had kept the Logos resources on the hard drive for this test, having just renamed the file. I removed the Junction and named the file back to its default name and Logos started running okay again.

I removed Logos resources from the microSD card. I decided to try a different route to freeing up space on my tablet's hard drive. The SD card's description mentioned running apps from it, so I downloaded and installed Portable Apps and portable versions of Firefox, Chrome, Thunderbird, etc. Performance of those programs from the SD card was indistinguishable from running them from the hard drive. I uninstalled all those programs from the tablet hard drive. My Thunderbird profile alone freed up more than 2 GB. I reinstalled Logos to the hard drive using its normal installation locations. After install and some cleanup of temp files and such, I had 12 GB of free space on my hard drive and all the other programs I am used to having ran from the SD card.

Bottom line: Logos does not like running from a non-default location.
Relevant links:
http://community.logos.com/forums/t/3559.aspx
http://wiki.logos.com/Install_in_different_folder_or_drive
http://comptb.cects.com/2268-overview-to-understanding-hard-links-junction-points-and-symbolic-links-in-windows
http://superuser.com/questions/167076/how-can-i-delete-a-symbolic-link

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