Why is Logos 7 SOOOO SLOOOOOWWW?

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This post has 31 Replies | 6 Followers

Posts 1340
PL | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Mar 14 2017 8:18 PM

One year ago I purchased a Core i5 Windows 10 machine with 8GB of RAM. Logos 6 ran acceptably for a while.

Now, one year later, Logos 7 is barely responsive. Every click takes at least a few seconds to respond - changing tabs, closing a tab, opening a menu, jumping to a different Bible reference, doing a search, scrolling through a Bible... everything is slow, and it frequently goes into "Not Responding" mode for a few seconds and then snaps back.

Can someone help me figure out what is going wrong? Spending so much money on this platform and getting this kind of performance is extremely frustrating. Most simple (fuzzy) Bible searches I do with Google these days because they are instantaneous and accurate.

I'm attaching my log files and a screen shot of my simple layout as well as my system specs.

Thanks,

Peter

3365.Logos Log Files (3).zip

Posts 13348
Forum MVP
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 15 2017 5:25 AM

I've looked through your log, and it is slow. Some of that slowness appears to be related to the speed of your PC, particularly the speed of the drive.

But you do have a lot of visual filters running in your Bibles and other resources, which seems to be the main problem. These visual filters probably return tens of thousands of results, which is inevitably going to take time. Are all your visual filters necessary?

Posts 1340
PL | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 15 2017 7:53 AM

Thanks Mark. I have all the visual filters turned off. I thought that will eliminate the impact on the system. Do I have to actually delete those visual filters?

Thanks,

Peter

Posts 7983
LogosEmployee

PL:
I have all the visual filters turned off. I thought that will eliminate the impact on the system. Do I have to actually delete those visual filters?

Just disabling them in the visual filters menu does not reduce their impact on the system. (We have a case to improve this behaviour.)

For a workaround that doesn't require deleting them, see https://community.logos.com/forums/p/133323/866528.aspx#866528

Posts 3160
Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 15 2017 8:50 AM

Bradley,

I read through the other thread and noticed it was from 2016.  Do you have an ETA on the case you created for this?  Just curious

Posts 1340
PL | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 15 2017 9:58 AM

Thanks Bradley.  I only have 6 VF's (2 of which set to All Resources, the rest set to My Top Bibles) and I have now changed them all to a resource I don't usually use.

I restarted Logos 7. It is marginally faster but not noticeably. 

I have SSD drive and Logos is installed on it. What else can I do to speed up the system? Do SSD's still need to be Defragged?

What else can FL do to make your flagship software less of a resource hog?

Someone in my church just started seminary and they require use of Logos. He installed Logos Basic. I asked him his impressions. And his first words?  "It's sooo sloooowwww!"

Posts 7983
LogosEmployee

As an experiment, can you enter "set custom chrome to no" in the command box at the top of the program? Does that improve the responsiveness of the application?

Posts 15805
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 15 2017 4:36 PM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

As an experiment, can you enter "set custom chrome to no" in the command box at the top of the program? Does that improve the responsiveness of the application?

Logos 7.5 RC 1 feels more responsive with Custom Chrome set to No while still having Red X when not responding.

With custom chrome set to No, can change tabs followed by scrolling up and down without delay. In contrast, custom chrome set to Yes has scrolling delays with non-responsive application.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 1340
PL | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 15 2017 7:10 PM

Observations:

- Regular ebook resources open in 2-3 seconds, even for the first time.

- It's my Bible panels that consistently take long to open. After first load, subsequent loads (changing from another panel back to a Bible panel) will be very fast, 1-2 seconds.

- All my Bible panels used to have visual filters, reverse-interlinear bottom pane turned on, and multi-view (2 Bibles side-by-side).

So this is what I tried:

- Set custom chrome to No.

- Turned off all visual filters and changed them to an rarely used resource (see above).

- Turned off the bottom reverse-interlinear pane on all Bible panels.

- Added a couple of Bible panes with single Bibles (no multi-view).

- Restarted Logos.

This is what I now get:

- About 45-50 seconds Logos startup time (did not reboot laptop).

- Single ebook resources continue to load fast.

- Most Bible panels load in < 5 seconds first time: ESV+NIV84, NIV+RCUV, RCUV only.

- First time loading CUV seems to be the culprit: average 11-12 seconds first time load, single view or multi-view with another version. Any ideas why?

I have to say, with these tuning steps, Logos feel more responsive and reasonably usable.

Thanks,

Peter

Posts 172
Philip Bassham | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 15 2017 8:03 PM

I am also frustrated with the speed, and I really like visual filters, but I see that it REALLY slows down my system, so I am wondering what the best practices are to limit the performance hit.

Obviously, limiting the # of resources, range, and search term helps to limit the hits.

What about other things?

1. For instance, would it help to put highlights all in one, comma-separated search string rather than in separated searches?

I.e. "God, Jesus, Father" -> Highlight

vs.

"God" -> Highlight

"Jesus" -> Highlight

"Father" -> Highlight

2. Is there a way to test the speed of individual filters to troubleshoot optimize the performance? What all would I need to look for in the logs?

3. Are certain types of highlight styles faster or slower? Or having a wide variety vs. a single style?

4. Ticking them on and off doesn’t change them from running? I think that may be my main problem. I think changing how this works would help a lot.

5. Does switching the search range to Apocrypha for Bibles that don’t have that effectively turn it off, or does it still run? That seems to be an easy workaround for Bible searches without deleting them if that range will help accomplish that.

6. Do personal notes and highlight pallets cause a big performance hit similar to visual filters?

7. Propositional outlines is basically an extensive visual filter? I see that that slows things down similar to visual filters.

8. What does 'set custom chrome to no' actually do? Any downsides to this?

9. Is showing multiple resources in the same column slower than having linked panels?

I'd like to figure out what is causing my problems as well.

Posts 172
Philip Bassham | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 15 2017 8:12 PM

Philip Bassham:
switching the search range to Apocrypha for Bibles

Actually, this doesn’t work all that well since it removes it from the Visual filters menu and is forgotten.

Posts 7983
LogosEmployee
  1. The difference would probably be negligible but there might be a small (possibly imperceptible) speed improvement by running fewer queries (each with more terms). Obviously this only works if you're applying the same highlight style.
  2. Look for "Searching SingleResource for"; each VF query is timed and logged. Note that a specific query might be slow in your log because something else was using the disk while it ran; it might not be due to that query. You could open and close the resource a few times and see if the speed is consistently slow in the log.
  3. Don't know for sure; probably not.
  4. Agreed; this is something we'd like to fix (so VFs only have a cost when they're enabled).
  5. I don't think this would work as a workaround. Checking the log would show whether this stops the search from being run.
  6. If you have lots (tens of thousands of notes/highlights), then possibly yes. It can also depend on how many documents you have, how many notes there are in each document. It's hard to give a general guideline.
  7. If Propositional Outlines causes a slowdown (I haven't measured to see if it does), it will only impact your system if it's enabled.
  8. Turns off a non-standard Windows border around the main application window. Some users report that it also speeds up Logos 7 (though we haven't been able to reproduce that in house). Only downside is that the three main application buttons won't look as good and I think there may be some wasted space at the top of the main application window.
  9. I haven't measured this, so I don't know, sorry.
Posts 10126
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 15 2017 8:53 PM

Wow, thanks Bradley!! Now, my main window is peach, with just a hint of mauve ... like my other windows. After suffering with baby blue all these (8) years too.

Life is good. Maybe peach is faster, too. Libby is going to be so jealous.


Posts 172
Philip Bassham | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 16 2017 5:57 AM

Thanks for the quick reply. I messed with things today, and was able to find some optimizations for my VF's, but I also found that my big problem when scrolling was when I have the Propositional outline enabled.

When I turn that off, it solves most of my hangups. 

To reproduce, just turn on the Propositional outline view and scroll a couple of chapters. 

I don’t see anything in the logs related to this, but I definitely see the hangups.

When I compare my logs to PL, I see similarities in multi-view and the SyncManager.

When I turn off the propositional outlines, I see the SyncManager settle down and my computer speed up. I wonder if PL also is using the Propositional Outline view?

Posts 1340
PL | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 16 2017 6:57 AM

No, I haven't used Propositional Outline in a long time.

Peter

Posts 1340
PL | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 16 2017 8:21 AM

Through regular use of various Bible versions this morning, I have determined that the CUV is exceptionally slow compared to other versions (ESV, NIV, NIV84, RCUV).

Even after all Bible panels have been loaded and opened at least once, CUV is still taking longer to move to other Bible references:

  • CUV moving to another Bible reference: 6 seconds, and mouse scrolling is extremely unresponsive and lagging, even with the bottom RVI pane closed.
  • Other translations (ESV, NIV, NIV84, RCUV) moving to another Bible reference: 1-2 seconds, and mouse scrolling is extremely responsive and not lagging, even with the bottom RVI pane opened.

This may have started becoming a problem after the CUV was turned into RVI around Christmas time last year.

Can others confirm this performance hit with the CUV?

Faithlife, can you please look into this performance problem?

Thanks,

Peter

Posts 1340
PL | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 16 2017 8:28 AM

One other tuning step I took:

In Program Settings, I turned off Show Auto and Favorites Bookmarks, and turned off Show Search Bookmarks.

Didn't seem to make much difference. Grasping at straws here...

Posts 27560
Forum MVP
JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 16 2017 8:30 AM

PL:
Can others confirm this performance hit with the CUV?

This will be a very limited number of users in the forums, so I concur that FL will need to take a look into this. Tongue Tied

Have you tried rebuilding the index for this specific resource? 

OSX & iOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 431
Adam Olean | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 16 2017 8:56 AM

Hi PL,

You or others who are having performance problems can also check out the threads below for some additional (and overlapping) ideas.

Adam Olean:

Having many complex visual filters and collections can waste a lot of resources as well, even when they're not active.
To negate the impact of complex collections, I think the only option at present is to delete them. Some users have suggested using the collections to create tags before deleting them, as a kind of replacement.
As for visual filters, I recall Bradley Grainger saying that they can be redirected temporarily to a bible or resource that you do not use.
There has also been talk of having too many temporary and saved layouts as another drag on performance (at least on startups). I wonder what other documents could be slowing things down. Do highlights and/or notes use resources even when they're toggled off? What, if anything, else?
Some resources seem to have more problems than others (e.g., in my case, "1000 Bible Images").

https://community.logos.com/forums/p/134113/872265.aspx#872265 

Adam Olean:

In addition to the ideas in that thread, you can also try toggling off any unnecessary Sidebars and Content in the homescreen to see if that improves things. You could even try initially toggling everything off and then adding things back as desired, balancing performance and functionality.

https://community.logos.com/forums/p/135082/877977.aspx#877977

In the preceding thread, Mark Barnes boiled it down to three common factors on the software side of things (although there can of course be other problems):

Mark Barnes:

Usually slowdowns come from:
Too many, or overly-complex layouts.
Too many, or too broad visual filters.
Too many, or overly-complex collections.

Posts 431
Adam Olean | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 16 2017 9:03 AM

I also found breaking up an old, very large, pallet-specific note file (or document) into smaller, resource-specific note files greatly improved Logos 7's performance on my system, although I still have problems with some media resources and a few intermittent operations that I have to follow-up on when I have the time. It'll be easier now hopefully with my log files no longer being so busy. Unfortunately, breaking up note files in Logos is a tremendous pain because you can only drag one highlight or note at a time, as I recall.

Edit: You can check the visual filters menu for any of your open Bibles and resources to see how many "Notes and Highlights" documents are attached to any given resource. In my experience, the more notes, highlights, and documents that are connected to each resource, the worse Logos 7's performance will be. So, for instance, attaching a note to a biblical reference will connect that note and its whole document to many different resources that share that reference, which may eventually cause slowdown as your notes, highlights, and documents increase in size and number. It's probably best to keep most notes, highlights, and documents resource-specific (or even section specific for larger resources like biblical versions and editions).

I hope some of this information this helps!

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