Retiring the Windows Store apps

We are removing the Bible! and Vyrso apps from the Windows Store. We’ve heard your feedback (both on the forums and in Store ratings) that they lack the level of quality and features you expect (and that we want to deliver).

More importantly, the apps don’t currently function as simple readers because they are unable to open many of the latest resources (but instead display a blank screen).

When evaluating the cost of fixing these problems, we decided that it would be better to focus on improving touch support in Logos 6. Several of our developers own a Surface Pro 3 (and use it regularly at church) so we understand the problems with using Logos 6 on a tablet.

We don’t have any announcements about touch improvements in Logos 6 yet; when we do, we’ll post them in this forum.

P.S. Here’s what removing an app from the Windows Store means, according to Microsoft:

People who don’t have your app can’t download it, or even find its listing in the Store. (If they follow a direct link to your app, such as from a website, they'll see the listing for your app, but they won't be able to get it.)
People who have already installed your app can still use it or even reinstall it. However, they won't be able to make in-app purchases.

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Comments

Rosie Perera

Good move. I've never tried the Windows Store apps, but with all the conversation recently about Faithlife needing to be more focused on quality, I think this makes good business sense and will result in happier users overall, even if a few will be disappointed.

Bill Anderson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/690324#Comment_690324

I'm glad to hear Faithlife is moving towards improving touch on Logos 6, even if there are no timelines to share just yet.

Bradley, if you need a guinea pig -- beta tester -- I own a Surface Pro 3.

Bohuslav Wojnar

Is there any chance we will see an universal application on Windows 10 though? It is not so much for tablets use, although there is a need of a simple reader for them too. But the most important lack we have so far is smartphones (Lumias etc.) Providing an application for them would also be available as a simple reader on all windows devices.
Your information might be quite important one for those who are buying new phones as they anticipate universal apps on Windows 10 platform.

Mark Barnes

When evaluating the cost of fixing these problems, we decided that it would be better to focus on improving touch support in Logos 6. Several of our developers own a Surface Pro 3 (and use it regularly at church) so we understand the problems with using Logos 6 on a tablet.

I'm glad to hear this. I don't own a Windows-based touch device yet, but it will be my next hardware purchase.

Joseph Turner

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/690437#Comment_690437

I own a Surface Pro and I am very excited about this news!

Bradley Grainger (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/690432#Comment_690432

Is there any chance we will see an universal application on Windows 10 though?

It's definitely a possibility, but we're not currently developing it.

Rob Kuefner

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/690490#Comment_690490

I was fortunate to have my device as an upgrade device this year in our budget and went with a Surface Pro 3. It runs Logos incredibly well, and I am glad to hear Logos is looking at improving the touch features. Since the Surface Pro 3 has a stylus, I can do quite a bit with it, but if Logos would eventually be able to add true inking capabilities that would be awesome! Biggest difference... the SSD makes all the difference in the world on Logos capabilities. If you don't have a solid state drive in your computer, that alone will make the biggest difference in how Logos runs!

Matthew C Jones

We are removing the Bible! and Vyrso apps from the Windows Store. We’ve heard your feedback (both on the forums and in Store ratings) that they lack the level of quality and features you expect (and that we want to deliver)

Although I hate to see them go, I think it is the right decision. What will become of the Noet app?

Bradley Grainger (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/690529#Comment_690529

What will become of the Noet app?

I'm not aware of a Noet app in the Windows Store. Do you have a link?

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/690556#Comment_690556

What will become of the Noet app?

I'm not aware of a Noet app in the Windows Store. Do you have a link?

Apparently there is none. [:$] I saw "mobile app" on the Noet home page and thought it was referring to a Widows app. Since I read my Noet books in Logos 6 desktop I have never clicked on "mobile apps."

Brian Crawford

This is the right move. If I was still running Windows RT, this would be painful, but thankfully that OS is dead. It would still be painful to not have a touch app on my 8" Windows 8.1 tablet, if I had not discovered TouchMousePointer. With that fantastic virtual mouse pointer, I run full desktop Logos 6 with zero input issues on my little tablet. It would be even better on all of your Surface Pro 3's. Consequently, I find myself totally uninterested in Logos 6 touch support. Why is a virtual mouse pointer not built into Windows 8/10?

Kevin A. Purcell

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/691154#Comment_691154

While I agree the Windows Store app was not up to snuff, the problem with this strategy is that some people own both a 32GB Windows 8 device and an extremely large library. For example, I own an HP Stream 13 that has only about 8GB of free space after the OS and recovery partition that CANNOT be removed. Installing my entire Logos library on this device leaves me about 2GB short. Installing to the micro-SD card is not an option because Logos will not run.

The solution is that you need to find a way to install to an SD card without needing the indexing because that's what makes it unusable. I tried twice and it took 3+ days to index and never got past about 75% before it just hangs and stops. Indexing is too drive intensive for an external SD card.

Currently Biblia and Bible.Faithlife.com are not up to snuff either. Plus, Windows 10 means there will be people running Windows Phone and Windows tablets and computers all on the same thing.

That's a long way of saying, you need more than just better touch support in Logos Desktop App. You need to allow people to download only a portion of their library too!

Bohuslav Wojnar

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/693075#Comment_693075

While I agree the Windows Store app was not up to snuff, the problem with this strategy is that some people own both a 32GB Windows 8 device and an extremely large library. For example, I own an HP Stream 13 that has only about 8GB of free space after the OS and recovery partition that CANNOT be removed. Installing my entire Logos library on this device leaves me about 2GB short. Installing to the micro-SD card is not an option because Logos will not run.

The solution is that you need to find a way to install to an SD card without needing the indexing because that's what makes it unusable. I tried twice and it took 3+ days to index and never got past about 75% before it just hangs and stops. Indexing is too drive intensive for an external SD card.

Currently Biblia and Bible.Faithlife.com are not up to snuff either. Plus, Windows 10 means there will be people running Windows Phone and Windows tablets and computers all on the same thing.

That's a long way of saying, you need more than just better touch support in Logos Desktop App. You need to allow people to download only a portion of their library too!

Yes! [Y]

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/693075#Comment_693075

That's a long way of saying, you need more than just better touch support in Logos Desktop App. You need to allow people to download only a portion of their library too!

There are certain books that I might wish to download only a portion of. [;)]

Erwin

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/693107#Comment_693107

While I agree the Windows Store app was not up to snuff, the problem with this strategy is that some people own both a 32GB Windows 8 device and an extremely large library. For example, I own an HP Stream 13 that has only about 8GB of free space after the OS and recovery partition that CANNOT be removed. Installing my entire Logos library on this device leaves me about 2GB short. Installing to the micro-SD card is not an option because Logos will not run.

The solution is that you need to find a way to install to an SD card without needing the indexing because that's what makes it unusable. I tried twice and it took 3+ days to index and never got past about 75% before it just hangs and stops. Indexing is too drive intensive for an external SD card.

Currently Biblia and Bible.Faithlife.com are not up to snuff either. Plus, Windows 10 means there will be people running Windows Phone and Windows tablets and computers all on the same thing.

That's a long way of saying, you need more than just better touch support in Logos Desktop App. You need to allow people to download only a portion of their library too!

Yes!

I strongly agree [Y][Y]

Mike Aubrey

When evaluating the cost of fixing these problems, we decided that it would be better to focus on improving touch support in Logos 6. Several of our developers own a Surface Pro 3 (and use it regularly at church) so we understand the problems with using Logos 6 on a tablet.

Thanks Bradley. This is an encouraging move. I appreciate it.

My only concern about this approach is it's effect on battery life. Even with improved touch support, the battery drain of the full Logos 6 compared to a small and nimble app is noticeably different. But I'm sure that's a surmountable challenge.

JoshInRI

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/694435#Comment_694435

Go for it dudes (and any ladies working with you)!!!!

SteveHD

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/694444#Comment_694444

I hope to see a feature added. There is a blog post about how to download specific items on your Logos App for Apple. I have the iPhone and it is nice to be able to only download what I need when disconnected. Can this same thing be added to the standard Windows Logos 6?

I have a Tablet with window 8.1 and as far as I can tell it will always try to download everything. Since I do not have enough storage I have to hide resources to keep the size down. I would much rather be able to have the option to search for resource and select download all to get what I want stored locally and leave the rest in the cloud, available when I am on Wifi.

For reference the post I am talking about is Take Your Logos-Edition Books Everywhere https://blog.logos.com/2015/02/take-your-logos-edition-books-everywhere/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+LogosBibleSoftwareBlog+%28Logos+Bible+Software+Blog%29

If this is already an option please let me know. Thanks

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/694458#Comment_694458

If this is already an option please let me know.

In the full Logos environment (Windows / Mac) you can't currently just download a subset of your resources.

Daniel R Bartholomew

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/694458#Comment_694458

I hope to see a feature added. There is a blog post about how to download specific items on your Logos App for Apple. I have the iPhone and it is nice to be able to only download what I need when disconnected. Can this same thing be added to the standard Windows Logos 6?

I have a Tablet with window 8.1 and as far as I can tell it will always try to download everything. Since I do not have enough storage I have to hide resources to keep the size down. I would much rather be able to have the option to search for resource and select download all to get what I want stored locally and leave the rest in the cloud, available when I am on Wifi.

For reference the post I am talking about is Take Your Logos-Edition Books Everywhere https://blog.logos.com/2015/02/take-your-logos-edition-books-everywhere/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+LogosBibleSoftwareBlog+%28Logos+Bible+Software+Blog%29

If this is already an option please let me know. Thanks

[Y]

Agreed; this would be a good option, as the library for many of us is beyond the capabilities of the HD of many windows tablets.

Dan Francis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/694473#Comment_694473

In the full Logos environment (Windows / Mac) you can't currently just download a subset of your resources.

This item is a major hurdle to doing a possible universal program, also the indexing of the main program might be an annoying thing on a phone or low end tablet. Also I am not sure if Logos would be compatible with the Universal program, if it is compiled in the proper language are all extra kits used in the creation available on the mobile platforms. I am not a program just trying to pint out out it maybe far easier said than done.

-Dan

Bradley Grainger (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/694458#Comment_694458

I have the iPhone and it is nice to be able to only download what I need when disconnected. Can this same thing be added to the standard Windows Logos 6?

See https://community.logos.com/forums/t/100284.aspx

Matthew McMillan

Please don't make the Logos 6 program more touch friendly. I use the Surface Pro 3, but Logos is a large program meant for desktop and laptop work. I also have an RT and Windows Phone 8.1. Mac doesn't have touch capabilities, and android/iPad already have awesome apps. Your market for Logos 6 is basically touch windows devices, many of which will be incapable of running such a large and heavy RAM consumption program.. But, if you made a universal Windows 10 app you would satisfy those Windows users, making all the smaller and less powerful windows tablets happy, while not making changes for desktop and laptop users. Please consider a great app versus changing the engine of a powerhouse program.

JoshInRI

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/694473#Comment_694473

I own the original Surface Pro using 8.1 and hope one day to upgrade for free to Windows 10 when it is stabile and offered.

I would be glad to help test your rollout.

Bart Sipes

I sincerely hope you will resubmit higher quality universal apps in the future. I'm not sure how you have built out your iOS and Android apps but if you design them right you could share code between then and a universal Windows app using C++ or .NET code with tooling from Xamarin which I have personally worked with. I know this takes time and effort, but I really hope you will consider doing this soon.

Bohuslav Wojnar

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/698024#Comment_698024

I sincerely hope you will resubmit higher quality universal apps in the future. I'm not sure how you have built out your iOS and Android apps but if you design them right you could share code between then and a universal Windows app using C++ or .NET code with tooling from Xamarin which I have personally worked with. I know this takes time and effort, but I really hope you will consider doing this soon.

Yes please, [Y]

glorybound9

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/693075#Comment_693075

Kevin, I experienced the problems with the SD card also. After much experimentation, I have been able to get Logos to run quite well from my microSD card on ASUS VivoTab Smart. I tried installing the Resouces on the SD card, but Logos crashed trying to load and index the library. The solution came with Windows 8.1, the ability to create a VHD on the microSD card. Installing the entire Logos program to the microSD card worked, then. Also, I got the highest quality, fastest microSD card available - Samsung 64 GB SDXC Pro card, though Sandisk now has a slightly faster card. I re-located my Documents, Pictures, Videos and Music folders to the microSD card to preserve space on the SSD drive. It is necessary to create a Start-up task in task scheduler to launch the VHD as Windows will not do this automatically. I run Evernote from my microSD card also and I don't recommended letting both programs try to update their databases at the same time. Logos indexing on VivoTab is still faster than any XP machine I used Logos on. Initial indexing took about 5-6 hours.

Daniel R Bartholomew

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/699488#Comment_699488

Kevin, I experienced the problems with the SD card also. After much experimentation, I have been able to get Logos to run quite well from my microSD card on ASUS VivoTab Smart. I tried installing the Resouces on the SD card, but Logos crashed trying to load and index the library. The solution came with Windows 8.1, the ability to create a VHD on the microSD card. Installing the entire Logos program to the microSD card worked, then. Also, I got the highest quality, fastest microSD card available - Samsung 64 GB SDXC Pro card, though Sandisk now has a slightly faster card. I re-located my Documents, Pictures, Videos and Music folders to the microSD card to preserve space on the SSD drive. It is necessary to create a Start-up task in task scheduler to launch the VHD as Windows will not do this automatically. I run Evernote from my microSD card also and I don't recommended letting both programs try to update their databases at the same time. Logos indexing on VivoTab is still faster than any XP machine I used Logos on. Initial indexing took about 5-6 hours.

Thanks for the tip, glorybound9--I'm right now re-installing Logos on my WinBook per your instructions. I'm following this guide to creating the VHD: http://superuser.com/questions/692151/on-windows-8-particularly-on-tablets-with-a-permanently-inserted-micro-sd-card I really hope this ends the whole issue with having to re-copy the resources every time there's an update.

Daniel R Bartholomew

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/700493#Comment_700493

FYI, glorybound9's solution worked! My WinBook now can index Logos on the Micro SD drive!!! [Y] [Y]

I do love my new WinBook, and Logos works great on it. FWIW, it's a 32-bit machine and even runs old games like one of my favorites of all time, Civ 2. [;)]

JAL

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/701300#Comment_701300

FYI, glorybound9's solution worked! My WinBook now can index Logos on the Micro SD drive!!!

Thank you Daniel, and glorybound9, please continue to report.[<:o)]

I also have Logos 6 installed on the same model WinBook tablet and I'm enjoying the experience. I haven't needed this solution but am glad to hear about it.

Jason Drake

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/698024#Comment_698024

I totally agree. I just bought a new HP Stream 7 Windows tablet and I love it and plan to upgrade to Windows 10 in a few months. I also own a Lumina smartphone which I will be updating to Windows 10. A universal app from Logos that would allow me to access my full library from the cloud on both of these devices would be perfect! Please make this a priority... there are over 1.5 billion Windows users out there and most of them will make the switch to (free) Windows 10. Although I love using the desktop PC version of Verbum/Logos I can't haul my big desktop PC to Bible study, etc. A lightweight universal reader app for Windows 10 is needed!

Geertruida Selter

Well this sums up the problem I encountered today. The app doesn't function any more, just goes into a loop of signing in to the library, and when trying to re-install, it couldn't be done. So much for Microsoft. Since I had the app on my note book, does the download for android work on this? I like to read some of my books in reader format, rather then in the Logos 6 format.

Daniel R Bartholomew

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/704403#Comment_704403

Well this sums up the problem I encountered today. The app doesn't function any more, just goes into a loop of signing in to the library, and when trying to re-install, it couldn't be done. So much for Microsoft. Since I had the app on my note book, does the download for android work on this? I like to read some of my books in reader format, rather then in the Logos 6 format.

Sorry to hear your troubles, Geertruida!

I gave up on the app, but got a cheap WinBook tablet that runs the full version in a package about the size of an iPad mini (at about 1/3 of the price). This may not be the best solution, but I like it. If you already have an iPad or Android, though, I believe those apps would be good choices--they're far more capable than the Windows store version. I prefer having the full version, however.

Jason Drake

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/704406#Comment_704406

Good news folks, Faithlife has set up a Community Pricing page for developing a high quality Windows universal app. Let's please make this a reality so that we can have a high quality app for all Windows 8/8.1/10 devices (phones, tablets, laptops and desktops). Please check out: https://community.logos.com/forums/t/102025.aspx and then help support this development effort!

Thanks and God bless!

Diego Lara

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/705782#Comment_705782

Faithlife is now planning on creating a high quality Windows Universal App! Finally! Please visit that link that Jason Drake posted and make your bid so that Logos can see how many of us Windows users exist and will support the creation of a new app.

David Ogg

Why can't they leave the app in the store until there is something to replace it? An app with poor functionality is better than no app at all. As for "the cost of fixing" the problems I can't help but wonder where all the money went that I spent just on the last two Logos crossgrades. About $700 I think for v.5 and v.6 which for the most part looks and behaves like v.4 did. That money should have been to keep the programming current, not for authoring new content or funding other Faithlife ventures. That is a huge amount of money to shell out for software especially if the software/apps I use to read my books isn't actually being maintained and upgraded.

TCBlack

We are removing the Bible! and Vyrso apps from the Windows Store. We’ve heard your feedback (both on the forums and in Store ratings) that they lack the level of quality and features you expect (and that we want to deliver).

More importantly, the apps don’t currently function as simple readers because they are unable to open many of the latest resources (but instead display a blank screen).

When evaluating the cost of fixing these problems, we decided that it would be better to focus on improving touch support in Logos 6. Several of our developers own a Surface Pro 3 (and use it regularly at church) so we understand the problems with using Logos 6 on a tablet.

We don’t have any announcements about touch improvements in Logos 6 yet; when we do, we’ll post them in this forum.

P.S. Here’s what removing an app from the Windows Store means, according to Microsoft:

People who don’t have your app can’t download it, or even find its listing in the Store. (If they follow a direct link to your app, such as from a website, they'll see the listing for your app, but they won't be able to get it.)

People who have already installed your app can still use it or even reinstall it. However, they won't be able to make in-app purchases.

I am sad now. One of my elders overheard me say I was saving for a tablet and offered to give me his no longer in use Microsoft Surface, he's going to give it to me Sunday. I was hoping to install the app on it.

Sigh.

Justin Gatlin

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/864575#Comment_864575

We are removing the Bible! and Vyrso apps from the Windows Store. We’ve heard your feedback (both on the forums and in Store ratings) that they lack the level of quality and features you expect (and that we want to deliver).

More importantly, the apps don’t currently function as simple readers because they are unable to open many of the latest resources (but instead display a blank screen).

When evaluating the cost of fixing these problems, we decided that it would be better to focus on improving touch support in Logos 6. Several of our developers own a Surface Pro 3 (and use it regularly at church) so we understand the problems with using Logos 6 on a tablet.

We don’t have any announcements about touch improvements in Logos 6 yet; when we do, we’ll post them in this forum.

P.S. Here’s what removing an app from the Windows Store means, according to Microsoft:

People who don’t have your app can’t download it, or even find its listing in the Store. (If they follow a direct link to your app, such as from a website, they'll see the listing for your app, but they won't be able to get it.)

People who have already installed your app can still use it or even reinstall it. However, they won't be able to make in-app purchases.

I am sad now. One of my elders overheard me say I was saving for a tablet and offered to give me his no longer in use Microsoft Surface, he's going to give it to me Sunday. I was hoping to install the app on it.

Sigh.

The Cloud app may be your best option.

Bernhard

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/864576#Comment_864576

As long as this is not a Surface RT, the full Logos version should run on it, but that is still not very touch-friendly (but workable).

TCBlack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/864592#Comment_864592

Thanks Bernhard, it is the surface RT.

Oh well, the Lord will give me a plan I'm sure.

TCBlack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/864576#Comment_864576

The Cloud app may be your best option.

Yup. I was thinking that too.