Important Announcement for Windows XP, Vista, OS X 10.5, 10.6, 10.7 users

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This post has 30 Replies | 5 Followers

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Bradley Grainger (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Jan 24 2014 9:22 AM

In August 2012, we announced that Windows XP support would be ending October 26, 2012.

As it turned out, we ended up putting Logos 4 for Windows XP in "maintenance" mode: after October 26, we shipped seventeen updates and Service Releases to Windows XP users. These updates let Logos 4.x read the latest resources, support the latest data types, sync your documents and settings to Logos 5 and documents.logos.com, and fixed critical bugs.

We're now announcing that we're officially ending support for Windows XP and OS X 10.5 on April 8, 2014 (the same day that Microsoft ends extended support for XP). There will be no further updates to Logos 4.6c on Windows XP/OS X 10.5 after that date.¹ Your copy of Logos will not be disabled. Your existing install will continue to run with the resources you already have. However, new resources purchased from logos.com may not be readable by Logos 4.6c. Your documents and settings may eventually stop syncing to newer versions of Logos. Web services that are only used by Logos 4.6c may be discontinued without notice. Eventually, you may have to permanently "Work Offline" to keep using the software.

I'm not saying that everything will break instantly on April 8; rather, since Logos 4.6c won't be getting any more updates, it will gradually become incompatible with resources and web services that are getting updated. I don't have a specific date for when this might first happen. [Update: The first resources that require Logos 5.2a or later shipped on May 16, 2014. As of June 1st, there are fewer than 200 resources that require 5.2a; the majority of resources still work on Logos 4.6c.]

Note: If you're using Logos 4.6c on Vista/OS X 10.6 or later, you can update to the free version of Logos 5 to get the latest bug fixes and features right now: https://www.logos.com/installation

On that same date, Logos 5.2a (currently in beta) will become the new "maintenance" version for Windows Vista, OS X 10.6, 10.7 and 10.8; Logos 5.3 will require Windows 7 SP1 or OS X 10.9 or later. If you're running Logos 5.2a on Vista/10.6/10.7/10.8, your system will not be disabled; Logos 5.2a will continue to receive updates to let you read the latest resources purchased from logos.com, to keep sync working, to fix critical bugs, etc. You will continue to receive support for your version of Logos 5.2a on your OS. However, major new features in Logos 5.3 and later will require a newer operating system version.

For a detailed discussion of "Supported", "Maintenance", and "Unsupported" versions, please see this new support article: https://www.logos.com/support/lifecycle 

This change lets us focus our limited development, testing, and support resources on the latest versions of Windows and Mac OS X, which are used by the vast majority of our customers. (We have done an analysis of our user base, and Vista/10.6/10.7/10.8 users are a small portion, and XP/10.5 is an extremely small fraction.) It lets us take advantage of new OS features developed by Microsoft and Apple, and dramatically cuts down on the possible configurations for testing.

Logos 4.6c and 5.2a won't automatically download resources or updates that your computer doesn't support, so it's safe to keep downloading updates if you're running one of those versions.

Finally, if you're running OS X 10.6, 10.7 or 10.8, you should consider updating to the latest version of OS X 10.9 Mavericks free on the App Store: http://www.apple.com/osx/how-to-upgrade/; this will allow you to run the latest version of Logos 5.

¹ We reserve the right to ship additional 4.6c SRs at our discretion without invalidating this policy.

Posts 8604
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 24 2014 9:56 AM

Documents not sync'ing. Hmmm ... this sounds great!!

Not mentioned but hinted at, is that resources that fit in L4/5.1 but not L5-future; do you still sell, or are they no longer available? (Libronix is still available if they were produced). 


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Bradley Grainger (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 24 2014 10:01 AM

Denise:

do you still sell, or are they no longer available?

Those are two separate questions. Smile

Any version of Logos 4.x/5.x will download the latest version of a resource that it can read. If you're not running the latest version of Logos, then there may be no available versions that are readable by your program, or (in some cases) it may download an older version that's missing newer data type references and typo corrections.

Posts 9944
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 24 2014 10:02 AM

Thank you for the heads up, Bradley.  This doesn't directly affect me (although I do still have an old machine running Vista which is basically retired), but when questions arise (and they will) we will know where to refer them.  One thing I would suggest is that some notation be added to all product pages for resources which will not be compatible with any particular OS.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 7141
LogosEmployee
Bradley Grainger (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 24 2014 10:31 AM

George Somsel:

some notation be added to all product pages for resources which will not be compatible with any particular OS.

We are not currently planning to track OS compatibility on a resource-by-resource basis. (What if v1 of the resource works on an old OS, but v2 with all the typo corrections doesn't? It could get very complex to communicate that clearly.)

The simple answer will be: all resources require a "supported" or "maintenance" version of Logos (see https://www.logos.com/support/lifecycle). After April 8, 2014, this means you will need to be running Logos 5.2a (or later) on Vista or OS X 10.6 (or later).

Posts 9944
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 24 2014 10:42 AM

Bradley,

I was basically referring to new releases that are not compatible with previous OSs.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 8604
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 24 2014 12:00 PM

Actually the real bonus here, George, is getting to chat with the Logos back-office folks while eating my Post Toasties after a long weekend.

Whenever I order a really neat book (typically on the weekend), and finding there's no Libronix version, Monday am's are reserved for refunds.

Of course, after you get a hold of the official refunder-of-the-day, you also make sure any other purchases are fully liked (or they get a refund too!).

Logos is really the best, not letting you know if a purchase will even fit your 'vacume cleaner'.  Order and see!!


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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 24 2014 12:45 PM

As usual there is a degree of ambiguity with OS versions affected:-

    

Bradley Grainger (Logos):
We're now announcing that we're officially ending support for Windows XP and OS X 10.5 on April 8, 2014 (the same day that Microsoft ends extended support for XP).

OSX 10.5 suffers because of a MS decision?

    

Bradley Grainger (Logos):
On that same date, Logos 5.2a (currently in beta) will become the new "maintenance" version for Windows Vista, OS X 10.6 and 10.7; Logos 5.3 will require Windows 7 SP1 or OS X 10.8 or later.

Why are these versions isolated. Is MS releasing a new version of .NET for W7/8 only? Mac?

Dave
===

Windows & Android

Posts 3771
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 24 2014 1:00 PM

Dave Hooton:

As usual there is a degree of ambiguity with OS versions affected:-

    

Bradley Grainger (Logos):
We're now announcing that we're officially ending support for Windows XP and OS X 10.5 on April 8, 2014 (the same day that Microsoft ends extended support for XP).

OSX 10.5 suffers because of a MS decision?

    

Bradley Grainger (Logos):
On that same date, Logos 5.2a (currently in beta) will become the new "maintenance" version for Windows Vista, OS X 10.6 and 10.7; Logos 5.3 will require Windows 7 SP1 or OS X 10.8 or later.

Why are these versions isolated. Is MS releasing a new version of .NET for W7/8 only? Mac?



IF they haven't, its an inevitability over time... Plus as they said if .1% of users are using vista, 60% are using 7 and 30% are using 8, it makes sense to use their developement dollars where the bulk of their clients are.

PLUS once MS discontinues XP, there ought to be a mass exodus away from it... Hackers are saving up exploits to be released after the EOL of XP. This means that continuing to use XP after the EOL is more or less akin to walking through a mine field blindfolded. You might survive without encountering a problem, but more than likely the result will be really bad.

Vista as an OS should maybe have never been released... But thats another post.

L2 lvl4, L3 Scholars, L4 Scholars, L5 Platinum (etc),  L6 Collectors. L7 Baptist Silver

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 24 2014 1:43 PM

abondservant:
Vista as an OS should maybe have never been released...

It had a limited tenure on my Win XP computer as a dual boot option, but I'm wondering if there is (also) something from MS that is driving Logos to limited support for Vista. 

I'm also wondering if the same machine can support OS X 10.5, 10.6, 10.7, 10.8, 10.9 and the upgrade to 10.8/10.9 is FREE, so there is much less trauma for Mac users?

Dave
===

Windows & Android

Posts 7141
LogosEmployee

Dave Hooton:

OSX 10.5 suffers because of a MS decision?

No, we're removing support for it because it's over six years old, and has very few active Logos users (far fewer than Windows XP). The choice of April 8 is somewhat arbitrary, but aligns with Microsoft's decision for XP and there's no compelling reason to stop supporting OS X 10.5 and XP on different dates.

Dave Hooton:
Why are these versions isolated. Is MS releasing a new version of .NET for W7/8 only? Mac?

These versions were chosen based on use among our customer base, age, and vendor support. (Windows Vista is already out of mainstream support, for example.) Not everything depends on .NET; for example, here's a list of new APIs available only in Windows 7 and later that can be used by .NET programs running on Windows: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh920509.aspx. There is a similar list of OS X APIs available only on 10.8 and later: https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/releasenotes/macosx/whatsnewinosx/Articles/MacOSX10_8.html 

One specific example from that list is that rewriting Reading Plan export to use "Event Kit" may fix the bugs with iCal export (see http://community.logos.com/forums/t/78013.aspx), which has been deprecated (and seemingly broken) in newer versions of OS X.

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Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 24 2014 3:03 PM

Thanks, Bradley.

Dave
===

Windows & Android

Posts 4428
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 24 2014 7:38 PM

I'm glad my next upgrade will be to one of the Mac laptops or at least a Windows 8, though in my opinion, Windows should've stopped at Windows 7 and just improve it a little bit more.  So far I've had 2 Windows 7 and I've been happy with the performance.  I'm sorry for the guys who will be struggling a little bit with their old systems but hey it is what it is.

DAL

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 25 2014 5:07 AM

Dave Hooton:
OSX 10.5 suffers because of a MS decision? … Why are these versions isolated. Is MS releasing a new version of .NET for W7/8 only? Mac?

Don't remember much about the transition from 10.5 to 10.6, but after that 10.7 made some rather dramatic under-the-hood changes to the OS. Several of my applications needed updates or trash when I was forced to move there to keep my iCloud email account.

Mac Logs | PC Logs | Install 

 

Posts 206
Charles | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 25 2014 2:00 PM

The move from OS X 10.6 to 10.7 and up was dramatic since that was when Apple dropped support for the PPC machines and went with Intel only which of course meant that much of the older software had to be updated.

I monitor several Mac forums on a regular basis and it does seem that very few users are still running 10.5; and those that are have machines that will not perform very well with the current version of Logos anyway.  I'm running 10.9.1 on a new 27" iMac and Logos 5 is not a stellar performer on my machine so I can't imagine running it on older hardware.  But that's just my opinion.

In Christ,

Charles

Late 2013 27" iMac, Sierra, 10.5" iPad Pro, iPhone 6s+, iPhone 7+, iOS 10.3.2  

Posts 240
Batman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 29 2014 8:58 PM

They did; its called Windows 8. Unfortunately for most, they missed the Windows 8 upgrade program, where one could get Windows 8 professional with 32 and 64 bit for dirt cheap. I want to say $40 for download ($65 for DVD).

I keep hearing this ridiculous complaint about the missing start menu. Well, 8.1 brought back a version of it. Here's the stupidity of it all. All the whiners, who are now happy, they had the same thing all along. Its the windows button on the keyboard, 

Anyway, Ive had Win 8 since it was a beta version. Ive liked it as much as I did 7. Btw, I dont have a touch screen, and I work it fine. Of course, even though I could do "tablet" mode, I use desktop mode. Which is pretty much the same as Win 7. 

DAL:

I'm glad my next upgrade will be to one of dirt cheap. I want to say   the Mac laptops or at least a Windows 8, though in my opinion, Windows should've stopped at Windows 7 and just improve it a little bit more.  So far I've had 2 Windows 7 and I've been happy with the performance.  I'm sorry for the guys who will be struggling a little bit with their old systems but hey it is what it is.

DAL

Posts 100
N/A | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 30 2014 6:00 AM

Batman, that's really expensive since Microsoft doesn't let installation of Office 2007 or 2010 in Windows 8 but forces an upgrade to 2013 or 365! I have many other things to learn instead of learning competing freeware.

Many people have multiple computers and there is no such thing as a license with which You can install the newest Office on both of Your computers anymore:

Batman:
They did; its called Windows 8. Unfortunately for most, they missed the Windows 8 upgrade program, where one could get Windows 8 professional with 32 and 64 bit for dirt cheap. I want to say $40 for download ($65 for DVD).

L2 Catholic new; Used: ODCC L5 Reformed Silver L6 Full Crossgrade; L6 Chinese Bronze new; L6 Ancient Literature Feature Expansion Collection (25 vols.) new, no dynamic pricing. Before packs had 100 books incl. AYBRL new

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 30 2014 6:04 AM

NÖ:
Batman, that's really expensive since Microsoft doesn't let installation of Office 2007 or 2010 in Windows 8 but forces an upgrade to 2013

I don't understand this statement.

I am running Windows 8.1 and a mix of Office 2007 and 2010 products without any problem.

Posts 497
Bill Shewmaker | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 30 2014 8:08 AM

Graham Criddle:

NÖ:
Batman, that's really expensive since Microsoft doesn't let installation of Office 2007 or 2010 in Windows 8 but forces an upgrade to 2013

I don't understand this statement.

I am running Windows 8.1 and a mix of Office 2007 and 2010 products without any problem.

I'll add my 2 cents worth on this one...I'm running Office 2010 with no problems on a Windows 8 machine. I wasn't even given the option to "upgrade" to the newer Office. So, I will continue to work with "older" programs.

Posts 100
N/A | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 30 2014 10:21 AM

Started out with Office 2010 Starter (means it was pre-installed when the computer was new, and only contained Word and Excel (didn't need PowerPoint at the time) and I was given no license-codes when I purchased the computer used). Recently I dropped it in the floor, the hardware wasn't damaged but the NTFS format disappeared so it had to be installed from scratch. Chose Windows 7 and got Office 2007 without additional cost. I didn't have any license for Office 2007 either. Got the full Office so now I have Powerpoint also.
On the other laptop there is no Microsoft Office, just LibreOffice Writer.

L2 Catholic new; Used: ODCC L5 Reformed Silver L6 Full Crossgrade; L6 Chinese Bronze new; L6 Ancient Literature Feature Expansion Collection (25 vols.) new, no dynamic pricing. Before packs had 100 books incl. AYBRL new

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