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Posts 27
Andrew Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 20 2011 10:19 AM

Michael,

Logos is in the process of putting together some Catholic oriented packages to give Catholics or those of the other non-Protestant traditions a more attractive and useful starting point. We are also working on providing more Catholic resources. Look for them soon!

Posts 93
Michael Gaskin | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 20 2011 11:35 AM

Thank you for the note.  I've been thinking about some of the content that would be helpful:

1. Church Fathers

2. Encyclicals

3. CCC and then you can click on the actual references and read. (like the book, Companion to the CCC).

4. Pontifical Biblical Commission documents

5. Doctors of the Church.  Maybe a collection of all their writings? Goodness, that would be awesome!

6. Vatican II documents, not just the final ones, but the drafts as well.  (Got a course on V2 coming up!!)

The neat thing about the above stuff is its freely available on the web.  I would be willing to pay Logos the fee to integrate it with their software, but it would seem to me that the cost would not prohibitive.

Thanks for your effort!

- Michael

 

 

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 20 2011 12:27 PM

Michael Gaskin:
The neat thing about the above stuff is its freely available on the web.

Note, however, that freely available on the web does not translate into public domain. Logos will still need to negotiate with the copyright holder in order to publish them. Even old documents frequently have the translation under copyright.

Please take into account that some of us have a significant investment in the current Logos - with many resources we never use. Give us a break on the resources to "upgrade" to a Catholic version. P.S. Some of us go back far enough to have had a Catholic version.

Finally, remember that Anglicans and Lutherans often don't think of themselves as "Protestant" - the ideal Catholic package would be one with which they are comfortable as well.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 5253
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 20 2011 3:52 PM

MJ. Smith:
Finally, remember that Anglicans and Lutherans often don't think of themselves as "Protestant" - the ideal Catholic package would be one with which they are comfortable as well.

 

That is my feeling (raised Lutheran , now Anglican), but I also know very many Lutheran and Anglicans who are fairly anti-Catholic. I was raised in a low church and among the various low churches of Anglican and Lutheran persuasion many more are anti-Catholic feelings run. I know I very much value the Alexandrian Canon of the Bible as it is sometimes referred to in the Catholic Church. The books of Wisdom and Sirach are among my favourites. I have often lamented on the lack of resources out there in logos on the deutrocanon. Some people seem convinced that owning works on it is tantamount to blasphemy. I even read one place about someone refusing to go after the prepub of Cambridge commentary because it contained them (only sirach wisdom and 1 Maccabees )... What some conservatives fail to realize is that the New Testament quotes, at least loosely (as most NT writers do with all of the OT), occasionally and provides invaluable background to the NT. Luther considered 1 Maccabees to be an accurate inspired history book and valued the all the books of the" Apocrypha"  as books of edifying reading, although not something one should draw doctrine from. 

I look forward to seeing what new offerings Logos will come up with for Catholic and like minded Christians.

-Dan

Posts 8893
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 20 2011 4:09 PM

Andrew Jones:
Logos is in the process of putting together some Catholic oriented packages

Great! (Except it's probably too late for me personally.)

Andrew Jones:
to give Catholics or those of the other non-Protestant traditions a more attractive and useful starting point

Only "Catholics and those of the other non-Protestant traditions"? Stick out tongue What about people like me then? Sad I hate being called "Protestant" -- but I can hardly be called non-Protestant either.

Yes, I'm mainly being cheeky, but I did want to remind you that there are also High-Church folks like me, for whom Catholic resources are far more relevant than even Luther (though I am supposed to be Lutheran -- another label I'm not too fond of), and certainly many times more relevant than most of the Evangelical stuff Logos currently fills their base packages with. 

Andrew Jones:
We are also working on providing more Catholic resources. Look for them soon!

Also great! (Except for my wallet.)

EDIT: Didn't realize MJ had already made my point about non-Protestants. Since she added it in later, it didn't show up in my e-mail.

And I certainly support her plea for a decent "upgrade" price as well.

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 93
Michael Gaskin | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 20 2011 4:35 PM

I suppose I should be more sensitive to the current owners of Logos, apologies...  

Agreed that there potential copyright issues to contend with, but it would seem logical that free copyrighted text would be cheaper than non-free copyrighted text...therefore, we should (hopefully) see reduced pricing.

- Michael

Posts 93
Michael Gaskin | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 20 2011 4:39 PM

Dan,

That's a bummer that people will not even read materials because they are deemed Catholic.  It would seem even if one does not take the text as inspired that one might find the text useful for its historical purposes. 

Take care.

- Michael

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 20 2011 6:38 PM

Dan Francis:
but I also know very many Lutheran and Anglicans who are fairly anti-Catholic.

Perhaps like my Finnish Lutheran Grandmother, an Irish Catholic mother-in-law could change some opinions.Wink

More seriously, one thing my Dominican teacher taught me was that for theology think Catholic publishers; for liturgy think Anglican publishers; for Scripture study think Lutheran publishers. Then they would point out at the Dominicans have frequently "faced East" (pro-Orthodox).

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 20 2011 6:42 PM

Michael Gaskin:
that free copyrighted text

What we don't know is if the Vatican / Bishop Conferences treat the material as "free" for commercial, non-Catholic publishers. I would hope so, but I don't have a clue as to the actual practice.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 93
Michael Gaskin | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 20 2011 8:25 PM

I've got to be careful here... You will pick apart anything I say, so... I'll just hope that whatever happens, Logos makes a good product at a fair price for all...and...making a reasonable profit so they can continue to provide us with excellent products.

- Michael

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 20 2011 11:26 PM

Michael Gaskin:
I've got to be careful here... You will pick apart anything I say,

My apologies, I didn't mean to pick apart what you were saying. I meant to bring caution to expectations. I agree that I should not have repeated my point.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 20
Jeremy Kritt | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 21 2011 3:36 AM

I am glad to see that my thread has generated some good discussion. Now that I have had several months to use Logos, I can honestly say that I think it is a very good piece of software. However, I felt like I spent too much money buying a higher-end package that had a lot of protestant devotional and pastoral materials. The problem was that I could not mix and match the packages enough to meet my needs as a Catholic user. 

Overall, I am very happy with the parts of Logos that I use. It is excellent for doing in depth study of the bible, and I like how I can pull up several translations (and originals) along with commentaries side by side. The search capabilities are great. It is clear, however, that Logos is mainly for non-Catholics. Here I point to diagrams of Jesus' family and other small things that really stand out to a theologically competent Catholic. Would a Catholic version of Logos also make modifications to these areas? Just a random thought...

Posts 2964
tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 21 2011 6:18 AM

Jeremy Kritt:

I am glad to see that my thread has generated some good discussion. Now that I have had several months to use Logos, I can honestly say that I think it is a very good piece of software. However, I felt like I spent too much money buying a higher-end package that had a lot of protestant devotional and pastoral materials. The problem was that I could not mix and match the packages enough to meet my needs as a Catholic user. 

Overall, I am very happy with the parts of Logos that I use. It is excellent for doing in depth study of the bible, and I like how I can pull up several translations (and originals) along with commentaries side by side. The search capabilities are great. It is clear, however, that Logos is mainly for non-Catholics. Here I point to diagrams of Jesus' family and other small things that really stand out to a theologically competent Catholic. Would a Catholic version of Logos also make modifications to these areas? Just a random thought...

Hi Jeremy,

I do want to make one minor correction.  I will say that base packages that Logos offers are not designed for "protestants,"  but I say that they are designed for the "white American conservative fundamental form of Protestantism." 

Posts 579
Jim VanSchoonhoven | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 21 2011 7:01 AM

Tom, why do you say "white  American"?  Can you show examples to back this up?

In Christ,

Jim VanSchoonhoven

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 21 2011 12:12 PM

While I agree with Tom that a significant portion of the base packages is of interest to a small subset of the Christian world, I would hope that Tom doesn't answer your question Jim because of the danger of providing an opening for some of our more vocally opinionated forum users. I would describe the subset somewhat differently than Tom but I suspect our descriptions would have a very high overlap.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 93
Michael Gaskin | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 21 2011 2:55 PM

MJ. Smith:

Michael Gaskin:
I've got to be careful here... You will pick apart anything I say,

My apologies, I didn't mean to pick apart what you were saying. I meant to bring caution to expectations. I agree that I should not have repeated my point.

All is good....  Take care!

- Michael

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 24 2011 3:02 PM

Jeremy Kritt:
Here I point to diagrams of Jesus' family and other small things that really stand out to a theologically competent Catholic. Would a Catholic version of Logos also make modifications to these areas? Just a random thought...

very interesting thought.  I wonder what they'd do about that?  Catholic/Protestant filter?

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 8893
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 24 2011 4:35 PM

Jeremy Kritt:
Here I point to diagrams of Jesus' family and other small things that really stand out to a theologically competent Catholic.

Then they would have stood out to me too if I had happened to look at them. I don't have Logos open right now, but I'll try to remember to check it out the next time.

Dan DeVilder:
Catholic/Protestant filter?

It's not a Catholic/Protestant thing; it's much later. If I recall correctly, Luther, Calvin and Zwingli all confessed to Mary's perpetual virginity. My church certainly did, until the Enlightenment, liberal theology, and modern secularization placed it in the "too embarrassing to preach" category, where it soon was joined by miracles, the virgin birth and the like. -- But we still sing medieval hymns about the "pure" Virgin at Christmas! Big Smile (Not that I would expect many people understand what they're actually singing.)

Dan DeVilder:
very interesting thought.  I wonder what they'd do about that?

Even in the Bible, we have two versions of Jesus' genealogy. No reason we can't have several versions of his family as well. In fact we should. (As long as they don't include the "married to/having an affair with Mary Magdalene" idea! Stick out tongue )

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 24 2011 6:31 PM

fgh

Think Mary for All Christians by Macquarrie, John or why we need a Jaroslav Pelikan collection. [For those who don't know Pelikan is a Lutheran scholar who sounded Catholic and became Orthodox]

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 93
Michael Gaskin | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 24 2011 7:27 PM

Michael Gaskin:

Thank you for the note.  I've been thinking about some of the content that would be helpful:

1. Church Fathers

2. Encyclicals

3. CCC and then you can click on the actual references and read. (like the book, Companion to the CCC).

4. Pontifical Biblical Commission documents

5. Doctors of the Church.  Maybe a collection of all their writings? Goodness, that would be awesome!

6. Vatican II documents, not just the final ones, but the drafts as well.  (Got a course on V2 coming up!!)

The neat thing about the above stuff is its freely available on the web.  I would be willing to pay Logos the fee to integrate it with their software, but it would seem to me that the cost would not prohibitive.

7. Sacra Pagina New Testament Series....  Request.

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