Is it really the Encyclopedia Britannica as we might of thought?

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This post has 261 Replies | 21 Followers

Posts 306
Bruce Roth | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Oct 6 2015 5:36 PM

I don't want to stir up the pot here, but I wonder if what we have is not the real thing that some expected. 

If you take a look at the Resource directory you may have a clue to the source of the data.  The file name is COMPTONSENCY.logos4 and it is a size of 275,647 mb on my pc.  Slightly larger than the ESVSB which is 217,672 mb.

I poked around and see that Britannica has a license to distribute Comjptons. Here is the web page from Britannica that describes Comptons:

http://www.britannica.com/topic/Comptons-by-Britannica

Also I am not seeing many photos just quickly scanning the text.  Are images in Logos resources embedded in the resource or are they stored somewhere else?

If you look around at Amazon you can see references to a 26 volume set and I was wondering if this is what the basis for this resource is.  It would appear that it is a set designed for high school students.

I think the resource would be helpful and interesting and may be worth the initial pre-pub price. 

I have the Britannica DVD but don't have it loaded.  I might load that up and check some of the articles against that source.

Posts 13399
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 6 2015 5:59 PM

Bruce Roth:
Are images in Logos resources embedded in the resource or are they stored somewhere else?

There's a separate resource for the videos: logosres:comptonsencymedia (note the resource name!).

 

Posts 133
Robert | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 6 2015 7:04 PM

The file names are suggestive, even conclusive. It would have helped enormously in creating proper expectations, if the Comptons derivation had been part of the narrative from the outset.

Grace and peace. <><

Posts 9181
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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 6 2015 7:31 PM

Bruce, whatever we got is not the Encyclopedia Britannica. 

Compare the article on Aristotle to the online version. There is no comparison. We have the junior, junior, condensed and dumbed down version.

Faithlife, there were many questions from the start about what you were trying to sell. That should have given you pause to check what you were offering and make it abundantly clear. Instead, we got a screenshot of one portion of an article two or three days ago. That wasn't enough to go on. I kept faith, but have lost it all now. 

I assume you will plead ignorance or something else, but selling this as the Encyclopedia Britannica is a disgrace.

Yes, I will use my right to return my purchase, but I am ashamed of FL right now. How could you NOT know that what you were delivering doesn't even begin to compare with what we see online?

Please do the upright thing and remove this resource from sale until you can straighten out what you are selling and then title it and describe it correctly.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 6 2015 7:32 PM

Bruce Roth:

I poked around and see that Britannica has a license to distribute Comjptons. Here is the web page from Britannica that describes Comptons:

http://www.britannica.com/topic/Comptons-by-Britannica

This is disturbing. I already have Compton's on CD and I did not give $99 for it. (More like $10.)

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Posts 1395
James Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 6 2015 7:46 PM

 

Super.Tramp:
This is disturbing

"designed primarily for children and young people in the upper elementary grades and high school and for family use"

I'm going to just wait and see what Faithlife says but I'm really biting my tongue on this one...

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Posts 1890
mike | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 6 2015 7:49 PM

Just need to point this out in bold...

" a general reference designed primarily for children and young people in the upper elementary grades and high school "

Posts 654
David Bailey | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 6 2015 7:54 PM

That's..that's a bit shocking.  When FL announced this product some months ago, I was very excited.  I grew up using a complete set of EB for many years and thought this would be a dream come true to have the FULL version of it in Logos. However, when I noticed that very little information was actually shown about this pre-pub and the pre-pub price, I began to wonder if this is an edited version to only include articles pertaining to the study of the humanities and biblical / theological / philosophical subject matters.  Still, that sounded pretty cool to have in Logos.  I eventually dropped my pre-pub because I really wanted the complete edition of the EB, and a most current version too.

The pre-pub price indicated to me that it had to be a scaled down version of EB.  Sounds like what was released was even less than an condensed version?

David

Posts 2843
Mike Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 6 2015 7:58 PM

If I was a gambler, I'd bet the farm that Logos / Faithlife will make this right.  One way or the other.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 6 2015 8:08 PM

Robert:
It would have helped enormously in creating proper expectations, if the Comptons derivation had been part of the narrative from the outset.

What is comptons?

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Posts 2594
Jan Krohn | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 6 2015 8:09 PM

The articles in the kids encyclopedia look very familiar...

http://kids.britannica.com/comptons/article-9272668/A-a

Tongue Tied

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Posts 5615
Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 6 2015 8:18 PM

alabama24:

Robert:
It would have helped enormously in creating proper expectations, if the Comptons derivation had been part of the narrative from the outset.

What is comptons?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compton's_Encyclopedia

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Posts 1890
mike | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 6 2015 8:42 PM

Posts 5290
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 6 2015 8:52 PM

Mark Smith:
Compare the article on Aristotle to the online version. There is no comparison. We have the junior, junior, condensed and dumbed down version.

That has been my view from reading the few articles I have... Noet is aimed at humanity students and I don't see this being much use beyond elementary school. 

-Dan

EDIT: From the release page: “The Noet edition is unlike anything we’ve ever done before and represents a significant step forward for Encyclopaedia Britannica,” said Michael Ross, senior vice president and general manager of education at Encyclopaedia Britannica, Inc. “Noet offers the most advanced way to study the humanities, and Britannica offers some of the best reference articles available. Together, we’re helping students, teachers and researchers all over the world gain greater access to the trustworthy information they need.”

I find it bizarre to think these articles were written by the same people who have done the in depth articles from the encyclopedia.

EDIT2: From separate thread emphasis mine: 

Jan Krohn | Forum Activity | Replied: Today 8:57 PM

I'm pretty sure now it's this kid's edition:

http://kids.britannica.com/

I created a trial account with a fake address, and compared three full articles. EBNE is identical, just less links and less pictures.

Posts 912
LogosEmployee

Hi all, 

Just wanted to put a quick note out here before heading to bed:

The file name comes from some confusion we had when we first licensed the product. There was a thought that we had licensed the Compton's version but later learned that it wasn't. However, it was too late to change the file names.

I plan to address some of the other concerns first thing in the morning.

Director, Bible Study Products Department

Posts 5290
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 6 2015 10:31 PM

Ben Amundgaard:
I plan to address some of the other concerns first thing in the morning.

I perhaps should wait but this seemed a prime example:

Foucault, Michel

(1926–84). French structuralist philosopher Michel Foucault was born in Poitiers. He studied in Paris under Marxist philosopher Louis Althusser and later taught at the University of Clermont-Ferrand from 1960 to 1968 and the Collège de France from 1970 to 1984. His early work concerned the history of mental illness and society’s response to it. Madness and Civilization (1961) is a study of society’s use of the concept of madness in the 17th century. Discipline and Punish: The Birth of the Prison (1975) is an examination of the origins of the modern penal system. His books argue that asylums and prisons are society’s devices for exclusion and that by surveying social attitudes toward these institutions, one can examine the development and uses of power.


“Foucault, Michel,” Encyclopedia Britannica Noet Edition (Chicago, IL: Encyclopaedia Britannica, 2015).

This is an embarrassing short article on a very important 20th century figure from the humanities, it is extremely short compared to the wikipedia preamble pasted below.

Michel Foucault (French: [miʃɛl fuko]; born Paul-Michel Foucault) (15 October 1926 – 25 June 1984) was a French philosopher, historian of ideas, social theorist, philologist and literary critic. His theories addressed the relationship between power and knowledge, and how they are used as a form of social control through societal institutions. Though often cited as a post-structuralist and postmodernist, Foucault rejected these labels, preferring to present his thought as a critical history of modernity. His thought has been highly influential both for academic and for activist groups, such as within post-anarchism.[2]

Born in Poitiers, France, into an upper-middle-class family, Foucault was educated at the Lycée Henri-IV and then at the École Normale Supérieure, where he developed an interest in philosophy and came under the influence of his tutors Jean Hyppolite and Louis Althusser. After several years as a cultural diplomat abroad, he returned to France and published his first major book, The History of Madness. After obtaining work between 1960 and 1966 at the University of Clermont-Ferrand, he produced two more significant publications, The Birth of the Clinic and The Order of Things, which displayed his increasing involvement with structuralism, a theoretical movement in social anthropology from which he later distanced himself. These first three histories exemplified a historiographical technique Foucault was developing called "archaeology".

From 1966 to 1968, Foucault lectured at the University of Tunis, Tunisia, before returning to France, where he became head of the philosophy department at the new experimental university of Paris VIII. In 1970 he was admitted to the Collège de France, membership of which he retained until his death. He also became active in a number of left-wing groups involved in anti-racist campaigns, anti-human rights abuses movements, and the struggle for penal reform. He went on to publish The Archaeology of KnowledgeDiscipline and Punish, and The History of Sexuality. In these books he developed archaeological and genealogical methods which emphasized the role which power plays in the evolution of discourse in society. Foucault died in Paris of neurological problems compounded by HIV/AIDS; he became the first public figure in France to die from the disease, and his partner Daniel Defert founded the AIDES charity in his memory.

-Dan

Posts 1082
Martin Folley | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 6 2015 11:10 PM

Hi Ben.

I would like to know why some of the articles do not seem to be cross-referenced. Where I am concerned, as are others, about the level of detail within the articles, I am also concerned about its usability as a logos resource.

For example:

Abbado, Claudio

(1933–2014). Italian-born orchestra conductor Claudio Abbado succeeded André Previn in 1979 as principal conductor of the London Symphony Orchestra (LSO), a group he had  ...

 Encyclopedia Britannica Noet Edition, 2015.

This snippet refers to Andre Previn. Previn also has an entry in the encyclopedia, and yet this reference is not hyper-linked to that entry. I could not simply click on Andre's name and go there, nor hover to see the article quickly. The very next article, 'Abbas,  Mahmoud' talks about the PLO. Again, the PLO have an entry but it is not linked.

I saw a thread mentioning that full integration with the timeline tool had not happened yet ... Is this linking/tagging also a WIP, or is this how we would expected the resource to work ?

Thanks.

2010 17" MBP with High Sierra, iPad4 with iOS10.

Posts 655
Ted Weis | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 7 2015 12:08 AM

Jan Krohn:

The articles in the kids encyclopedia look very familiar...

http://kids.britannica.com/comptons/article-9272668/A-a

Tongue Tied

Here's an example. Very similar.

Posts 13399
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 7 2015 2:16 AM

I just tested 10 randomly chosen articles on the Britannica website. The articles I got from Comptons all matched the content of EBNE:

As others have said the only difference is that the Noet edition has less media and fewer links (see that Castiglione and Duncanson articles for examples).

I simply do not understand why Faithlife has allowed this to happen. The content is clearly written for children, not for adults. The selection of articles clearly does not have Noet users in view.

If this product had been called Encyclopaedia Britannica for Teens (Logos Edition), or Comptons by Britannica, Logos Edition there would have been very few complaints (apart from the missing links). I'm afraid it's yet another case of Logos marketing significantly overblowing a new product to the point that many purchasers feel there has been misrepresentation. That harms Faithlife and the trust you work so hard to build up.

Even if you'd got carried away with the excitement of the initial marketing push, there was plenty of discussion about the content throughout the prepub period. Faithlife staff members were fully involved in that discussion, and had ample opportunity to mention the level of the articles and the link with Comptons. As someone else has said, the failure to do that now seems like smoke and mirrors.

We can buy Comptons for pennies. Of course the Logos edition has added value. From the marketing page: "Look up “John Calvin” in EBNE, find a reference to The Institutes, and with a click you’re taken straight to its full text." Really?

I know I can return the product and get my $100 back. I'll probably do that. But it will take longer to get my trust back.

Posts 2594
Jan Krohn | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 7 2015 2:42 AM

Mark Barnes:
We can buy Comptons for pennies. Of course the Logos edition has added value. From the marketing page: "Look up “John Calvin” in EBNE, find a reference to The Institutes, and with a click you’re taken straight to its full text." Really?

By the way, can anyone confirm the other marketing promises?

Look up a biblical person, place, event, or date range in the Timeline, and Logos pulls together information drawn from EBNE and other resources in your library. In a glance you’ll make new connections between biblical events, people, and places.

I don't have access to the timeline. I've been thinking about a base package that includes the timeline just because of the EBNE, but that's more or less moot now...

Encyclopedia Britannica Noet Edition includes contributions from notable scholars such as:

  • Melinda S. Meade
  • Eugene N. Parker
  • Alice Sanderson Rivoire
  • Christopher Sterling
  • John B. Wilmeth

Still searching...

Mark Barnes:
I know I can return the product and get my $100 back. I'll probably do that. But it will take longer to get my trust back.

Considering the fact that it will still take 7 years until both my kids are in middle school, I'm probably not gonna do that. But I'm still quite irritated...

I'm wondering whether FL is gonna able to sell a single license at full price now...

Past IT Consultant. Past Mission Worker. Entrepreneur. Future Seminary Student.
Why Amazon sucks: Full background story of my legal dispute with the online giant

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