Poor formatting in FL ebooks

Page 1 of 2 (31 items) 1 2 Next >
This post has 30 Replies | 2 Followers

Posts 484
Robert Neely | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Sep 28 2019 2:44 PM

Anyone else seeing formatting issues in FL ebooks?  Some things I see are seemingly random number sequences, large sections of text that are hyperlinked (instead of just verse and footnote references), missing chapter designators in verse references, footnote references that send you to the start of a chapter, etc.

I have had to return multiple books that are just too frustrating to use in Logos.  I would rather have the kindle version.

A couple of examples are below.  

The Gospel

J201697119ESUS’ GOSPEL (ΕὐΑΓΓΈΛΙΟΝ) IS the core message taught (εὐαγγελίζω) by Jesus (Matt 4:23; :35; :5; Luke 4:18, 43; :22; :6; :16; :1).

Elsewhere in this two-ways soteriology, there is a way of light and a way of darkness (2522281381649564818Matt 7:22–23; Luke 11:34–36).

26623191811136718914441301037512. Forgiveness is a divine prerogative (Exod 34:6–7;  Sam 12:13; Pss 32:1–5; :1–2, –9; :3; :4; Isa 43:25; :22; Dan 9:9; Zech 3:4; 1QS 2.9; CD 3.18; 20.34) and Matthew and Mark hint that the Messiah is included within this privilege 

The kingdom is the rule of God from heaven that the praying disciple will realize on earth as it is in heaven (262523222120191816131187212191843132411210964Matt 6:10, [13]). Jesus grants to his disciples the privilege to understand and be included within this kingdom 

A Biblical Theology of Hebrews

Jesus is both victorious as high priest and sympathetic to our weakness. The word “sympathize” (771395147574410συμπαθῆσαι) always includes an element of active help (Heb 4:15; :34).

Moses and Christ cooperate within God’s creation program to bring his house into Sabbath rest. God finished his creation of the world and stopped working on the seventh day (126344162117162523Gen 2:2; Heb 4:3–4). 

In the Mosaic covenant context, sin is divided into unintentional sins where atonement is available (196202120161412321724181523220102320205Lev 4:2; :1, 15, –23; Num 15:27, 29) and high-handed rebellion where covenant exclusion (Lev 18:29; :2–5, 18; :29–30) and death is the outcome (Lev 8:35; :1–2; :2–5; 2:9; :29–30; Num 4:15–20; :30–36; :22).250

Posts 484
Robert Neely | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 28 2019 2:54 PM

Here is a list of books purchased on FL ebooks that I have had to return within the past few weeks due to numerous formatting issues.  These are not cheap books, either, so I don't think it is a price issue.

Life of Christ    $54.18
Exploring Worship: Catholic, Evangelical, and Orthodox Perspectives  $10.80
Suffering and Evil in Early Christian Thought (Holy Cross Studies in Patristic Theology and History)   $16.50
Baxter's Explore the Book  $59.99
The Gospel of John: Theological-Ecumenical Readings  $18.15

It's a shame.  These are books I would like to have in my Logos library.

Posts 5315
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 28 2019 5:26 PM

All the time I see these problems when I use these eBooks. It’s a lucky dip as to what you get when you purchase one.

FL simply take the file from publisher and convert it. Links to bible verses are not checked and often point to the wrong bible verse because the file does not have the bible reference in full.  The automatic converter lacks intelligence to work out the correct bible verse. Similarly other formatting issues and problems with table of contents also arise because no human being is involved in the conversion process.

Posts 28997
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 28 2019 5:26 PM

Robert Neely:
Here is a list of books purchased on FL ebooks that I have had to return within the past few weeks due to numerous formatting issues.  These are not cheap books, either, so I don't think it is a price issue.

It's only an eBook vs. Logos format cost difference; eBooks go through an automatic process dependent upon the publisher to meet the standards so the conversion works; Logos books, Logos takes a more direct role in ensuring that the conversion works.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 484
Robert Neely | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 28 2019 6:48 PM

Well, if FL wants to continue putting out clearly inferior products, that is their prerogative. I am sure the process works great for romance novels, but it is clearly not up to the task for many books. 

I know I am not getting full tagging, but I do expect bible verse and footnote references to work, and the text should not contain large amounts of extraneous garbage.

The customer service people keep wanting me to tell them what is wrong with the books that I return. Now all I have to do is give them the link to this thread.

Tip: Be sure to review ALL ebooks purchased from FL within the 30 day return period.

Posts 219
MWW | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 28 2019 8:00 PM

The last ebook that I purchased (Know Your Bible--Expanded Edition: All 66 Books Books Explained and Applied) had scripture links from the book of Jeremiah that pulled up verses from James. I hope Faithlife improves their accuracy.

Posts 28314
Forum MVP
JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 28 2019 8:57 PM

Robert Neely:
clearly inferior products

Clearly inferior to what? 

OSX & iOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 844
Bill Anderson | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 28 2019 9:30 PM

JT (alabama24):

Robert Neely:
clearly inferior products

Clearly inferior to what? 

I'm assuming what the OP means is that Faithlife eBooks are clearly inferior to (1) Logos resources (which no doubt they are), and (2) the Kindle versions (what the OP says he would rather have than Faithlife eBook versions).

Posts 28997
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 28 2019 10:16 PM

MWW:
The last ebook that I purchased (Know Your Bible--Expanded Edition: All 66 Books Books Explained and Applied) had scripture links from the book of Jeremiah that pulled up verses from James

Usually one can figure out the algorithm used to find the "last reference" from this kind of error. I agree that they are a real pain .... sometimes Kyle can do something to fix them. But you should have been forewarned (warning: bad humor ahead) "Bible -Expanded Edition" should have at least 83 books (see Asdvadzashunch edition of the Armenian Church Bible ... remembering that the Armenians were the first Christian nation)GeekedBig Smile

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 28314
Forum MVP
JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 28 2019 10:29 PM

Bill Anderson:

JT (alabama24):

Robert Neely:
clearly inferior products

Clearly inferior to what? 

I'm assuming what the OP means is that Faithlife eBooks are clearly inferior to (1) Logos resources (which no doubt they are), and (2) the Kindle versions (what the OP says he would rather have than Faithlife eBook versions).

If so, I agree to #1, but not to #2. I have found some to be marginally better in formatting, never “clearly,” and never “more useful.” The one area where a kindle book ipurchase is “clearly better” is when you can acquire the audible version very cheaply 

OSX & iOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 5315
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 28 2019 10:52 PM

Sadly FL don’t care about these sort of errors. When it comes to eBooks FL the model is to take no interest in the accuracy of the links of Bible verses they output - its all the publishers fault. It has nothing to do with the business model they choose to adopt. It’s all on the publishers. It has nothing to do with the fact they have decided selling poor quality resources without being very clear to unsuspecting customers that is what they are doing is acceptable. It’s all the fault of the publishers and nothing to do with how FL processes the files they get from the publishers.

So you won’t see any improvement in the accuracy of links. If you want links that are accurate only purchase full Logos resources. 

To illustrate how little FL care about this they openly make a false claim on their website about the functionality of FL eBooks.

”Just tap a Bible reference in an ebook and see it in your prefer translation.”

No matter how you want to frame it, how much you want to blame publisher, FL is aware they do nothing to ensure the accuracy of these links yet still proudly make this claim.

MWW:

The last ebook that I purchased (Know Your Bible--Expanded Edition: All 66 Books Books Explained and Applied) had scripture links from the book of Jeremiah that pulled up verses from James. I hope Faithlife improves their accuracy.

Posts 2066
Forum MVP
Reuben Helmuth | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 29 2019 3:42 AM

Unfortunately, I don't think we'll see any major improvement to FL ebooks under the current model, see that their profit margin is super minimal. Occasionally, when there's a resource that's especially bad, some manual cleanup gets done, but that's the exception and not the rule.

This is where I would love to see a crowd-sourced solution that empowers (and potentially rewards) users to help improve the entire catalog!

Posts 484
Robert Neely | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 29 2019 5:34 AM

Reuben Helmuth:

Unfortunately, I don't think we'll see any major improvement to FL ebooks under the current model, see that their profit margin is super minimal. Occasionally, when there's a resource that's especially bad, some manual cleanup gets done, but that's the exception and not the rule.

Yes, I am not expecting to see any major improvements soon either (or ever) which is why I am now carefully reviewing all ebook purchases to see how bad they are.  I am returning books that don't make the cut.

Kindle will provide a better reading experience in a lot of cases and I have Logos open on my other screen for verse references. Not perfect, but works for me.

Posts 5315
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 29 2019 1:43 PM

Reuben Helmuth:

Unfortunately, I don't think we'll see any major improvement to FL ebooks under the current model, see that their profit margin is super minimal. 

This does not justify  the blatant false claims on their website and your comment only highlights FL’s lack on integrity on this issue. They make a claim not supported by their business model.

Posts 28314
Forum MVP
JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 29 2019 9:42 PM

DIsciple II:
Sadly FL don’t care about these sort of errors.

DIsciple II:
its all the publishers fault.

For clarification: FL has been more responsive in the past year about re-processing and correcting some resources when newer conversion schemes can create a better product. 

As for the "it's all the publisher's fault," that is true for some issues, but that has never been the claim about scripture hyperlinks. The publisher has nothing to do with it. The auto conversion process seems to work well when the reference is crystal clear (i.e. "John 3:16"). It does a fairly good job on references where the chapter & verse are clear, and the previous reference was in the same book (i.e. "3:17" for "John 3:17). It is mostly wrong when the reference isn't explicit in the immediate context and the reference is to a new book (i.e. "In his second work, Luke blah blah blah 3:18 [for Acts 3:18]). 

OSX & iOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 557
J. Remington Bowling | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 30 2019 6:43 AM

Sometime late last year (or early this year) a FL rep said on this forum that they were going to look into user contributions to tagging (formatting?) this type of stuff. 

Potato resting atop 2020 Mac Pro stand.

Posts 219
MWW | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 30 2019 8:01 AM
MJ. Smith:
(warning: bad humor ahead) "Bible -Expanded Edition" should have at least 83 books
Yes, but if 66 books were enough for Abraham, Moses and Jesus... then 66 books are enough for me. (More bad humor)
Posts 10901
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 30 2019 8:19 AM

JT (alabama24):

Bill Anderson:

JT (alabama24):

Robert Neely:
clearly inferior products

Clearly inferior to what? 

I'm assuming what the OP means is that Faithlife eBooks are clearly inferior to (1) Logos resources (which no doubt they are), and (2) the Kindle versions (what the OP says he would rather have than Faithlife eBook versions).

If so, I agree to #1, but not to #2. I have found some to be marginally better in formatting, never “clearly,” and never “more useful.” The one area where a kindle book ipurchase is “clearly better” is when you can acquire the audible version very cheaply 

We just got back from Hawaii, and I happily returned to reading an FL app'd book. I couldn't tell where I was (get my bearings). Somewhere about 2/3's thru. Grabbing the location slider was little help. Para 2,1, thank you very much.

I'll take a Kindle 99% of the time over an FL ebook (and a Logos just-read-it book). I gave up on the above book.

And I don't buy 'it came from the publisher, we just load it' silliness. Customers don't pay for bad product. Any more than the publisher 'metadata' sloppiness is ok on Logos.com.

"I didn't know God made honky tonk angels."

Posts 28314
Forum MVP
JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 30 2019 10:33 AM

Denise:
We just got back from Hawaii, and I happily returned to reading an FL app'd book. I couldn't tell where I was (get my bearings). Somewhere about 2/3's thru. Grabbing the location slider was little help. Para 2,1, thank you very much.

I have no idea what you are trying to say here. Tongue Tied

Denise:
I'll take a Kindle 99% of the time over an FL ebook (and a Logos just-read-it book).

For books which I want to read cover-to-cover, and for which I am not wanting to take notes, my preference is to read on a Kindle Paperwhite. That does not necessarily mean it has to be a kindle edition resource. I miss the "send to kindle" feature.

My prime reason for preferring everything to be in Logos (including FLEB titles) is for the books to be in my library. The ability to search, take notes, etc. is superior. 

Denise:
And I don't buy 'it came from the publisher, we just load it' silliness.

Again, it depends upon the resource and the issue. For example: It is common to have goofy product info from the publisher, which shows up on Kindle, Faithlife, etc. I love the "this volume comes with genuine bonded leather." Stick out tongue

OSX & iOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 10901
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 30 2019 12:22 PM

JT (alabama24):

Denise:
We just got back from Hawaii, and I happily returned to reading an FL app'd book. I couldn't tell where I was (get my bearings). Somewhere about 2/3's thru. Grabbing the location slider was little help. Para 2,1, thank you very much.

I have no idea what you are trying to say here. Tongue Tied

Clearly you don't read 7-8 books at the same time. I read until it bogs down. Then return later, when I'm bogged down in other books. On the Logos desktop, it shows you clearly where you are (TOC panel). On all my 4 versions of Kindle, it shows me where I am (TOC panel or literal TOC). But the FL apps, usually only the last major para and sub-para somewhere on the scrollbar. Ergo 'avoid FL apps'.

"I didn't know God made honky tonk angels."

Page 1 of 2 (31 items) 1 2 Next > | RSS