User Manual for Logos4

Page 1 of 4 (61 items) 1 2 3 4 Next >
This post has 60 Replies | 3 Followers

Posts 4
Gavin Robertson | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Dec 29 2009 10:55 PM

I love, love, love Logos4 and find great pleasure in delving into its features when preparing for a sermon, bible study or just personal study.  However, I am absolutely astounded that, as full and expensive as this program is, it doesn't come with a FREE users manual - a manual that explains and details all the great features.  I purchased the Logos 3 manual and received it 2 weeks before discovering that Logos4 was out - a waist of $30.00, it turns out.  I find it hard to fathom why I should be paying a further $60.00 for two more manuals after paying what I did for the program.  I love Logos4, I enjoy immensely using it - but I question the decision not to provide a full manual with the purchase price  ... I know they have help screens, but it isn't quite the same ... I'd rather put the money into more books.

Posts 19577
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 30 2009 3:49 AM

GavinRobertson:

I love, love, love Logos4 and find great pleasure in delving into its features when preparing for a sermon, bible study or just personal study.  However, I am absolutely astounded that, as full and expensive as this program is, it doesn't come with a FREE users manual - a manual that explains and details all the great features.  I purchased the Logos 3 manual and received it 2 weeks before discovering that Logos4 was out - a waist of $30.00, it turns out.  I find it hard to fathom why I should be paying a further $60.00 for two more manuals after paying what I did for the program.  I love Logos4, I enjoy immensely using it - but I question the decision not to provide a full manual with the purchase price  ... I know they have help screens, but it isn't quite the same ... I'd rather put the money into more books.

There are a lot of free training videos, and even more created by savvy users. There is also the user-generated wiki which we are developing to be (hopefully someday) as good as any training manual. Logos used to provide a rudimentary print-based user's guide for free with the program, but most software stopped shipping with print-based user's manuals sometime in the late 90s, since it was difficult to get such a thing finished and really thorough and up-to-the-minute by the time the software shipped. So after-market manuals became the norm. If you look in the computer section of any big chain bookstore you'll see all the user's guides that should have come with the software (Windows, Office, Adobe, etc.) but didn't. Logos is no exception in the reasons for why they do this nowadays. Economics and practicality. It would be obsolete by the time it was in your hands if they shipped it with the product.

Posts 1674
Paul Golder | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 30 2009 5:07 AM

Rosie Perera:
It would be obsolete by the time it was in your hands if they shipped it with the product.

Or in the case of L3, the product is obsolete when the manual finally ships... Big Smile

 

"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."

Posts 48
GS | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 30 2009 5:56 AM

So perhaps the lame in-program Logos 4 help is simply a clever marketing scheme to sell user manuals?  Really, I don't mind the lack of a separate manual but the in-program help doesn't provide enough information!

Posts 2590
Ronald Quick | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 30 2009 6:01 AM

I wouldn't mind having a hard copy of the manuals, but I would prefer to see Logos offer the manuals within L4 itself as another resource.   

Posts 1674
Paul Golder | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 30 2009 6:10 AM

GreggShelton:
Really, I don't mind the lack of a separate manual but the in-program help doesn't provide enough information!

I wholeheartedly agree. The software that Rosie had mentioned (Windows, Office, Adobe, etc.) all include a comprehensive help system. Having a ready reference like this would be invaluable in L4.

 

"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."

Posts 1674
Paul Golder | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 30 2009 6:27 AM

Has anyone purchased the MP manuals yet?

If so, what level of expertise are they written to?

And are they worth the investment?

 

"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."

Posts 350
Chuck P. | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 30 2009 6:50 AM

Mine are on the way..hope he updates pages with online PDF files as the software improves with changes....it's not 60.00....shipping is over 12.00....

Chuck

Laptop: Lenovo P580 - 15.6" IdeaPad Laptop
 - 6GB Memory - 750GB Hard Drive - Windows 7
 Iphone5s            Logos 7, Bronze

Posts 1539
Terry Poperszky | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 30 2009 6:56 AM

Charles C Pace:

Mine are on the way..hope he updates pages with online PDF files as the software improves with changes....it's not 60.00....shipping is over 12.00....

Let us know Charles. With the speed with which L4 is progressing, I have been hesitant to buy them. Even many of the free videos need to be re-done based on the improvements in 4.0a

 

 

Posts 2254
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 30 2009 7:04 AM

Charles C Pace:
hope he updates pages with online PDF files as the software improves with changes..

This is one of two reasons why I have decided not to purchase the manuals.  L4 is a beta program.  The second reason is because there is zero sense in not making the manual a resource to purchase in Logos.

Posts 134
Esther Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 30 2009 7:20 AM

MarkSwaim:

Charles C Pace:
hope he updates pages with online PDF files as the software improves with changes..

This is one of two reasons why I have decided not to purchase the manuals.  L4 is a beta program.  The second reason is because there is zero sense in not making the manual a resource to purchase in Logos.

Or just part of the Help files, for crying out loud.  Easy to update when changes are made...

 

Esther

Posts 569
J. Morris | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 30 2009 7:25 AM

I'd have to agree with the reasonable line of thinking that L4 (or any program for that matter) should come with a thorough user manual.  I've never been a fan of the Logos way of selling manuals (or videos) on how to use their software. 

While there are many free Logos instructional videos (very basic and short), it is the user videos that are most helpful.  Without the user videos, I know I'd still be  lost with many of the functions and abilities of L4. 

Though the user videos (thank you to all) are the most helpful, I do not believe it should be the responsibility of the users to explain to other users how to utilize the software. 

If you want users (esp. new to Logos users) to be happy with their software you've got to make sure they can use it (all of it) well.  In the case of Logos it is really up to the users to figure it out (and always has been) unless you want (can) fork out hundreds of extra dollars for manuals, videos, and seminars.

I am just venting my own frustration on the lack of up-front detailed training for Logos (first stemming from the release of L3).  Don't get me wrong, the official Logos videos ARE helpful, but simply too basic and not comprehensive. (Ex. a video series on implimentation durring study)  I am extremely grateful for those who take the time to make and post videos for 'us'.  Without you, we'd still be pretty lost, and Logos phone lines would be jammed for weeks to come.

Posts 98
Henry Finkle | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 30 2009 7:41 AM

It would be nice to have a good help file or manual in digital format. I personally don't mind in what kind of digital form. It could be integrated into L4 or it might as well just be pdf files. It would also make it easier for me to move around with.

I have the L3 training manual but I don't know if it's legal to scan the training manual for my own personal use

Posts 2254
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 30 2009 8:09 AM

It may be that if Logos entered into a different agreement with Morris Proctor...to pay him directly to have the manual integrated into L4...and then somehow make the customer pay without them noticing (charge a few more dollars for a few resources or for a base package)...I would think this would be wise business....Morris would get more sales, Logos would not be actually paying for it (users are paying) and all customers think they are getting a free resource or one they feel should be free.

Posts 1145
Juanita | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 30 2009 8:20 AM

Jeremiah Daniel Morris:

I'd have to agree with the reasonable line of thinking that L4 (or any program for that matter) should come with a thorough user manual.  I've never been a fan of the Logos way of selling manuals (or videos) on how to use their software. 

While there are many free Logos instructional videos (very basic and short), it is the user videos that are most helpful.  Without the user videos, I know I'd still be  lost with many of the functions and abilities of L4. 

Though the user videos (thank you to all) are the most helpful, I do not believe it should be the responsibility of the users to explain to other users how to utilize the software. 

If you want users (esp. new to Logos users) to be happy with their software you've got to make sure they can use it (all of it) well.  In the case of Logos it is really up to the users to figure it out (and always has been) unless you want (can) fork out hundreds of extra dollars for manuals, videos, and seminars.

I am just venting my own frustration on the lack of up-front detailed training for Logos (first stemming from the release of L3).  Don't get me wrong, the official Logos videos ARE helpful, but simply too basic and not comprehensive. (Ex. a video series on implimentation durring study)  I am extremely grateful for those who take the time to make and post videos for 'us'.  Without you, we'd still be pretty lost, and Logos phone lines would be jammed for weeks to come.

I agree totally with what you have said, Jeremiah and others.  The Help section should be very robust.  We shouldn't have to pay for expensive training and manuals.  But, I doubt it will change so I have to do a mental shift to keep from abiding in a sense of frustration and say "it is only software and I will use it and keep my peace."  God  Bless

Posts 569
J. Morris | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 30 2009 8:34 AM

Joan Korte:

 I agree totally with what you have said, Jeremiah and others.  The Help section should be very robust.  We shouldn't have to pay for expensive training and manuals.  But, I doubt it will change so I have to do a mental shift to keep from abiding in a sense of frustration and say "it is only software and I will use it and keep my peace."  God  Bless

At one point, a few years back, I gave up on Logos/Libronix because of my frustration on leaning how to "power use" the program.  I stopped using L3, bought another Bible software program, and used it for about 8 months.  The other program was a bit easier to use, but lacked greatly in total function

I switched back to L3, bought some training manuals, short-cut cards, and the like and started using L3 again.  IMO Logos blows the competition out of the water, I realized it and so I 'came back'. 

I understand that because Logos puts so much into their software there is much to learn.  I just feel users would be even more pleased with it if they understood how to get everything out of it that is possible.  Training material cost money to make, I know,  but as has been suggested adding a few extra dollars to base packages would cover it and would ensure a much greater level of customer satisfaction.

Posts 1674
Paul Golder | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 30 2009 8:45 AM

Jeremiah Daniel Morris:
but as has been suggested adding a few extra dollars to base packages would cover it and would ensure a much greater level of customer satisfaction.

The problem is that, on average, 64% of users, of any software title, never read the manual.

So those 64% would be buying something they would never use.

One solution would be to offer the manuals at a discount price during purchase of the software.

 

"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."

Posts 350
Chuck P. | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 30 2009 8:47 AM

The manuals should be in PDF online files and the user could decide to print or not....also, it would make it a lot easier and less expensive to keep updated if no hard copies were mailed....

Chuck

Laptop: Lenovo P580 - 15.6" IdeaPad Laptop
 - 6GB Memory - 750GB Hard Drive - Windows 7
 Iphone5s            Logos 7, Bronze

Posts 197
Rick Ross | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 30 2009 8:49 AM

Paul,

I have both MP Manuals and they so far have answered any question I have had.  I confess I am a new user even though I originally had Nelson's eBible that I used occasionally along with a number of other Bible Software packages.  With the exception of SwordSearcher I did not like how they functioned, but that could be because they also did not have a very good manual to explain how to use them to their fullest.

I believe the MP Manuals are worth the cost.  What you may have further questions about the software can be found here in the Forum through the help of those more knowledgeable.

Posts 2254
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 30 2009 9:11 AM

Paul Golder:
on average, 64% of users, of any software title, never read the manual.

Interesting.  I like statistics like these.  Can you share where you got this figure from?

One of the counter arguments for what you say here is that people pay money for parts of programs they never plan to use.  In the percentage you have to figure in people who dont read the manual because they already have a basic understanding of the program.  Some read manuals only when they have a question and the manual is there to answer it.  Statistics are interesting because they can be used to promote any argument you want.  Is it really true that 46% of all users READ a manual?  or do people REFER to manuals in time of need?

Page 1 of 4 (61 items) 1 2 3 4 Next > | RSS