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This post has 14 Replies | 3 Followers

Posts 80
Daniel R Bartholomew | Forum Activity | Posted: Sun, Jan 25 2015 6:46 PM

I'm not sure how many people are aware, but there are now dirt-cheap Windows 8.1 Tablets out there at Microcenter.  I don't know how well some of these (especially the 1 GB RAM versions) would run full Logos 6.0; however, at sub-$100 price points, I'm again debating on getting a Windows 8.1 Tablet rather than an Android.  (I've got a Microsoft SurfacePro, but I don't like carrying it everywhere--it's too pricy to spill coffee on! Wink)

If these little tablets pick up, combined with Windows 10 and universal apps, I think Logos might need to seriously re-consider a more robust touch-enabled version.  Windows might yet make decent penetration in the Tablet/Phone  world.

Posts 602
Bill Anderson | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 25 2015 7:57 PM

Daniel,

I wouldn't consider getting any tablet that didn't have at least a BayTrail Atom processor, 2GB of RAM. 64GB SSD and microSD slot. Logos runs really well on an Asus VivoTab Note 8 with these specs, with Logos installed on a class 10 microSD. The Asus also has a Wacom digitizer. The pen comes in handy when trying to manipulate the controls in Logos on an 8" tablet.

 I've had the Asus, but now I have a Surface Pro 3. Until Faithlife adds touch capability to desktop Logos, a tablet with a pen is really necessary IMO.

Posts 80
Daniel R Bartholomew | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 25 2015 8:05 PM

Bill Anderson:

Daniel,

I wouldn't consider getting any tablet that didn't have at least a BayTrail Atom processor, 2GB of RAM. 64GB SSD and microSD slot. Logos runs really well on an Asus VivoTab Note 8 with these specs, with Logos installed on a class 10 microSD. The Asus also has a Wacom digitizer. The pen comes in handy when trying to manipulate the controls in Logos on an 8" tablet.

 I've had the Asus, but now I have a Surface Pro 3. Until Faithlife adds touch capability to desktop Logos, a tablet with a pen is really necessary IMO.

This one has a Bay Trail, 2 GB RAM, 32 GB flash drive, microSD slot...no digitizer, however: http://www.microcenter.com/product/440932/WinBook_TW802_Tablet_-_Black

For $129, it's awfully tempting.

Posts 80
Daniel R Bartholomew | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 5 2015 7:45 AM

This is now discounted to a hair under $100: http://www.microcenter.com/product/437499/TW801_Tablet_-_Black

I've loaded Logos on a class 10 64 GB micro SD in this machine.  I first re-formatted the micro SD to NTFS, then installed Logos there directly from Logos servers (yeah, took forever for download to complete).  It's now indexing.  So far, it seems to be working just great...I'll post more as I use it.

If this solution works well, I think (a) I don't need an Android or iOS tablet, I've got a mobile version of full Logos, with my entire library; (b) with the USB 3.0 port and mini-HDMI port, it's a full desktop replacement (assuming performance with Logos is acceptable).  It even comes with a year of Microsoft Office (which alone is worth the price of the Tablet, meaning it essentially costs nothing).  At $100.00  At $100!

Of course, the proof of the pudding...I'll let you know how it works.

Posts 27

I'd like a review of how Logos works on this after you have used it awhile please.  I just wish there was one available with 1080p resolution available.

Posts 80
Daniel R Bartholomew | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 5 2015 10:09 AM

Mark Groen:

I'd like a review of how Logos works on this after you have used it awhile please.  I just wish there was one available with 1080p resolution available.

I'll let you know.  I'm not too sure that 1080p at 8" screen size would make that noticeable of a difference.  However, I just ordered a micro-HDMI adapter that should arrive Saturday.  Once I have it on my big screen, the lower resolution might be more apparent.  The screen isn't like an Apple "Retina" display--but it seems adequate.  I'll see if long-term eyestrain is a factor.

What I can tell you so far: installation takes forever.  I didn't try copying from another machine; I did a raw install from Logos servers.  It literally took two days to download my books (about 3400 resources) over a cable modem.  It's been indexing for a few hours, and it's up to 15%.  At this rate, indexing might be done by tonight.  Once that's done, I'll do a full shut down, and time how long it takes to boot up, load Logos, navigate, etc.  I doubt if the performance will be as nice as my i5 Surface Pro with 4 GB RAM running off a SSD; but it might be acceptable for reading in Church, on the plane, in the Coffee shop, etc.

One thing to note: it does not have a digitizer; I can either use a mouse, my finger, or a little stylus I got for my old iPad that has a rubber eraser-like tip (not a digitizer).  For a small screen, using a finger makes navigation challenging; and for a true tablet experience, I don't think using a mouse is the optimal solution.  The "eraser tip" stylus works nicely, however.

Posts 602
Bill Anderson | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 5 2015 12:16 PM

One thing to note: it does not have a digitizer; I can either use a mouse, my finger, or a little stylus I got for my old iPad that has a rubber eraser-like tip (not a digitizer).  For a small screen, using a finger makes navigation challenging; and for a true tablet experience, I don't think using a mouse is the optimal solution.  The "eraser tip" stylus works nicely, however.

This is why a digitizer on these small tablets is needed. When I owned the Asus, the only way to use the highlighting tool was by the pen or a mouse. I couldn't do highlighting with touch.

Posts 80
Daniel R Bartholomew | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 5 2015 12:25 PM

Bill Anderson:

One thing to note: it does not have a digitizer; I can either use a mouse, my finger, or a little stylus I got for my old iPad that has a rubber eraser-like tip (not a digitizer).  For a small screen, using a finger makes navigation challenging; and for a true tablet experience, I don't think using a mouse is the optimal solution.  The "eraser tip" stylus works nicely, however.

This is why a digitizer on these small tablets is needed. When I owned the Asus, the only way to use the highlighting tool was by the pen or a mouse. I couldn't do highlighting with touch.

As I mentioned, the "eraser tip" type stylus (which does not require a digitizer) seems to do the trick.  YMMV.

Posts 27

Daniel R Bartholomew:

I'll let you know.  I'm not too sure that 1080p at 8" screen size would make that noticeable of a difference.  However, I just ordered a micro-HDMI adapter that should arrive Saturday.  Once I have it on my big screen, the lower resolution might be more apparent.  The screen isn't like an Apple "Retina" display--but it seems adequate.  I'll see if long-term eyestrain is a factor.

I have a 7" and an 8" Android tablet the 8" is 1080p and I couldn't believe the difference.

Posts 623
JAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 5 2015 9:58 PM

Daniel, thanks for the heads-up.

I purchased one today. As you pointed out a subscription to Office 365 alone goes for a C note.

I am eager to see how Verbum performs on this device.

In another thread (https://community.logos.com/forums/p/99859/691154.aspx#691154) Brian Crawford recomended TouchMousePointer. I'm not sure if it's needed, though by experience I think it may prove useful.

TouchMousePointer is freeware: http://www.lovesummertrue.com/touchmousepointer/en-us/

"The Christian mind is the prerequisite of Christian thinking. And Christian thinking is the prerequisite of Christian action." - Harry Blamires, 1963

Posts 80
Daniel R Bartholomew | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 6 2015 4:59 AM

Update: make sure if you install Logos on the Micro-SD drive, format it NTFS (I did).

Also, when installing and downloading, make sure it's plugged in and set the power profile to "Sleep" "Never". Otherwise, downloading and indexing will take forever.  (I didn't do this until now).

I just got up and looked--my indexing is at 24% (it started the night at 15%).  I neglected to change the "Sleep" to "Never" and lost time that way, I believe.  I'll check periodically today to see if it advances more.

Just as I was typing, it increased to 25%.

Posts 623
JAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 6 2015 8:55 PM

Daniel R Bartholomew:
I just got up and looked--my indexing is at 24% (it started the night at 15%).

Daniel, in another recent thread other users noted that, as I think you are discovering, installing directly to microSD and indexing on the memory card is probably not the way to go.

https://community.logos.com/forums/t/99318.aspx

There are other faster options. I think your Surface Pro has a full-size USB3 port. Using a USB3 card reader or a compact USB3 flash drive it is possible to copy the necessary files from the library installation on the Surface Pro in a small fraction of the time it is taking you to complete a fresh install directly to the microSDXC card.

If for some reason you prefer to complete a full native installation on the WinBook tablet then I would still suggest a different approach. Using a USB3 attached HDD you can complete a native installation faster and more reliably. This installation can then be copied to the microSDXC card.

Daniel R Bartholomew:
I doubt if the performance will be as nice as my i5 Surface Pro with 4 GB RAM running off a SSD; but it might be acceptable for reading in Church, on the plane, in the Coffee shop, etc.

My experience leads me to believe performance will be more than acceptable. I have been using a Library from microSD for some time now.

I wrote about my installation and my impression of the performance in these threads:

https://community.logos.com/forums/p/94527/657149.aspx#657149

https://community.logos.com/forums/p/94399/657198.aspx#657198

I noted in the post at the second of the links my impression is that CPU, GPU, and RAM effect perceived performance more than Disk I/O, except when indexing.

"The Christian mind is the prerequisite of Christian thinking. And Christian thinking is the prerequisite of Christian action." - Harry Blamires, 1963

Posts 80
Daniel R Bartholomew | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 9 2015 12:01 PM

As pointed out by JAL, installing and indexing from "scratch" on an SD Card doesn't work.  The indexing was just not completing, so I ended up removing Logos and following https://wiki.logos.com/Quick_Installation_onto_multiple_computers  Method 2 took a long time as well, but it finally worked.  When you get to step 5 under Method 2, it took about six or seven hours, literally.  But now it's on my Tablet, not indexing and pretty responsive.  I'll try later (after I finish all my homework) to do some benchmarking.

Posts 80
Daniel R Bartholomew | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 10 2015 7:14 AM

Ok, I've been playing around with my new Tablet and here are some impressions and benchmarks.

(1) If you choose to install Logos, do NOT have the Tablet download your resources or index them.  Copy them from another installation.  I used Method 2 under https://wiki.logos.com/Quick_Installation_onto_multiple_computers and it worked well.  I didn't have a USB cable, so I just took the Micro-SD chip from my Tablet, inserted it into my Surface Pro, and copied over the necessary files.  It took awhile (about 40 minutes), but it worked.

(2) Follow the instructions carefully.  I don't know if it makes a difference, but I was told to format my Micro SD drive to NTFS, so I did, before I started.

(3) When you get to step 5 of Method 2, be prepared to wait.  It took several hours.

Now it's up and running.  Here are some benchmarks on the tablet:

-From cold boot up to desktop, it takes about 25 seconds...maybe about 10 seconds more for my background programs (virus scanner, etc) to fully boot up.

-To open Logos from Desktop, it takes about 1 minute 20 seconds.  I would suggest that if you're taking this to Church for your main Bible, open it up before you leave home.

-From Logos Desktop to a typical layout that I use for reading/light study (LEB Bible, note file, highlighter, maps, MacArthur Notes, BHS & NA 28 Ed) it takes about 35 seconds.  Again, you probably want to open this before you leave home.

-Keying in a passage and jumping to it: less than 5 seconds.  Not snappy, but not too sluggish.

-Searching all Bible text: less then 3 seconds.  (Used "serpent" in "Gospels"

READING:

Screen is fairly clear.  No retina, but adequate.  I didn't notice a visible flicker.

NAVIGATION:

-Scrolling through text is adequate with finger or "eraser-type" styles (no active digitizer).  I downloaded TouchMousePointer and that does the job nicely.  Of course, you could use a Bluetooth mouse, but if you're using it as a Tablet, why?

DESKTOP REPLACEMENT:

I didn't use it much like this, but for a short time I hooked it up to my USB hub and giant flatscreen.  Pretty cool, especially for a $100 Computer.  Used it with Screen, Mouse, Keyboard, etc--couldn't tell it's "just a Tablet".

Did I mention it comes with 1 year of Office?  Works nicely, though I really only use Word and Excel most of the time.

OVERALL:

It does the job.  I'll take it Church on Sunday and see how it works in a "live" environment.  I also haven't tested battery life too much.  But I really can't see how you can go wrong with this Tablet.  Dirt cheap, adequate.  Can't speak for durability yet, but even if it just lasts a year or so, it's worth the MS-Office alone.  I see no compelling reason to have an iPad or Android now.

Posts 80
Daniel R Bartholomew | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 10 2015 7:21 AM

Another thing to test: there's a download of 93.4 MB this morning.  I am not going to update it on my Tablet yet (make sure you turn updates off!), but do it on my Surface Pro, then copy it to tablet.  Rather than taking out the Micro SD drive again, I've ordered a 3.0 USB cable that should work.  I'll let you know how that works.  I imagine that I may want to time my updates using this method to do the download on Surface Pro, copy the files to Tablet, then open Logos and go to bed.  If it takes as long as it did when I first installed it, it should be ready before I wake up.

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