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Evan Boardman | Forum Activity | Posted: Sun, Apr 13 2014 1:22 PM

This is the title of a book from a Catholic author(Thomas Weinandy) that deals with a doctrine that the Reformed churches are now struggling with, the doctrine of the  impassibility of God. I would love this in Logo's.

Posts 5261
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 13 2014 1:39 PM

Heb. 5:8

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Posts 737
Evan Boardman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 13 2014 3:49 PM

David Paul, your reply is proof why we need this book in Logos!

Posts 8899
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 15 2014 3:22 AM

I have asked for/supported this book several times in the past, e g at For Catholics - books by Fr. Thomas Weinandy, OFM Cap, so of course I support it here on the Reformed forum as well.Big Smile

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Posts 1796
Ken McGuire | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 15 2014 4:42 AM

While having more resources as options is generally better, you do know that the German Reformed Theologian Juergen Moltmann's book The Crucified God is on sale for Holy Week?  See logos blog or the link at the bottom of resource page for sale code...

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Evan Boardman | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 15 2014 11:13 AM

Thanks Ken, but I heard this is the best book on the subject, that 's why the request.

Posts 3702
Milkman | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 18 2014 6:35 PM

@ David,

So you're saying the 'son' in the text refers to God??? Or something or someone else? 

mm.

mm.

Posts 5261
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 18 2014 7:55 PM

Milkman:

@ David,

So you're saying the 'son' in the text refers to God??? Or something or someone else? 

mm.

Of course it refers to 'Elohhiym. Jn. 10:30; Psa. 45:6, 7; Heb. 1:8, 9; Jn. 1:1. ...I could go on...and on...

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Posts 452
Mitchell | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 19 2014 9:10 AM

I would also recommend Moltmann's The Crucified God on this topic. It's available in Logos.

A God who cannot suffer is poorer than any man. For a God who is incapable of suffering is a being who cannot be involved. Suffering and injustice do not affect him. And because he is so completely insensitive, he cannot be affected or shaken by anything. He cannot weep, for he has no tears. But the one who cannot suffer cannot love either. So he is also a loveless being. Aristotle’s God cannot love; he can only be loved by all non-divine beings by virtue of his perfection and beauty, and in this way draw them to him. The ‘unmoved Mover’ is a ‘loveless Beloved’.

Posts 5261
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 19 2014 12:21 PM

I personally don't even know why this is a topic of discussion. The ancients who pulled this idea of a dispassionate God out of their tales knew nothing about YHWH and an equal amount of nothing about a whole lot else. It is a computation (and virtually all computations either are, or approach being, idolatry) as opposed to a revelation, which is what YHWH expects us to use as our guide. Even where revelation is concerned, once it has "bounced around" in actuality (the world we know), it ceases to have much of its directed truth and becomes subject to creaturely accretions that result in misapprehension and misunderstanding.

[Yes, the pun above was intended.]

The revelation pertaining to this issue is unambiguous. He CHOOSES to suffer.

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Posts 737
Evan Boardman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 19 2014 1:12 PM

David Paul, your the one who made it a discussion . I just requested a book in Logo's format .

Posts 5261
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 19 2014 1:49 PM

I suppose it is a matter of scope...but fair enough.

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Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 19 2014 10:16 PM

Evan Boardman:

This is the title of a book from a Catholic author(Thomas Weinandy) that deals with a doctrine that the Reformed churches are now struggling with, the doctrine of the  impassibility of God. I would love this in Logo's.

Peace, Evan!                I agree!            I'd also love this in Logos!         Thanks for the suggestion!              Your suggestion also got me -- and I appreciate it! -- to meditate on Moltmann and a few other important books this past Holy Week!                           Again, thank you!   *smile*

My response to the title of this post is:                  Yes!                 He does suffer!            And for us, He has bled and died!      I am always deeply moved by the Passion Hymn that I'm quoting now, one that I'm sure is quite familiar in almost every denomination:

  "Alas! and Did My Savior Bleed"
                           by Isaac Watts, 1674-1748
                                  Text From:
                     THE HANDBOOK TO THE LUTHERAN HYMNAL
               (St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1942)p.120



        1. Alas! and did my Savior bleed,
        And did my Sovereign die?
        Would He devote that sacred head
        For such a worm as I?

        2. Was it for crimes that I had done
        He groaned upon the tree?
        Amazing pity, grace unknown,
        And love beyond degree!

        3. Well might the sun in darkness hide
        And shut his glories in
        When God, the mighty Maker, died
        For man the creature's sin.

        4. Thus might I hide my blushing face
        While His dear cross appears,
        Dissolve my heart in thankfulness,
        And melt mine eyes to tears.

        5. But drops of grief can ne'er repay
        The debt of love I owe;
        Here, Lord, I give myself away,
        'Tis all that I can do.

        _______________________________________________________
        Notes:
        Hymn #154 from _The Handbook to the Lutheran Hymnal_
        Text: Heb. 10:4
        Author: Isaac Watts, 1709
        Composer: William Daman, 1579
        Tune: "Southwell"
        1st Published in: _Psalter_
        ______________________________________________________________
        This text was converted to ascii format for Project Wittenberg
           by Cindy A. Beesley and is in the public domain. You may
         freely distribute, copy or print this text. Please direct any
            comments or suggestions to: Rev. Robert E. Smith of the
              Walther Library at Concordia Theological Seminary.

                          E-mail: bob_smith@ctsfw.edu

          Surface Mail: 6600 N. Clinton St., Ft. Wayne, IN 46825 USA
            Phone: (219) 452-2148              Fax: (219) 452-2126

And, now!            Early, early Easter Morning in Eastern Canada; and I cannot sleep!          But I CAN Praise the Lord!

He is Risen!                        He is Risen Indeed!                           Alleluia!

                                                                                     *smile*

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

Posts 737
Evan Boardman | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 28 2014 4:17 AM

Another reason to get this work. I hear it's an argument directed at Moltmann's work.

Posts 737
Evan Boardman | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 28 2014 4:29 AM

" Moltmann is one of the most read modern impassibilists who has redefined the whole doctrine of God. Weinandy takes on Moltmann head on and shows how wrong he is. Moltmann also misrepresents impassibility as passivity. The Scriptures and confessions teach, not that God is passive, (i.e., uncaring) but that He is infinitely active. His love is not a changing love (passible) but and infinite and unchanging love. Love is of the very essence of God. "

Posts 5261
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 28 2014 1:59 PM

Just to make this thread a bit easier to follow, this is the book in question.

This book appears to draw a different conclusion...I suggest Logos get both.

May as well get this as well...since it seems to be on target, though perhaps not a bulls-eye (I'd have to read it to find out).

The answer is...YHWH is & does whatever He wants...that's what He means by changes not.

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Posts 737
Evan Boardman | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 28 2014 3:02 PM

David Paul, all those books look good. If we are to keep up with the times, Logos needs to keep up with our book demands.

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 28 2014 3:49 PM

Evan Boardman:

Another reason to get this work. I hear it's an argument directed at Moltmann's work.

Retracted.  I wasn't being polite.

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Posts 19232
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 28 2014 4:01 PM

David Paul:

Just to make this thread a bit easier to follow, this is the book in question.

This book appears to draw a different conclusion...I suggest Logos get both.

May as well get this as well...since it seems to be on target, though perhaps not a bulls-eye (I'd have to read it to find out).

And this one should be added to the mix:

The Suffering of the Impassible God: The Dialectics of Patristic Thought (Oxford Early Christian Studies) - "This book provides a major reconsideration of the issue of divine suffering and divine emotions in the early Church Fathers. Patristic writers are commonly criticized for falling prey to Hellenistic philosophy and uncritically accepting the claim that God cannot suffer or feel emotions. Gavrilyuk shows that this view represents a misreading of evidence. In contrast, he construes the development of patristic thought as a series of dialectical turning points taken to safeguard the paradox of God's voluntary and salvific suffering in the Incarnation."

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